alum05 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Posted January 5, 2006 Dave K--get real. honestly. we all know that Fargo hockey has a long way to go to catching the status of Grand Forks hockey. I know South has a great team this year, i was happy they beat Moorhead. I think right now South has a very good chance of taking home that state title. But a bunch down the road, are you kidding me. Take a look at last years youth teams. Grand Forks Pee Wee A's went 42-0 and won the state tourney. Grand Forks Bantam A Wheatkings took home ANOTHER state title. This year Grand Forks' Bantam A teams are 5-0 and 4-1 in conference play, with that lone loss coming when the two teams played each other. So far looks like Grand Forks will take home another Bantam state title, what is that like 19 of the last 20? The Pee Wee A's from Grand Forks are 6-0 and 4-0 in the conference. Maybe another undefeated season? I dont know but i would say a state championship for a Grand Forks Pee Wee team looks ver very possible. Face it Dave K---Grand Forks kid dont know how to lose. I cant remember a Grand Forks team at any level (Pee Wee A, Bantam A, Highschool) to ever have a losing record. Most of these highschool kids have never lost more than 10 games a year. And i know you dont want to hear this, but Grand Forks kids love playing Fargo because they know have a great shot a beating them, and even more in post season action because Fargo usually folds under pressure. Take last year, Red River lost all year to South then completely dominated them in the State Tourney. Well i will wait for your reply--- Quote
SFSIOUX#1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 The Fargo Flyers A teams at the Bantam, Pee Wee, and Squirt levels almost never lose. They regularly beat anybody and everybody (including Moorhead and Grand Forks teams). The only time I see Fargo teams get beat regularly by GF teams is at the B level. I realize the GF zealots like to cling desperately to their status as having had the best high school hockey teams in the state for the past 40 years, but it's quite obvious to anybody who is not blinded by their loyalty to Central and/or Red River that the torch is in the process of being passed to South. Do yourself a favor and go watch the Fargo Flyers A teams the next time they come to GF, and then you'll begin to understand. When I played in Bantams (too many years ago to even admit) Fargo Flyers were supposed to win the Bantam title and in fact did win and everybody said "watch out as Fargo is going to kick the crap out of the GF schools at the HS level". It never happened as a GF school won the title every year Flyer kids were in HS. Like I said DaveK...past history will tell you a lot - you just choose to ignore. Quote
SFSIOUX#1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) I realize the GF zealots like to cling desperately to their status as having had the best high school hockey teams in the state for the past 40 years, but it's quite obvious to anybody who is not blinded by their loyalty to Central and/or Red River that the torch is in the process of being passed to South. I think with GF's past record of winning championships that they have earned the right to brag about their championships as oppossed to your comment of calling them zealots. You on the other hand, want us to roll over and anoint Fargo hockey as being superior. That is going to take years of sucesss before you earn that status but I wish you good luck. Edited January 5, 2006 by SFSIOUX#1 Quote
BringDeanBack Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 What happened? They were upset in the semis by an inferior team. That's why they play the games. I'm not saying South will win 6 consecutive state titles, but don't be surprised if they win 4 of the next 6 or 7 of the next 10. When was the last time a GF team beat the Moorhead Spuds, or even had the guts to play them? Fargo South has an above average team this year and Moorhead is rebuilding (still good but rebuilding). South barely beats them and all of a sudden people think that the balance of power is shifting to ND. As far as having guts, GF Central and RR have been playing Warroad forever. If I remember right, in 02-03 GF Central beat Warroad. It was one of only two losses on the year for Warroad, who did win the state title that year. Even with the victory, GF teams did not brag up the victory. That is the difference between GF teams and Fargo teams. GF teams are used to being winners and know how to handle success. Fargo teams are not used to winning and they get overconfident after one big win. As far as youth teams in both cities, I ask everyone not to compare records. I am worried that we will have to start listening about someone's kid that plays on a Fargo Flyers mini mini mite team that always beats Grand Forks teams, not to mention any names. Quote
SFSIOUX#1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 As far as youth teams in both cities, I ask everyone not to compare records. I am worried that we will have to start listening about someone's kid that plays on a Fargo Flyers mini mini mite team that always beats Grand Forks teams, not to mention any names. Now that is funny right there - I don't care who you are... Quote
