what makes a "basketball town?"

[UND92,96]

It seems that in certain circles, Grand Forks gets bashed for attendance at last year's east regional and state class A basketball tournaments. As proof, read some of the comments to one of the recent blog entries from Fee or Bakken, or a thread at northdakotapreps.com. In my opinion, Fargo and Bismarck have something of a built-in advantage, since not only are they more likely to have more local teams in the tournament when they host (obviously they have more schools), but they're also a bit more centrally located. Obviously Bismarck is fairly centrally located for the whole state, while Fargo is much closer than GF for towns like Wahpeton, Jamestown and Bismarck-Mandan. My question is, what is realistic to expect from a host town in terms of drawing locals who have no connection to any of the teams?

It seems that Grand Forks does quite well as a host for the Region 2 class B boys and girls tournaments, because obviously the class B towns bring their own fans. I've attended all the Dakota Bowls the Alerus has hosted, and again I've felt attendance was pretty good since most of the teams travel well. State track always drew well in GF, again because a lot of people from out of town followed their sons/daughters/relatives who competed. My point is that I'm somewhat skeptical of any claim that Fargo and/or Bismarck is truly any more of a "basketball town" than is Grand Forks, at least in terms of drawing people with no real connection to a competing team. Granted, high school and college sports aren't necessarily an apples to apples comparison, but I look at Mary's basketball attendance, and it's terrible (500-something per game). UND historically draws as well or better than NDSU in men's and women's basketball. If these towns were really any more of a "basketball town," shouldn't that extend to college sports, as well? Or am I way off base here, and Grand Forks deserves criticism for not having thousands of people who will attend high school events if no local team is playing? Realistically, if Minot or Williston or Dickinson was playing Central or Red River in Fargo or Bismarck (and it was on tv), what would attendance be like?

[star2city]

It seems that in certain circles, Grand Forks gets bashed for attendance at last year's east regional and state class A basketball tournaments. As proof, read some of the comments to one of the recent blog entries from Fee or Bakken, or a thread at northdakotapreps.com. In my opinion, Fargo and Bismarck have something of a built-in advantage, since not only are they more likely to have more local teams in the tournament when they host (obviously they have more schools), but they're also a bit more centrally located. Obviously Bismarck is fairly centrally located for the whole state, while Fargo is much closer than GF for towns like Wahpeton, Jamestown and Bismarck-Mandan. My question is, what is realistic to expect from a host town in terms of drawing locals who have no connection to any of the teams?

It seems that Grand Forks does quite well as a host for the Region 2 class B boys and girls tournaments, because obviously the class B towns bring their own fans. I've attended all the Dakota Bowls the Alerus has hosted, and again I've felt attendance was pretty good since most of the teams travel well. State track always drew well in GF, again because a lot of people from out of town followed their sons/daughters/relatives who competed. My point is that I'm somewhat skeptical of any claim that Fargo and/or Bismarck is truly any more of a "basketball town" than is Grand Forks, at least in terms of drawing people with no real connection to a competing team. Granted, high school and college sports aren't necessarily an apples to apples comparison, but I look at Mary's basketball attendance, and it's terrible (500-something per game). UND historically draws as well or better than NDSU in men's and women's basketball. If these towns were really any more of a "basketball town," shouldn't that extend to college sports, as well? Or am I way off base here, and Grand Forks deserves criticism for not having thousands of people who will attend high school events if no local team is playing? Realistically, if Minot or Williston or Dickinson was playing Central or Red River in Fargo or Bismarck (and it was on tv), what would attendance realistically be like?

IMHO, Grand Forks is a UND town, period. Central and Red River HS sports don't get citizen spectators that other cities do because of UND athletic options. GF citizens are less likely to attend HS tournaments because they aren't into HS sports as much. As far as basketball, UND draws as well as NDSU (if not better, considering the metro populations).

Bismarck and Minot are much more into high school sports, so state tournaments create more excitement among citizens. When visitors come to the host city, they want the host community to be excited about the tournament. Bismarck and Minot provide that and their citizens are much more likely to take interest in the tournament, even if they don't attend.

