Grand Forks Central

[PartTime]

A very large reason Central won state a few years ago was open enrollment. The Lamoureux clan lives well inside the Red River district. I don't think they were the only ones on Central's team who did. And just to be clear here, nobody's saying you have to be rich to be a good hockey player. The point is more that if you come from a family where the household income is close to the national median--somewhere in the $45,000 range--you probably will be needing to make some pretty big sacrifices to be have your kid(s) play hockey. And some families do that, although probably not very many.

It's not like I'm saying that Red River's or Fargo South's accomplishments are somehow tainted, or that they have an unfair advantage. That's not my point at all. The point is that things have changed rather dramatically from the days when Central was "it" in North Dakota high school hockey on a routine basis. Again, if it's not the changing demographics of the north end of Grand Forks, then what is it?

I agree, the demographics of the North end of Grand Forks has changed over the years and Grand Forks continues to grow to the South. I'm thinking the only fair way to devide the city now, is an East/West split instead of a North/South split. But! there's still the open enrollment out there, so maybe that wouldn't work either.

[soohockey15]

What bushel are you living under? I know first hand that a RR hockey player who went on to play for the Goofs called a black hockey player from Jamestown the "N" word during a game. This same upstanding, respectful young man called the cheerleaders, among other things, the "C" word. He's the reason the cheerleaders refused to go to the state hockey tournament.

Don't start throwing stones when you live under a glass bushel. No school is better than the other but I have never heard of anything more racist or sexist happening at Central.

All I can do is laugh at your post, Cia. I agree with knowsall's post about Red River kids being disgraced by a few bad apples. Now, regarding the "incident"...the lastest I can think of this happening is around 2001. Am I surprised at this? No, not really, but you're singling out one person in an isolated incident that happened at least five years ago. I would be VERY suprised to see this incident happening with a Red River hockey player on this years team. They haven't had any "incidents" so to speak, while Central is known as one of the most undisciplined teams in the state. You made it sound like this is an everyday occurance at Red River, and within athletics at the school. That is flat out wrong.

[UNDhockey22]

I live well within the Fargo South district and I'm making huge sacrifices to keep my kids in hockey.

The game of hockey today is much different than it was 10 and 20 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, and less prone to injury than they were in the past. This is mostly because of advances in training, and the acknowledgement that it is necessary to train to become a top notch player. In the past, such training methods were not practiced. An NHL superstar once said "I'll start lifting weights when a dumbell scores a goal". If most players took that approach, it would not be long until they were laughed off the ice. With that said, it takes money to get the proper training. The wealthier the family, the more money they can dish out to support their training needs. This does not mean that all rich kids will be better hockey players than poor kids. It just means that rich parents have more opportunities for their players to improve, because the knowledge you need to train a player effectively is rarely held by the parent, thus you must pay someone for that advice.

[proudsioux]

you guys jsut find more excuses if ur team didnt make it to state. Im usre if RR didnt make it, their faithful would be like not fair, central is clsoer to purper or my team is so rich they jsut get spoiled ro some s&!t liek that. jsut grow up and face the fact ur team didnt make it.

[GeauxSioux]

The game of hockey today is much different than it was 10 and 20 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, and less prone to injury than they were in the past. This is mostly because of advances in training, and the acknowledgement that it is necessary to train to become a top notch player. In the past, such training methods were not practiced. An NHL superstar once said "I'll start lifting weights when a dumbell scores a goal". If most players took that approach, it would not be long until they were laughed off the ice. With that said, it takes money to get the proper training. The wealthier the family, the more money they can dish out to support their training needs. This does not mean that all rich kids will be better hockey players than poor kids. It just means that rich parents have more opportunities for their players to improve, because the knowledge you need to train a player effectively is rarely held by the parent, thus you must pay someone for that advice.

Back in the late 70's when I was in 9th grade we had a wrestling coach that had us lifting weights every day before school and running every day after school. He once equated wealth to laziness and that the kids at Schroeder were going to be the least conditioned and that the kids at Valley should be the most conditioned. I was at South, so were kind of in the middle. When we had the city championships that year, we came in as underdogs, but I won my weight class and South won the overall city championship, not because we were the most skilled, it had to do with conditioning. If it was all about skill, I would have gotten my butt kicked, because I was only in my second year of wrestling and the guy I faced in the championship was considered the best in that weight class. Money had nothing to do with it. You do need someone, a coach or trainer, to push you if you don't already have it inside of you.

[choyt3]

you guys jsut find more excuses if ur team didnt make it to state. Im usre if RR didnt make it, their faithful would be like not fair, central is clsoer to purper or my team is so rich they jsut get spoiled ro some s&!t liek that. jsut grow up and face the fact ur team didnt make it.

I haven't paid much attention to this thread, but this post must be the clincher that "Siouxrock" is again posting.

[UND92,96]

you guys jsut find more excuses if ur team didnt make it to state. Im usre if RR didnt make it, their faithful would be like not fair, central is clsoer to purper or my team is so rich they jsut get spoiled ro some s&!t liek that. jsut grow up and face the fact ur team didnt make it.

