Irish hostile and abusive?

[Bacardio]

So, with that mentality, you think that H-Sioux-O, Siouxdogs, and Sioup, represent my people? This is where I really start to lose "how" this considered honor.

Well.. They honor it better than you do.

[PCM]

The fighting sioux logo is not based off of some mythical creature. It is not based off of a dead culture (like the illini, they were all killed by people who invaded their home land). It is based off of the Sioux people.

The Fighting Sioux name relates to the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota warriors who ruled the northern plains more than a hundred years ago. It's not a reference to the Sioux people today. It's a reference to the Sioux warriors who long ago fought to defend their land and their way of life.

How do I know this? Because I can look at the logo as a point of reference. The person shown in the logo is clearly an idealized, fictitious Sioux warrior. He doesn't look anything like you or the American Indians I see on campus every day.

The logo isn't intended to represent you any more than the Vikings logo or the Fighting Irish name is intended to represent me.

[fightonsioux]

Have you guys seen those trunk monkey commercials at the hockey games. Aren't they hilarious!!

Hold on for the rest of the year, I think they are going to come up with some really good commercials.

[Sioux-cia]

The problem is you can't see how ignorant YOU are.

It is not based off of a dead culture (like the illini, they were all killed by people who invaded their home land).

I know most of you that wear the Sioux jersey have absolutely nothing to do with the Sioux people, Believe me, this next year, hold on, its going to be a wild ride.

1. Why is is so difficult for you to post a response without insulting someone? It is so totally not necessary.

2. There may not be an Illini tribe but there are certainly descendants of the Illini. Just as there are descendents of the Aztec who by the way speak the Aztec language. I believe the number of Aztec speaking descendants numbers around 2 million.

3. Wearing a Sioux jersey does not a Sioux Lakota/Nakota/Dakota make the wearer of said jersey. Just as wearing an Oakland Raiders, Minnesota Viking, Dallas Cowboy, etc. jersey doesn't make you a Raider, Viking, Cowboy, etc. The jersey is worn by fans of those athletes who are known by their nickname/logo.

[Sioux-cia]

Have you guys seen those trunk monkey commercials at the hockey games. Aren't they hilarious!!

Hold on for the rest of the year, I think they are going to come up with some really good commercials.

I think PETA has petitioned the NC$$ to stop those commercials because they are demeaning to the monkeys. Or was it the Federation of Actual People who complained because the monkeys made they look stupid?

[fightonsioux]

My favorite one is the chaperone one.

Who is Cupcake?

[Somewhere in the Fescue]

I guess I still don't see how a nickname can be so offensive to one tribe and not to another. How can the Seminoles, Chippewas, and Utes all condone the name while another tribe apparently hates it. Funny enough, I see alot of Native Americans wearing fighting sioux apparel around the state. Is it the majority of the tribe that doesn't like it, or just a few with vocal opinions.

And yes, it is hypocritical to support the change of one human nickname and not all human based nicknames. They should all stay or all go. There is NO difference between the Fighting Sioux, Fighting Irish, Aztecs, Trojans, Cowboys, etc. But it seems that only "minority" groups seem to find these types of things offensive. Remember, White is not an ethnicity but a skin color. I am Czech-german american. Talk about a minority. But ultimately, the supreme court will decide the nickname issue, and it will be a blanket ruling.

[dagies]

The Fighting Sioux name relates to the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota warriors who ruled the northern plains more than a hundred years ago. It's not a reference to the Sioux people today. It's a reference to the Sioux warriors who long ago fought to defend their land and their way of life.

How do I know this? Because I can look at the logo as a point of reference. The person shown in the logo is clearly an idealized, fictitious Sioux warrior. He doesn't look anything like you or the American Indians I see on campus every day.

The logo isn't intended to represent you any more than the Vikings logo or the Fighting Irish name is intended to represent me.

Thank you, Pat. You've said this much better than I could.

[Goon]

The problem is you can't see how ignorant YOU are. We have no double standard. the Sioux nation, which I am a part of, has asked UND, Cupcake, and the SBHE to retire the name, plain and simple.

If you people who claim to be of irish descent want to take on ND, be my guest.

The fighting sioux logo is not based off of some mythical creature. It is not based off of a dead culture (like the illini, they were all killed by people who invaded their home land). It is based off of the Sioux people.

I know most of you that wear the Sioux jersey have absolutely nothing to do with the Sioux people, but we are here. (Of course, there are exceptions to this and those three Sioux fans that have spent time on a reservation will most likely respond to this).

