Sioux_Yeah_Yeah Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 If they are kicked out of school and they are found to be innocent.... what happens then? Do they have legal recourse againist the University for their dismissal from the football team as well as the university (due to lost scholly)? The University should let the legal system do what it does. Once there is a ruling the University should act. Until then I think that suspension is entirely appropriate. There is no need to kick them out of school and off the team. Rape is a very serious crime! I understand that not all 4 guys raped her, and that apparently it was consented with other 3. I believe, however, that the player who did rape her probably should be expelled (or SOMETHING should happen to him within the University soon). Since you're not a girl, I don't expect you to understand. But when a girl is raped, seeing the rapist could bring on flashbacks and wanting revenge, or depression leading to suicide (depending on how bad it was), among other things. Something should be done, that's all I'm saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSUguy Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Rape is a very serious crime! I understand that not all 4 guys raped her, and that apparently it was consented with other 3. I believe, however, that the player who did rape her probably should be expelled (or SOMETHING should happen to him within the University soon). Since you're not a girl, I don't expect you to understand. But when a girl is raped, seeing the rapist could bring on flashbacks and wanting revenge, or depression leading to suicide (depending on how bad it was), among other things. Something should be done, that's all I'm saying! You are right... I'm not a girl. I understand that there may be situations that occur with the alleged victim if she were to see him again, etc. That being said, he was not yet convicted of rape and I guess all i'm saying is that the University should learn from the Duke case. The media, school, community and nation (for that matter) all determined that the lacrosse players were guilty. It turns out that they did nothing illegal and they were s&!t on for that. In this case, what if there are details surrounding this that have not come out. What if the girl was fully aware and consented. What if this is totally made up by the girl. Now, let me say that I don't believe that this was made up. However, that doesn't mean that I will automatically pass judgement on these guys for something that as of now they have only accused of doing. This is a very tough decision for a university to make. There are rape cases that happen every year on campuses around the nation. In those instances, the accused do not generally get expelled from school. These guys will ultimately be kicked out of school because they will lose their schollys. Why should they be treated worse just because they are football players? Suspension from the team but they keep their scholllys until the case is resolved is a fair situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so.cal.sioux Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Have to say that I side with kicking the player out. This is not a court of law, this is a university. If the video tape is accurate, there is no other evidence that is needed. I think the accused player on the tape should not be given any slack. As for the other 3 players; If they knew that this was going on, which obviously one person did when he was recording, they should be expelled along with the aforementioned. If consent was given and they had no knowledge of the alleged assault, then I don't believe they should be expelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 A defendant is 'presumed innocent until proven guilty'. If I were on a jury and the only evidence presented was what was printed in a newspaper or reports on a news program, I would not vote that defendant guilty. While I believe these men are criminal sexual predators, those who raped and those who watched, I believe they should all have been suspended from the team and school. Once they are found guilty, kick them out. Our judicial system is not perfect, sad to say.... http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jul12/0,4...erTrial,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonW Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Have to say that I side with kicking the player out. This is not a court of law, this is a university. If the video tape is accurate, there is no other evidence that is needed. I think the accused player on the tape should not be given any slack. As for the other 3 players; If they knew that this was going on, which obviously one person did when he was recording, they should be expelled along with the aforementioned. If consent was given and they had no knowledge of the alleged assault, then I don't believe they should be expelled. Players get kicked off teams all the time for things that aren't against the law. How many times do players go away for lack of ability, lack of intiative, insubordination, violation of team rules. This type of behavior should be at least as serious as sleeping through meetings and missing workouts which can lead to expulsion. Some coaches and fans love to hide behind the legal system when it serves a purpose. I think Brewster sends a strong message that bad behavior is bad behavior irregardless of the criminal ramifications. I am reasonably sure if they are only guilty of disgustingly poor judgement another college will be happy to forgive and forget (if they are talented enough) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Players get kicked off teams all the time for things that aren't against the law. How many times do players go away for lack of ability, lack of intiative, insubordination, violation of team rules. This type of behavior should be at least as serious as sleeping through meetings and missing workouts which can lead to expulsion. Some coaches and fans love to hide behind the legal system when it serves a purpose. I think Brewster sends a strong message that bad behavior is bad behavior irregardless of the criminal ramifications. I am reasonably sure if they are only guilty of disgustingly poor judgement another