I'm really not even much of a hockey fan, so there's no need for me to be making excuses for any particular school or team. I am a sports fan in general, and as a life-long Grand Forks resident, I am interested in issues such as the demise of GFC hockey, and RR football. Granted, RR football doesn't have the history of GFC hockey, but they had some very good teams in the 1980's. I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating as to the reasons for the deterioration of these programs. I don't think it's purely a matter of chance.

[Sioux-cia]

All I can do is laugh at your post, Cia.

Glad to help out.

My point though has been lost to you. I don't believe the students at one school behave any better than another school. In the instance I referenced, one hockey player was MUCH WORSE than any hockey player in our city to date; of course that is to the best of my knowledge. Hopefully, no student athlete in our community, or elsewhere for that matter, feels so privileged that he or she feels they can act in such an inappropriate manner ever again.

[proudsioux]

I haven't paid much attention to this thread, but this post must be the clincher that "Siouxrock" is again posting.

whose siouxrock?

[choyt3]

Yours?

[proudsioux]

what?

[GeauxSioux]

Yours?

[UNDhockey22]

Back in the late 70's when I was in 9th grade we had a wrestling coach that had us lifting weights every day before school and running every day after school. He once equated wealth to laziness and that the kids at Schroeder were going to be the least conditioned and that the kids at Valley should be the most conditioned. I was at South, so were kind of in the middle. When we had the city championships that year, we came in as underdogs, but I won my weight class and South won the overall city championship, not because we were the most skilled, it had to do with conditioning. If it was all about skill, I would have gotten my butt kicked, because I was only in my second year of wrestling and the guy I faced in the championship was considered the best in that weight class. Money had nothing to do with it. You do need someone, a coach or trainer, to push you if you don't already have it inside of you.

You're talking about wrestling. We are talking about hockey. Hockey is a sport where there are few people who know how to train hockey players properly. There is probably no one that works at any high school in the state that knows how to properly train hockey players and will also do so for free. In this day and age hockey players don't want to be trained like wrestlers, football players, tennis players, soccer players, or long distance runners. Hockey players should be trained like hockey players (I gaurentee your wrestling coach did not know how to train hockey players). You can work very very hard on your own, and you still won't achieve the same success as someone who does not work as hard as you but they train smarter than you. Working hard, without working smart is a waste of energy. Ask any hockey player in the state what the most efficient way to recruit fast twitch muscle fiber is? They won't have the answer. Ask them why Alex Ovechkin can move his stick and his feet at the same speed at the same time. They won't have the answer. My bet is they would say "because he's really good". So who can tell you the answers to these questions. Not the players parents. So you can work as hard as you want but you won't be working effeciently. In the meantime someone else will be working just as hard but twice as smart and will dominate they player who is not training smart in every aspect of the game. So how do you get this advice? You pay someone to tell you.

[GeauxSioux]

You're right my wrestling coach didn't know how to train hockey players. He barely knew wrestling, but he did know how to train people to get the most out of them and when you got down to the end of the match you weren't the one sucking wind. Your opponent was.

Your original post talked about players getting stronger and faster and weight training and that is what I was responding to. What you are talking about now is skills training. You don't think that tennis players, soccer player, football players ... have skills training?

When you talk about high school coaches teaching skills, I would think that there are a couple of pretty coaches at RR in Malm and Chase that know how to teach skills.

Nothing beats hard work though. Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan are a couple of good examples that had skill, but their work ethic and training made them great.

[UNDhockey22]

You're right my wrestling coach didn't know how to train hockey players. He barely knew wrestling, but he did know how to train people to get the most out of them and when you got down to the end of the match you weren't the one sucking wind. Your opponent was.

Your original post talked about players getting stronger and faster and weight training and that is what I was responding to. What you are talking about now is skills training. You don't think that tennis players, soccer player, football players ... have skills training?

When you talk about high school coaches teaching skills, I would think that there are a couple of pretty coaches at RR in Malm and Chase that know how to teach skills.

Nothing beats hard work though. Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan are a couple of good examples that had skill, but their work ethic and training made them great.

I'm sorry but you still do not understand. To train hockey players you're workouts have to be integrated with specific movements that are related to how you perform on ice. I said that hockey players do not want to be trained like tennis players, soccer players, or football players. Do you believe that a hockey player is training properly by lifting weights like a football player, even if he is stickhandling and shooting pucks in his garage? I hope not. Weight lifting, sprint training, and endurance traing ALL need to be specific to hockey players. Not just "skills training" as you alluded to. In essence, everything a hockey player does is skill training. Matt Malm is a great coach I am sure. But he does not know how to develop a Alexander Ovechkin. If he did, Grand Forks Red River would never lose a game.

I am a huge advocate of hard work. But hard work will not get you far in this game anymore if you are not training smart. Because in due time for every player training hard, there will be a player training hard and smart. And it is easy to see which player will be the one succeeding in the end.

Anyway, I believe the point went to cost. The people who know how to train hockey players smart, rarely do so for free. That means you have to pay for it. Who can afford this training? The wealthy.

*This does not mean I believe poor families cannot have children who are very succesful in athletics.

[UNDhockey22]

If you are still unclear about my posts, as far as developing hockey players go, just ask. There are many different aspects of the game that need to be taken into consideration when training a hockey player. There are so many skill sets in this game it is difficult to figure what is the best way to train, so that everything you do, can correlate directly to improvements on ice. The difference in weight training in hockey is different from that of any other sport.