Believe me, this next year, hold on, its going to be a wild ride.

So its safe to assume that your not going to the game tonight and tomorrow. Because the UND hockey team is going to be a awesome team in the nexts couple of years. I also think your right, Tom Bunning today basically said that if the meeting April 27th doesn't go well we will see the NCAA in court.

So your right it might be a wild ride.

[Sioux-cia]

So its safe to assume that your not going to the game tonight and tomorrow. Because the UND hockey team is going to be a awesome team in the nexts couple of years. I also think your right, Tom Bunning today basically said that if the meeting April 27th doesn't go well we will see the NCAA in court.

So your right it might be a wild ride.

I have it on good authority that GK will be taking his own wild ride through the court system very soon!!!

[Brainerd Sioux]

I have read alot of what has been said during this whole debate and never responded to any of it. But I must say if the native americans are so offended by the name and logo than why would they come to the school? Just a question.

[GrahamKracker]

The Fighting Sioux name relates to the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota warriors who ruled the northern plains more than a hundred years ago. It's not a reference to the Sioux people today. It's a reference to the Sioux warriors who long ago fought to defend their land and their way of life.

How do I know this? Because I can look at the logo as a point of reference. The person shown in the logo is clearly an idealized, fictitious Sioux warrior. He doesn't look anything like you or the American Indians I see on campus every day.

The logo isn't intended to represent you any more than the Vikings logo or the Fighting Irish name is intended to represent me.

But that's the problem. We aren't "history", we are here in the living presence. We are still defending who we are, we are still Sioux. I am so tired of hearing about the Vikings. Are you a Viking? Have you spent the last 2 years on a boat, burning and pillaging villages? No. I don't know of one Viking, anywhere. I don't know of anyone who wears the Viking horn hat anymore. But we, the Sioux, still practice our culture, the way it was don't 1000's of year before, we still sing the songs our ancestors did. And we are still fighters. I, like many of my Sioux relatives, have picked up a weapon, loaded munitions onto aircraft, or gave the ultimate sacrifice for this county. Yes, countless others have also, but I'm just saying that Fighting Sioux People still live today. Show me a true Viking. Show me a true Leprechaun. Then we we can discuss this in greater detail.

[GrahamKracker]

I think PETA has petitioned the NC$$ to stop those commercials because they are demeaning to the monkeys. Or was it the Federation of Actual People who complained because the monkeys made they look stupid?

I would think anything better could come from you. Now you are comparing my people to animals. That's intelligent.

[GrahamKracker]

I have read alot of what has been said during this whole debate and never responded to any of it. But I must say if the native americans are so offended by the name and logo than why would they come to the school? Just a question.

That's a good question. I, and this is the truth, didn't know this problem even existed until I step foot on campus. Do you think UND promotes this FS crap in ANY Native publications? No.

And do you think that 8 hours southwest of here anyone gives a rip about Hockey? No, again. If I could do it again, I wouldn't be here. I say this because I wanted the entire College experience. I wanted to root for my team, I wanted to attend games and tailgate, but do you think that'll happen here? Not on your life.

The level of education I have received on campus has been excellent. I have met many wonderful people. And like the pins I made last year state:

"UND

a great school, plagued by a racist name"

Its only a matter of time before we bring this to an end, though. I can guarantee that it will get worse before it gets better, but change is always difficult. But do you think that UND will be "less" of a team when the name changes? I don't

[PCM]

But that's the problem. We aren't "history"...

The fictitious "Fighting Sioux" warrior depicted in the logo IS history. Plain and simple.

[Sioux-cia]

I would think anything better could come from you. Now you are comparing my people to animals. That's intelligent.

Show me where in my post I compared the Sioux to animals. PLEASE, show me!!

[PCM]

Show me where in my post I compared the Sioux to animals. PLEASE, show me!!

Keep in mind that you're dealing with an extremely literal-minded person who thinks he's the guy in the Fighting Sioux logo.

[Sioux-cia]

Do you know what is 'intelligent'? Knowing that whatever I post on this forum leaves my address. What I post on this forum can be traced directly to my home and my computer. Isn't that intelligent! Wow. So when I post a message, send a PM, change my password and contact email address, that information can be traced directly back to me.

So if I'm going to post something, I make damn sure that it's not something I would be ashamed of. It's no secret who I am and what I do to anyone on this forum who wants to know. So again, I'm not going to deliberately or knowingly post something degrogatory or demeaning to anyone. So know full well, GK, that I DID NOT compare 'your' people to animals.