Fargo is more of a bandwagon town- the "in" thing will draw. Fargo High Schools, much like GF HS's, don't travel well.

[CoteauRinkRat]

A "basketball town" is one that has no local high school hockey teams. Lots of the smaller towns that participate in Class B are what I would call basketball towns.

lol........i'll give you one thing DaveK.....your posts are always entertaining.

Once again, hockey and football are not the "only" sports. Believe it or not, people do actually like basketball, I know it is hard for you to believe.

[Siouxmama]

I agree with Dave. A basketball town is the one that has basketball and football as their main sprots. Class B schools come to mind. Minnewaukan, Bottineau, Mayville, Thompson and many co-op schools I dont know the names of. The whole town is there to back them up at games, and if they make it into regionals or state..the last one out of town, turns the lights off. You may see that in Grafton, too, but they are a hockey town first.

[CoteauRinkRat]

I agree with Dave. A basketball town is the one that has basketball and football as their main sprots. Class B schools come to mind. Minnewaukan, Bottineau, Mayville, Thompson and many co-op schools I dont know the names of. The whole town is there to back them up at games, and if they make it into regionals or state..the last one out of town, turns the lights off. You may see that in Grafton, too, but they are a hockey town first.

I agree with most of what you say, but towns like Bismarck, Minot, Williston, Dickinson have high school hockey and I think that basketball is a very popular sport there.

[siouxforeverbaby]

A "basketball town" is one that has no local high school hockey teams. Lots of the smaller towns that participate in Class B are what I would call basketball towns.

hey we are also football towns but no one pays any attention to that. BTW, same holds true for football playoffs when we go. Last one out, shut off the lights.

[FargoBison]

Fargo isn't a hockey town but it is also not a basketball town, it is probably a football town more then anything. The only hockey towns in ND are Grafton and GF. I also agree that GF shouldn't host EDC or state basketball, there just isn't enough support up there to host it and the location is poor. State should just rotate with Fargo and Bismarck and EDC should be played in the Fargo Civic.

[BisonMav]

Fargo is most definitely a hockey town. Ask the 8 to 12 year-olds in Fargo what sport they most like to play and the majority will say hockey.

Moorhead is a hockey town, but not Fargo. I will put money on it that if you ask all the 8-12 year-olds in Fargo, what sport they would like to play, they won't say hockey. Soccer would beat Hockey IMO.

[willistonsioux]

Williston has to leave a day early to get to fargo. The Fargo dome is way to spacey for a basketball game. Just have it in bismark basketball is a lot more popular out west then it is east. Just like the hockey state should be in the east. Sine hockey more popular in the east then in the west.

[FargoBison]

You would lose that bet. I happen to have two kids between the ages of 8 and 12, so I know what I'm talking about. Not only would hockey beat soccer, but it would be a 10 to 1 ratio at least. If Fargo wasn't a hockey town they wouldn't host the world's biggest Squirts tournament every year.

Fargo a hockey town?

Calling Fargo a hockey town is a disgrace to hockey towns everywhere, the sport has some support I won't deny that but Fargo has a long ways to go before it would be considered a hockey town. Heck, only one high school is a hockey school(Moorhead). South is a football school and neither North or West Fargo are hockey schools and the private schools are all pro basketball. Considering you raised your kids it is no suprise they like hockey but I am sure a lot of kids would say different, it is really hard to define Fargo as being pro any sport. Football is pretty much the only sport that has a case with South and West Fargo on the high school level and NDSU on the college level.

[FargoBison]

Williston has to leave a day early to get to fargo. The Fargo dome is way to spacey for a basketball game. Just have it in bismark basketball is a lot more popular out west then it is east. Just like the hockey state should be in the east. Sine hockey more popular in the east then in the west.

I remember back in 2002 Fargo South played North in the title game and North also played in a state title game not so long ago(05?). State A should rotate, basketball is plenty popular out east just keep it away from GF.

[BisonMav]

You would lose that bet. I happen to have two kids between the ages of 8 and 12, so I know what I'm talking about. Not only would hockey beat soccer, but it would be a 10 to 1 ratio at least. If Fargo wasn't a hockey town they wouldn't host the world's biggest Squirts tournament every year.

