Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 UND can appeal the ruling, but if that meeting does not go well today and the tribes are against it then I would want UND to stop the fight. The reason I have been against the change in the past is that there has been no "clear" tribal objection to the name. Maybe that is because the media has kept that out of the papers and off the news, or maybe it's that they don't have one and the stuff that does come out is drummed up by only a few vocal minority. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You know how the saying goes..... "When the going gets tough....quit" What a sellout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Bobyck, you must have forgot where you stand on the issue. I'll help you remember: My reply answers your question directly. UND does enough. Why should they have to do more simply to keep the nickname. I care very deeply about the nickname. I would like to see UND keep the name, but if keeping the name means no playoff games, get rid of it. From a financial standpoint and simply a fan's standpoint, it would not be worth it if it meant not hosting playoffs. To get back to your question, you are stating a hypothetical situation. Why not help both sides instead of determining one winner? That is not the issue that we are trying to determine. That idea should have been thought of before this ruling came about. You have to concentrate on the issue at hand and that is if you do not drop the name, you do not host playoffs. Yes, I know the wording is fuzzy and there will be appeals, lawsuits, etc. But for right now, change your name or no playoffs. With the situation at hand, I would rather see the University of North Dakota "Fill in the Blank" host a playoff game rather than seeing the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux be barred from hosting the playoffs. You wanted UND to drop the name instantly when the NCAA ruling came out. Now, I'm saying that if indeed UND meets with the tribal leaders and they agree that they are totally against it UND should stop the fight. Why drag it on if they agree in the majority that they don't want it? Not sure why you blast me for saying maybe they should stop after all this when you wanted out as soon as the initial ruling hit the press. You know the saying, "Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" Crash, bang, smash...shattered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Bobyck, you must have forgot where you stand on the issue. I'll help you remember: You wanted UND to drop the name instantly when the NCAA ruling came out. Now, I'm saying that if indeed UND meets with the tribal leaders and they agree that they are totally against it UND should stop the fight. Why drag it on if they agree in the majority that they don't want it? Not sure why you blast me for saying maybe they should stop after all this when you wanted out as soon as the initial ruling hit the press. You know the saying, "Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" Crash, bang, smash...shattered <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you would read my other posts about that issue, I have stated that UND should fight the NCAA ruling by all means necessary. If all avenues have been traveled and nothing more can be done, UND needs to change the name. They should not change it just because of the meeting today like you have stated. Never did I want them to change the name immediately after the NCAA ruling came out. I said it back then and I will say it again, I want to see the name change ONLY if it means UND can never host playoff games. You spin the facts as well as Graham Kracker. Get it straight ESPNInsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 OTL is on ESPN in just a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 A few more quotes to refresh your memory of where you stand: This post was within a day or two of the ruling: Obviously this issue is not going to go away. In fact just the opposite. Why not make it easier on the school, the athletic dept., etc and change the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I like Max Osceola. I like what he had to say. Someone should tell Shelley Smith that it is the Stanford Cardinal, and not the Cardinals though. So far, I've only seen Native Americans that support the teams, and none that oppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 A few more quotes to refresh your memory of where you stand: This post was within a day or two of the ruling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 We're going to have to get a vice grip to get your nuts off the fence! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> real classy post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Those posts were written with the same premise in mind. If all avenues are traveled and nothing comes of it, UND has to change the name to allow for playoff games. I am not on the fence. That is where I stand. Spin it however you want. I am not the one that said we should change the name if the meeting today doesn't turn out an agreement between the school and the tribes. That would be a bump in the road, not a roadblock. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You say, "Why not make it easier on the school, the athletic dept., etc and change the name." That just doesn't seem like traveling all avenues to me. But, I'll go with what you are saying now. So do you think that if after the meeting today it is decided that the tribes are all against the name and that is based on a majority of people in the tribes that UND should continue to fight it? That's where to me it is crossing the line. The reason I've stood up for the name in the past is because I have yet to see evidence that there is a majority against the use of the name. If that evidence comes out, as I suggested in my original post that you blasted, then I feel UND needs to step down. How far should this go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 real classy post <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I'm with you on that one. Which to have on your side, the law or the NCAA? Hmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Which to have on your side, the law or the NCAA? Hmmm..