I know the definitions for libel and defamation and their context within the court system and how to defend myself within that same court system!!

[Sioux-cia]

Keep in mind that you're dealing with an extremely literal-minded person who thinks he's the guy in the Fighting Sioux logo.

No, he's not that guy, my older son is! I didn't realize it until this past week end. Really, you will have to meet him this week end!! He's one good looking kid man.

[NORGE]

But that's the problem. We aren't "history", we are here in the living presence. We are still defending who we are, we are still Sioux. I am so tired of hearing about the Vikings. Are you a Viking? Have you spent the last 2 years on a boat, burning and pillaging villages? No. I don't know of one Viking, anywhere. I don't know of anyone who wears the Viking horn hat anymore. But we, the Sioux, still practice our culture, the way it was don't 1000's of year before, we still sing the songs our ancestors did. And we are still fighters. I, like many of my Sioux relatives, have picked up a weapon, loaded munitions onto aircraft, or gave the ultimate sacrifice for this county. Yes, countless others have also, but I'm just saying that Fighting Sioux People still live today. Show me a true Viking. Show me a true Leprechaun. Then we we can discuss this in greater detail.

do you sit on the back of a horse and sleep in a teepee?

youre an american like it or not

[Goon]

I have it on good authority that GK will be taking his own wild ride through the court system very soon!!!

One man wrecking crew.

[Sioux-cia]

One man wrecking crew.

Nope, more like one WOMAN wrecking crew.

[GrahamKracker]

do you sit on the back of a horse and sleep in a teepee?

youre an american like it or not

Actually I DO ride horses, and I DO sleep in tipis. and I DO speak my language, and I DO practice my Lakota way of life. Why must being an american mean giving up who I am? Instead of attacking me, why not explain the whole leprechaun/viking thing to me.

[PCM]

Instead of attacking me, why not explain the whole leprechaun/viking thing to me.

It's been explained to you many times in many different ways. You either A) simply don't get it or B) are incapable of understanding it. I fail to see how that's our problem.

[Bacardio]

But that's the problem. We aren't "history", we are here in the living presence. We are still defending who we are, we are still Sioux. I am so tired of hearing about the Vikings. Are you a Viking? Have you spent the last 2 years on a boat, burning and pillaging villages? No. I don't know of one Viking, anywhere. I don't know of anyone who wears the Viking horn hat anymore. But we, the Sioux, still practice our culture, the way it was don't 1000's of year before, we still sing the songs our ancestors did. And we are still fighters. I, like many of my Sioux relatives, have picked up a weapon, loaded munitions onto aircraft, or gave the ultimate sacrifice for this county. Yes, countless others have also, but I'm just saying that Fighting Sioux People still live today. Show me a true Viking. Show me a true Leprechaun. Then we we can discuss this in greater detail.

As you are always bashing people about their knowledge of the "true" Sioux, such as yourself, it is amazing how lacking you are about the culture we talk about. You stupidity is overwhelming...

So here are a couple of culture diversity lessons for you.

1) Very few Vikings were raiding tribes or villages, and yes, they were referred to tribes. Most were traders. They traded items all over Europe, Africa and Asia. They traded a great deal with Orient. Most of the long distant traveling was done on land in caravans, not by boat.

2) Vikings never had helmets with horns.

3) Viking settlements still exist today, but are not known as "Viking settlement" due to the fact that their culture has evolved with time. The city of Kiev, along with many of the larger cities in that region were original Viking/Scandinavian trading settlements. Do they still do cultural things as their ancestors did. Yes they do. Do they claim to be Vikings; no they claim to be Ukrainian now.

Why, do they claim to be Ukrainian now? Why did my grandfather and his grandfather before him claim to be Canadian, rather then Viking? The same reason you claim to be Sioux, instead of Asian or European, were your true ancestors came from.

The one thing you seem to not understand, GK, is cultures evolve. You may ride horse, or sleep in a teepee, or serve in the armed forces (which as much as I despise you for your other traits, I truly thank you for) but that doesn't make you a Sioux of olden days. You don't ONLY live in a teepee, you do not migrate with the Bison, you don't farm and hunt solely for your food. You have a house/apartment/condo, which is stationary, you go to the store to get most your food.

Culture is nice GK, but it is also the past. Even if you could, you would never go back to the way it was 500 years ago. Don't try and fool yourself.