college will be happy to forgive and forget (if they are talented enough) I think you just hit the nail on the head. They got kicked off the team because their actions were an black stain on the U of M football program. They broke their coaches trust and he took action. While kicking them out of school before the criminal case is concluded would be moronic, kicking them off the team was warrented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Duke ended up paying the students a 'settlement' after they were declared innocent by the State's Attorney. I still think suspension would have been the better option in this case. It gets them off the team and out of school and they can still be kicked out after they are found guilty by a court of law and not the public media. I agree with all, theses guys are scum and should be put away for a long time. It's the the UofM's process I disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 This isn't Duke and you know damn well that the school has seen the video. He will get his day in court and a well deserved 25 years of prison rape. But for now, get him as far away from the U of M as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 25 years! I wish!! The state will be lucky if he serves two given the way the penal system works these days. I don't know that the U has seen the video. My opinion doesn't differ from yours regarding their guilt. It does differ in how the U responded. There's no need to get pissy because we have differing opinions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudshockey Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 A defendant is 'presumed innocent until proven guilty'. If I were on a jury and the only evidence presented was what was printed in a newspaper or reports on a news program, I would not vote that defendant guilty. While I believe these men are criminal sexual predators, those who raped and those who watched, I believe they should all have been suspended from the team and school. Once they are found guilty, kick them out. Our judicial system is not perfect, sad to say.... http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jul12/0,4...erTrial,00.html The original 3 players sat and fed the girl shots all night....meanwhile, they didn't take a shot themselves. Why do you think they challenged that girl to drink that many? Hmmmm, I wonder if they just wanted to see her get drunk?? This was all planned. The guy that was most recently charged is a step brother to one of the original three that had sex with her earlier in the evening. How sick is that? Do you really want these type of people getting a free education at your university while other hard working students pay via loans. Guilty in a court of law determines jail time, but a university has the right to determine who is worthy of receiving services at their institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 This isn't Duke and you know damn well that the school has seen the video. He will get his day in court and a well deserved 25 years of prison rape. But for now, get him as far away from the U of M as possible. If charged with CrimSex 3 subdivisions c,d,g,h,i,j,k,l,m or n and proven guilty and with no criminal history score (no prior felonies, etc.) he would likely receive a 48-month prison sentence, unless there is a basis to depart from the sentencing guidelines, of which he would only serve 2/3 or 32 months with good behavior (the majority of inmates in MN satisfy the good behavior requirement, believe it or not). If charged with CrimSex 3 subdivisions a,b,e or f, and proven guilty and with no criminal history score he would not even be sent to prison, but could serve one-year in the county jail. In both cases he would have to register as sex offender and comply with those, along with other, sentencing requirements, but 25 years under the Minnesota sentencing guidelines is an impossibility. That being said, the prosecutors based the alleged victim's helplessness in part on her estimated BAC. That is likely where they will run into some problems as proving that will be quite difficult. It is easy to look at a person and say they appear intoxicated, but it becomes little more difficult to pinpoint someone's BAC based on observation alone. I represented a 110 pound, 21-year old female several weeks ago charged with DWI and her test result was a .33 and her booking photo could have been used as a high school yearbook photo, she looked that put together at a .33. The point is, appearance means very little a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 *Damn, I wish the folks who respond to my posts read them.* NO WHERE DID I POST THE SEXUAL PREDATORS SHOULD GO SCOT FREE! NO WHERE DID I POST I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DID WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS THEY DID! NO WHERE DID I POST THAT THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO TO SCHOOL! NO WHERE DID I POST THAT THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLAY FOOTBALL! NO WHERE DID I POST THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP THEIR SCHOLARSHIPS! NO WHERE DID I POST THEY SHOULD NOT BE ARRESTED! NO WHERE DID I POST THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MINGLE WITH THE MASSES! Geez Louise!!! The only difference in what my opinion is and that of the rest of you is It is my opinion the U should have suspended them not kicked them out of school at this time. After they are found guilty, (which given the evidence presented by the media, I sure hope they are), they can be kicked out of school. For those of you who think suspension means they can go to school and play football, here ya go suspension . 1. The act of suspending or the condition of being suspended, especially: a. A temporary abrogation or cessation, as of a law or rule. b. A temporary debarment, as from school or a privilege, especially as a punishment. c. A postponement, as of a judgment, opinion, or decision. debar 1. To exclude or shut out; bar. 2. To forbid, hinder, or prevent. It's MY opinion and I'm sticking to it. Flame away!