Lucky_11 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 An article on espn.com Warroad High School edges Team USA women Associated Press WARROAD, Minn. -- The Warroad High School boys' team squeaked out a 2-1 victory over the U.S. Olympic women's hockey team Wednesday. Allen McBride's goal with 3:52 remaining -- a backhander past Team USA goalie Chanda Gunn -- proved to be the game-winner. "They were nice to put a team up against us that was spirited and you could tell by the reactions that it meant as much to those kids as it does to us," Team USA coach Ben Smith said. "Hockey is hockey. I think the people liked it. It seemed like a nice crowd and just a wonderful evening." About 1,500 people turned out for the exhibition game, which was non-checking. Kirk Olimb gave the Warriors a 1-0 lead at 13:58 of the first period when he put a shot from the high slot past Gunn. Natalie Darwitz scored Team USA's lone goal, at 4:26 of the second period. Darwitz's shot appeared to hit the crossbar, but officials -- after 3 more minutes of play -- conferred and ruled that the shot had gone into the net. That tied the game and set up McBride's game-winner. Warroad goalie Tyler Potts then stopped a couple of Darwitz shots in the final 25 seconds. Warroad held a 24-23 edge in shots. Quote
Hockey22 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 What happened? They were upset in the semis by an inferior team. That's why they play the games. I'm not saying South will win 6 consecutive state titles, but don't be surprised if they win 4 of the next 6 or 7 of the next 10. When was the last time a GF team beat the Moorhead Spuds, or even had the guts to play them? hmmmm....last time i checked, RR played White Bear lake last year and this year they play roseau Quote
SFSIOUX#1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 No they don't know how to handle success. Their sportsmanship is almost as poor in victory as it is in defeat. Can you provide details or examples of this or is it true just because you say it is true? Quote
soohockey15 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 hmmmm....last time i checked, RR played White Bear lake last year and this year they play roseau Ha ha ha ha, what? Dave, come on. Red River is (once again) a great team. Central is down, but they have won 2 of the past 3 state titles and are still looking like they could sneak into the state tourney. If we're going to start comparing high school teams to NFL teams, you missed one comparison. EVERY Fargo team = The Minnesota Vikings. They get everyone's hopes up during the regular season and make people think that THIS could be the year they win it, but they always end up disappearing come playoff time (Minot could also be included in this category). It's absolutely rediculous to compare the GF teams to the 49ers and Cowboys. When's the last time either of those teams won the Super Bowl, 1996? And Red River and Central have combined to win the past 3 state titles, 5 of the past 6, 9 of 11...do you see where I'm going with this? Before we start comparing high school teams to NFL teams that haven't won anything in the past ten years, let's do a little research. To say that "the days of GF dominance are over" is just plain wrong. Two of the top 5 or 6 defensemen in the state (Jarrett Galbreath and Ryan LaDoucer) are sophomores going to Red River. Red River has a deep, deep sophomore class that can only get better. Sure, Fargo teams can win state titles in the next 7 or 8 years (heck, maybe even THIS year) but to say that South will have a long run of titles is just plain ludacris. When you reply to this post Dave, do me a favor and take off those brown and yellow shaded glasses. Quote
X2theZ Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Fargo South has an above average team this year and Moorhead is rebuilding (still good but rebuilding). South barely beats them and all of a sudden people think that the balance of power is shifting to ND. As far as having guts, GF Central and RR have been playing Warroad forever. If I remember right, in 02-03 GF Central beat Warroad. It was one of only two losses on the year for Warroad, who did win the state title that year. Even with the victory, GF teams did not brag up the victory. That is the difference between GF teams and Fargo teams. GF teams are used to being winners and know how to handle success. Fargo teams are not used to winning and they get overconfident after one big win. As far as youth teams in both cities, I ask everyone not to compare records. I am worried that we will have to start listening about someone's kid that plays on a Fargo Flyers mini mini mite team that always beats Grand Forks teams, not to mention any names. Moorhead just took 2nd in the Gold division of the schwans cup, losing to the holy angles 3-2. I think it's safe to say that they reloaded fairly well. Quote