Fargo also hosted the world fastpitch softball championship, maybe Fargo is a softball town.

Start polling the kids of Fargo DaveK, you would loose. Unless of course you are polling kids 8-12 that already play hockey. My cousin has 3 kids that play soccer. Take a step back from the hockey culture and take an objective look at reality. Hockey is popular in Fargo, but Fargo is not a hockey town.

[UND92,96]

Realistically, if Minot or Williston or Dickinson was playing Central or Red River in Fargo or Bismarck (and it was on tv), what would attendance be like?

I guess we'll find out tonight, as Bismarck is playing Dickinson in Fargo for the championship. I don't think Fargo people will be flocking to that one. I'm sure there will be a lot of Devils Lake people there for the girls game, though.

[Matt]

These labels-football town/hockey town/basketball town-are nonsense. In only ten seasons (not even counting the '06-'07 season) the Redhawks have drawn over 1.9 million fans. Does that make Fargo a baseball town? People have many reasons for attending different sports in their city. I have three kids in soccer, basketball, hockey, and football. What bearing does that have on Fargo or Moorhead being a____town? I go to a lot of soccer games now, but when they are done playing I will never attend another soccer game in my life. On the whole, tying these city labels to such things is false logic. For some cities there are obvious traditions-Warroad, Roseau, Grand Forks-but these are the exceptions. One of the things I enjoy about living in the F-M area is you don't get pigeon holed in such things. There is a wide breadth of high level play, from amateurs (RedHawks to USHL?) to college and high school excellence to great youth organizations.

PS-As a Moorhead grad, I always enjoy seeing us referred to as a "hockey town". The state tourney appearances are something to be proud of. Yet until the early nineties that program stunk out loud. The first state appearance was '92. The football program and boys and girls track have won multiple state titles between them. Boys and girls basketball and volleyball have had many more state appearances than hockey, dating back several decades. In fact, the girls qualified again yesterday, and the boys play tonight. One could argue that since all that cumulative success is still dwarfed by the hockey team that Moorhead really is a hockey town, but as much as I love my alma mater, I still wouldn't still consider Moorhead one of those obvious exceptions. I think that has more to do with the state's love of the hockey tourney than anything else.

[dead_rabbit]

A "basketball town" is one that has no local high school hockey teams. Lots of the smaller towns that participate in Class B are what I would call basketball towns.

Is this why Sid Hartman claims that Minnesota is a basketball state, and not a hockey state?

[FargoBison]

I am not in touch with this issue? I graduated from South in 2004 and have lived in Fargo my entire life, I would say I am pretty well in touch. I don't know what the world's largest squirt tourney has to do with Fargo being a hockey town, Fargo has a ton of hotels and restraunts and is thus a good home for a big tourney. As Bisonmav said Fargo hosted a big softball tourney and I would hardly call Fargo a softball town. Fargo has also hosted the American Leagion World Series a few times and will again in a few years but I don't run around calling Fargo a baseball town. As for South it is kind of a bandwagon school, in my sophmore and junior years basketball was the sport and drew a lot of support. My senior year, South had a good hockey team and that seemed to be the sport to follow. Football has always gotten a lot of support and never really has the bandwagon problem and that is why I say it is the sport at south.

[BisonMav]

At the youth level it is huge in Fargo. If you don't have kids in youth hockey you wouldn't understand. Again, the world's biggest Squirts tournament would not be held in a non-hockey town. It's as simple as that. Perhaps you aren't as in touch with this particular subject as I am, that's fine. Just don't try to tell me I'm wrong about something that I happen to be very deep into with first-hand knowledge. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Fargo is on the same level as Grand Forks in youth hockey. Just because NDSU isn't a hockey school doesn't make Fargo not a hockey town. North and West Fargo may not be hockey schools, but South most definitely is. They are also very big on football, I'll give you that. I think it is fair to say football and hockey are 1 and 1A at South.

I've had kids in youth hockey, you have the fever bad. This has nothing to do with NDSU not having hockey. Fargo may be at the same level as Grand Forks in youth hockey, but Fargo has a larger population.