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 It is easy to look at a person and say they appear intoxicated, but it becomes little more difficult to pinpoint someone's BAC based on observation alone. I represented a 110 pound, 21-year old female several weeks ago charged with DWI and her test result was a .33 and her booking photo could have been used as a high school yearbook photo, she looked that put together at a .33. The point is, appearance means very little a lot of the time. Yikes, she should be dead having a bac .33 at that weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yikes, she should be dead having a bac .33 at that weight. Cops here bring drunks into the ER for a 'medical screen' before taking them in jail. I have never seen the alcohol levels in my many years as a health care provider as I have here. I saw my first .521, the guy was conscious and trying to talk his way out of going to jail. I've seen little women with .3 to .4+s who look more tired than stupid drunk! The ER staff writes their guesses of ETOH levels on the board when a drunk is brought in. I lost consistently when I first got here. I'm getting better at guessing but still underestimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Just because I know you are all curious, I present the alleged myspace.com page of Dominic Jones, as mentioned on the 92KQRS radio show this morning in Minneapolis/St Paul... Dominic Jones' Page Just for the record, as of this past Monday, Jones had simply been kicked off the football team and remains on scholarship and enrolled at the U of M. I just wanted to straighten out some of the half-truths here that implied that he had been expelled from the university. Edited July 20, 2007 by MafiaMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 First of all, Dominic Jones has been kicked off the football team but remains in school untill a NCAA investigation is done. Then, with the approval of the NCAA his scholarship will be terminated. The U(as much as I hate that school)is going about this the right way to avoid being in the same place as Duke was. He is in his dorm room and is staying in school untill everything plays out. He might quit school once his scholarship is revoked but for now he is on school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Attending University on an athletic scholarship and playing football is not a right, it is a privilege granted by the institution at which the athlete is enrolled. When these athletes entered the program I'm sure they were made aware that their scholarships could be terminated for any number of reasons, including conduct which would bring the football program and University into disrepute. These athletes chose to abuse the privilege, they knew what they where doing was wrong, and if made public would certainly bring the institution into disrepute. They should be ejected from the program , and their scholarships terminated. The institution need not abide by the "innocent until proven guilty" standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennonIsTheMan Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Just because I know you are all curious, I present the myspace.com page of Dominic Jones, fine upstanding citizen... Dominic Jones' Page MafiaMan, It looks to me as though that is a made up myspace page that someone has created. I'm guessing it's someone trying to make him look bad. My guess is that the real Dominic Jones myspace page has more than 2 friends. But that's just how it looked to me and is just my opinion of course. I hope you won't get mad at me and flame me for having a difference in opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 MafiaMan, It looks to me as though that is a made up myspace page that someone has created. I'm guessing it's someone trying to make him look bad. My guess is that the real Dominic Jones myspace page has more than 2 friends. But that's just how it looked to me and is just my opinion of course. I hope you won't get mad at me and flame me for having a difference in opinion. I'm not mad at all, LennonIsTheMan. That very same web page was mentioned at length on today's 92KQRS morning show in the Twin Cities. In any event, I will revamp my original post to read as such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Just for the record, as of this past Monday, Jones had simply been kicked off the football team and remains on scholarship and enrolled at the U of M. I just wanted to straighten out some of the half-truths here that implied that he had been expelled from the university. I amend my opinion He should be suspended from school and should have been suspended from football for those same reasons cited by Sioux 7>5, The U(as much as I hate that school)is going about this the right way to avoid being in the same place as Duke was.After they are convicted, they should be formally kicked out and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Both suspensions keep him out of school and football and protect the U from paying out 'settlement' money, ala' Duke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Just because I know you are all curious, I present the alleged myspace.com page of Dominic Jones, as mentioned on the 92KQRS radio show this morning in Minneapolis/St Paul... Dominic Jones' Page Just for the record, as of this past Monday, Jones had simply been kicked off the football team and remains on scholarship and enrolled at the U of M. I just wanted to straighten out some of the half-truths here that implied that he had been expelled from the university. Wow, what a site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux_Yeah_Yeah Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Cops here bring drunks into the ER for a 'medical screen' before taking them in jail. I have never seen the alcohol levels in my many years as a health care provider as I have here. I saw my first .521, the guy was conscious and trying to talk his way out of going to jail. I've seen little women with .3 to .4+s who look more tired than stupid drunk! The ER staff writes their guesses of ETOH levels on the board when a drunk is brought in. I lost consistently when I first got here. I'm getting better at guessing but still underestimate. Oh man, I would be dead if my BAC was .3 or higher! That is really impressive with those BACs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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