ND Pride Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 West Fargo isn't undefeated, they lost to Red River. I will most likely be at the RR-Central game tonight and I'm guessing I'll see a strong performance by the Riders. I just don't think that Central will have enough to be able to score with the Riders, especially on the top netminder in the state, Eli Rosendahl (Don't believe me? Check out this link: http://www.gfparks.org/ndaha/goalieleaders.html If you don't want to do that, I'll make it easy. Best GAA and best save %.) I'm expecting to see a Rider victory, 6-1. Eli Rosendahl - nice kid - he has the best statistics in the state right now. That proves....that he has the best statistics in the state right now. In my opinion he is a good goalie but just for the sake of analysis when analyzing statistics - if that is your basis for conclusions (e.g. top netminder) then you need to look at the underlying data that you use to calculate your statistics. I would not argue that South or Grafton have better goalies than Red River because I really don't care - but from an analytical perspective South and Grafton have played some teams that are tougher than those on Red River's schedule this year. South, as we all know, has played Moorhead and gave up 4 goals and also played in the Rochester Tournament against Minnesota competition - for what that's worth. Grafton has played Warroad and Osseo. Strength of schedule impacts statistics for goalies as well as other players on the team so I think if you are basing your conclusion totally on stats then you are on some soft ground in your conclusion. Rosendahl may well be the best goalie in the state - stats or no stats - I'm not sure. On the other hand the best goalie could be Hillman or Kringstad - it's too early to tell in my opinion. I think if it is true that the defensemen, especially the sophomores for Red River are as good as some say they are then it will be harder for Rosendahl to show how good he is - as would be the case for any goalie with good d-men in front of him. It will be interesting to see who ends up as the top goalie in the state as the season winds down - if that question can even be meaningfully answered given the many variables (quality of team mates, strength of schedule, etc) involved in determining who is the best. Quote
ND Pride Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Just to followup on the goalie stats issue - if you want to use stats as a basis for comparing players then it is best to standardize the analysis as much as possible to make the comparison valid ( apples to apples, etc). We can do that by comparing Goals Against for Red River, South, and Grafton goalies for EDC play only - controlling or standardizing on a "common" set of opponents. Just looking at goals against we have Sean Diechert first with 0.6 (3 goals scored on him), Rosendahl with 1.4 (7 goals scored on him), and Kringstad 1.8 (9 goals scored on him). Hillman has only played against South and had a 94.7% save percentage but let in 3 goals. Ell played against Jamestown and shut them out - assuming that Hillman would have done as well we would see him with a goals against of 1.5 in games against EDC teams - although only 2 games. My point with this is simply to point out that statistical calculations can be helpful to drawing conclusions but in some cases only gives the appearance of objectivity because of other factors that have not been taken into account in the analysis. Nothing against any of these players as they are all very accomplished. In the EDC, however, which is the most "scientific" way of calculating stats we have a different ranking of players than taking all games into account. Quote
Siouxhockey78 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Who's to say the South goalie would have those numbers if he faced more shots. Goalies tend to get the title of being great with really good defense. Fargo South does have really good defense which in return gives Sean not to many chances to make any saves. Grafton's Bantum A team is smoking this year...... Quote
Cratter Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 The Fargo Flyers A teams at the Bantam, Pee Wee, and Squirt levels almost never lose. They regularly beat anybody and everybody (including Moorhead and Grand Forks teams). The only time I see Fargo teams get beat regularly by GF teams is at the B level. I realize the GF zealots like to cling desperately to their status as having had the best high school hockey teams in the state for the past 40 years, but it's quite obvious to anybody who is not blinded by their loyalty to Central and/or Red River that the torch is in the process of being passed to South. Do yourself a favor and go watch the Fargo Flyers A teams the next time they come to GF, and then you'll begin to understand. You my friend need to seriously need to take another look around. You are barely worth this post. Talk is cheap and you do a lot of it. You back up nothing of what you speak with facts. You claimed South would win a championship last year cause once again they were "the best" and the '80s" dominance of GF was over, but I came back and proved FACTS that it was indeed not over blah blah blah the dominance is shifting blah blah blah anything to prove that? blah blah blah.....I will predict right now South will win the championship . People who cheer for the Grand Forks teams know how to win and are use to it, but they don't brag about how good their regular season is like certain people and teams. They are also smart enough to know anyone could win in the state tournament. I will once again bring up your favorite Fact: 1995 - Grand Forks 1996 - Grand Forks 1997 - Grand Forks 1998 - Grand Forks 1999 - South 2000 - Grand Forks 2001 - Grand Forks 2002 - Grafton 2003 - Grand Forks 2004 - Grand Forks 2005 - Grand Forks Quote
SFSIOUX#1 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Can you provide details or examples of this or is it true just because you say it is true? I didn't think so Quote