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But would you guys want to take it to court if after today we knew that the tribes didn't approve of the use of the name? I'm thinking that's the reason the NCAA would reject the appeal. I just wouldn't want to see UND do that. Probably get a lot of bad press throughout the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Spirit Lake isn't going to make their decision today are they? The meeting in Bismarck involves a forum to discuss this issue, not the Spirit Lake Tribal Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Spirit Lake isn't going to make their decision today are they? The meeting in Bismarck involves a forum to discuss this issue, not the Spirit Lake Tribal Council. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not sure, I guess I thought that maybe they would come to some sort of conclusion today. But, perhaps this is just the beginning. I wonder if the NCAA is waiting to see what the tribes say? Hopefully the tribes and UND can work on building a relationship and good CAN come out of this. You know the NCAA may have done some good. This may ultimately strengthen/start the bonds between these schools and the tribes. That would really tick off these people who are trying to tell others what should and should not offend them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 You say, "Why not make it easier on the school, the athletic dept., etc and change the name." That just doesn't seem like traveling all avenues to me. But, I'll go with what you are saying now. So do you think that if after the meeting today it is decided that the tribes are all against the name and that is based on a majority of people in the tribes that UND should continue to fight it? That's where to me it is crossing the line. The reason I've stood up for the name in the past is because I have yet to see evidence that there is a majority against the use of the name. If that evidence comes out, as I suggested in my original post that you blasted, then I feel UND needs to step down. How far should this go? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My thinkings are.....If all other options have been exhausted, why not make it easier on the school & AD and change the name. They could be stubborn, keep the name, and no longer host playoff games or they can change the name. You decide. I would rather see the Alerus and the Ralph host playoff games then for us to have a nickname that we have to cover up anytime our team makes the playoffs. How far should this go? Well I have already answered that. Go as far as you can. If unsuccesful, then change the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 My thinkings are.....If all other options have been exhausted, why not make it easier on the school & AD and change the name. They could be stubborn, keep the name, and no longer host playoff games or they can change the name. You decide. I would rather see the Alerus and the Ralph host playoff games then for us to have a nickname that we have to cover up anytime our team makes the playoffs. How far should this go? Well I have already answered that. Go as far as you can. If unsuccesful, then change the name.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sorry, I just can't tell which one you want. Where does it stop that it makes it easy on the school & AD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I still think that the NCAA is wrong on making a decision to ban certain teams and not ban others. I'm not a fan of any of the Bush's but I do agree with Jeb's comment that it was a "really stupid decision" on the part of the NCAA. If the NCAA won't admit that they were wrong, let's let the courts decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I'm sorry, I just can't tell which one you want. Where does it stop that it makes it easy on the school & AD? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Both statements that you bolded are saying the same thing. Before the first statement you bolded it reads "If all other options have been exhausted." They are saying the same thing! You are running out of statements to spin. Do you work for CBS News? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 real classy post <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It may not be classy, but it sure is funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Both statements that you bolded are saying the same thing. Before the first statement you bolded it reads "If all other options have been exhausted." They are saying the same thing! You are running out of statements to spin. Do you work for CBS News? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If I'm working for CBS news then you must be an intern with the National Enquirer! How does that make it easy on the school and the AD? I'm not following you here. So you want UND to take this all the way to the end, fight it in the courts and exhaust all expenses to save the name and that will make it easy on the school and AD. But, if the playoffs are in jeopardy then they should drop the name? The statement I made that you originally bashed was that if it comes out that the tribes are all against the name then UND should not fight it. I don't feel that UND should go to court saying that the tribes don't "own" the name. Apparently you feel they should? Please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 But would you guys want to take it to court if after today we knew that the tribes didn't approve of the use of the name? I'm thinking that's the reason the NCAA would reject the appeal. I just wouldn't want to see UND do that. Probably get a lot of bad press throughout the nation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only way to know if the actual tribe doesn't approve is by vote, which doesn't seem likely to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Regardless of how this thing comes down (and I'm still betting the NCAA rejects UND's appeal) Kracker and KTF have already won: they've got BB and ESPNInsider fighting with each other. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Regardless of how this thing comes down (and I'm still betting the NCAA rejects UND's appeal) Kracker and KTF have already won: they've got BB and ESPNInsider fighting with each other. Sad. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If that's considered winning then JBB has a dynasty in the making. SiouxFootballField is also on his way to the Hall of Fame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I don't feel that UND should go to court saying that the tribes don't "own" the name. Apparently you feel they should? Please explain. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because they don't "own" the name and I believe in the First Amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldralph Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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