ND Pride Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Does anyone have high school scores from around the state tonight? Bob Gillen's site indicated that Red River and Central were tied 1-1 at one point in the game. Quote
doubleu Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Does anyone have high school scores from around the state tonight? Bob Gillen's site indicated that Red River and Central were tied 1-1 at one point in the game. Central and Red River were tied 1-1 in the third and North beat Shanley 3-0. First time Shanley has been shut out this year. Quote
He Who Shoots Top Shelf Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Score to report.... Fargo North upended Fargo Shanley 3-0 tonight at the Coliseum. North pretty much controlled the Deacons all night, I didn't see North-WF but I'm sure North must have played a better game tonight. Klenow played a nice game notching a goal. Welk also had a nice game although he wasnt tested much he came through and made a few dandies. Both Fargo South and West Fargo attended this game you could sense the animosity in the air as both sat in the same section . Shanley keeps struggling, really can't seem to put the puck in the net. It's tough watching this group of seniors whose season started out so promising start to slide. Sounds like the game up north turned into a good one hopefully we get an update soon. Quote
X2theZ Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 You my friend need to seriously need to take another look around. You are barely worth this post. Talk is cheap and you do a lot of it. You back up nothing of what you speak with facts. You claimed South would win a championship last year cause once again they were "the best" and the '80s" dominance of GF was over, but I came back and proved FACTS that it was indeed not over blah blah blah the dominance is shifting blah blah blah anything to prove that? blah blah blah.....I will predict right now South will win the championship . People who cheer for the Grand Forks teams know how to win and are use to it, but they don't brag about how good their regular season is like certain people and teams. They are also smart enough to know anyone could win in the state tournament. I will once again bring up your favorite Fact: 1995 - Grand Forks 1996 - Grand Forks 1997 - Grand Forks 1998 - Grand Forks 1999 - South 2000 - Grand Forks 2001 - Grand Forks 2002 - Grafton 2003 - Grand Forks 2004 - Grand Forks 2005 - Grand Forks I'm curious as to why you listed Red river and Central as "Grand Forks" instead of their respective names? I don't think that it is fair to compare Grand forks as a whole to other indiviual teams. Side note- I believe GF's 80's dominance ended when north won it's 3rd title in 6 years. Quote
BringDeanBack Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I'm curious as to why you listed Red river and Central as "Grand Forks" instead of their respective names? I don't think that it is fair to compare Grand forks as a whole to other indiviual teams. Side note- I believe GF's 80's dominance ended when north won it's 3rd title in 6 years. Because the argument is Grand Forks versus Fargo, not RR vs South or Central vs North. Also, I have not taken the time to research the numbers, but how does South compare in student size to the Grand Forks High Schools combined? Another thing to consider is what happens when Fargo builds another high school? Will South's limited success decrease even more due to dilution of the talent pool? Quote
ND Hockey Guy Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Here are the male student numbers for the Class A schools : (Taken from the NDHSAA website : http://ndhsaa.com/athletics/football/football_2005_07.pdf Fargo South - 1106 Minot - 981 Bismarck High - 873 West Fargo - 859 Bismarck Century - 788 Fargo North - 666 Grand Forks Red River - 639 Grand Forks Central - 622 Mandan - 543 Dickinson - 493 Jamestown - 437 Williston - 391 Devils Lake-Cando - 387 Wahpeton- 285 Hazen-Beulah - 285 Grafton-Park River - 238 Fargo Shanley - 176 Bottineau - 169 I'm not sure about the male student numbers from Breckenridge which co-ops with Wahpeton. Bismarck St. Mary's, I believe, also co-ops with Bismarck Century in hockey only, so your could add another 180 male students to their number (966 total.) Quote
hockeyman25 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I am sick and tired of you stupid Fargo people always saying that Fargo is better than GF teams. You people just need to realize that GF teams dominate at all levels. Red River and Central arent going anywhere. They both have solid sophmore classes. Last year in the Bantam Tournament GF won and the other GF team took 3rd, if they were in different brackets they probably would have matched up in the championship, and the team that took 3rd(Sugarkings) had two of there best players playing HS hockey, Alex Simonson and Jarrett Galbreath. You Fargo people can cry all you want about how you think GF refs cheat for Central and Red River, and all this other BS. Yeah, South is having a good year but all that matters is who plays there best in late Febuary. And may I also add that Red River has an outstanding sophmore goalie Pat Arnason that could play for over half the teams in the state this year. Quote
ND Hockey Guy Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Grand Forks Red River 2, Grand Forks Central 1 (Final in regulation) Quote
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