UND92,96 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I am curious as to why it's been several years since the men's track and field program has announced any signees. Obviously there are newcomers every year, but either they're not signing letters of intent, or else that information isn't released by the athletic department for whatever reason. It seems that for the most part, the better men's track and field athletes at UND have either been from this immediate area (Brad Lies, Jeremy Zimney, Aaron Berndt, Marc Sondreal, Mike Backes, Matt Gerszewski, Matt Litzinger, etc.), or else they came to UND primarily for football (Jason Cook, Drew Thomas, Donovan Alexander, Erik Moe and starting next year, Ryan Chappell). I know there are one or two current or ex-UND track athletes who post on this site. My question is, does Grandall do much recruiting? Does the lack of facilities make recruiting nearly impossible? I realize scholarship dollars are probably quite limited, and we all know that the facilities are sub-par, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps it's time for Grandall to hand over the program to someone who's a little hungrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxrunner Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I am curious as to why it's been several years since the men's track and field program has announced any signees. Obviously there are newcomers every year, but either they're not signing letters of intent, or else that information isn't released by the athletic department for whatever reason. It seems that for the most part, the better men's track and field athletes at UND have either been from this immediate area (Brad Lies, Jeremy Zimney, Aaron Berndt, Marc Sondreal, Mike Backes, Matt Gerszewski, Matt Litzinger, etc.), or else they came to UND primarily for football (Jason Cook, Drew Thomas, Donovan Alexander, Erik Moe and starting next year, Ryan Chappell). I know there are one or two current or ex-UND track athletes who post on this site. My question is, does Grandall do much recruiting? Does the lack of facilities make recruiting nearly impossible? I realize scholarship dollars are probably quite limited, and we all know that the facilities are sub-par, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps it's time for Grandall to hand over the program to someone who's a little hungrier. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This year at the track meet in Moorhead, much of the team was standing in the infield watching our pole vaulter, Clark Carlson, who was at that time going against another athlete from NDSU for first place (yes, we still compete against them from time to time), when we realized that not a single member of the team was "recruited" in the traditional sense. We started joking about being team 'NR' or 'No Recruit.' Tyler Stoltz, who has gone to the national meet in both indoor and outdoor multiple times, was not recruited. He actually contacted Grandall first. Lee DeKrey, the ND State Cross Country Champion, and who was one of the top conference performers in both track and cross country, was not recruited. Matt Litzinger, NCC javelin champion and now school and meet record holder, was approached by Grandall as a freshman in school the day before practice started. He did not come out until this year because of it, and proceeded to have a stellar season. Gersezewski was not recruited; Yates was not recruited; I can go on and on... The point is, Grandall does very very little recruiting. I ate lunch with one recruit two years ago, and it was the first official campus visit for a recruit since he has been head coach. I don't know of a visit since then (although there may have been one or two) I know that Grandall went on his first home visit in many many years just a year ago. I'm sure that the facilities we have at UND for track are not a positive as far as recruiting. I have heard that Kinsey Coles really wanted to come to UND, but decided to compete for the Bison because they have access to an indoor facility. UND 92,96 - you comment on how 'you all know the facilities are sub-par,' but just how bad I don't think you can realize without being on the team. Our locker room is easily the worst of any team here at UND...it is, to say the least, embarrasing. However, this does not excuse the extreme lack of effort. There are other points to sell the University on...good campus atmosphere, great academic programs, the chance to excel in a terrific conference. Our team has a great relationship between the athletes because we all are self-motivated...we have a decent outdoor facility as well. This is not meant to be a personal attack on Grandall, he is one of the most decent men I have ever met, but as a coach at the division II level, it doesn't seem like he has the skills, the initiative, or, as you so eloquently put it, hunger that it takes to succeed at this level. We haven't won, or even come close to competing for, a conference title in ages... Now, I obviously don't know everything that happens behind the scenes in Grandall's office, and I'm sure he does a lot of things to make the seasons run smoothly. But as far as a Track Coach, and especially as a Cross Country Coach, I think UND could do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 This year at the track meet in Moorhead, much of the team was standing in the infield watching our pole vaulter, Clark Carlson, who was at that time going against another athlete from NDSU for first place (yes, we still compete against them from time to time), when we realized that not a single member of the team was "recruited" in the traditional sense. We started joking about being team 'NR' or 'No Recruit.' Tyler Stoltz, who has gone to the national meet in both indoor and outdoor multiple times, was not recruited. He actually contacted Grandall first. Lee DeKrey, the ND State Cross Country Champion, and who was one of the top conference performers in both track and cross country, was not recruited. Matt Litzinger, NCC javelin champion and now school and meet record holder, was approached by Grandall as a freshman in school the day before practice started. He did not come out until this year because of it, and proceeded to have a stellar season. Gersezewski was not recruited; Yates was not recruited; I can go on and on... The point is, Grandall does very very little recruiting. I ate lunch with one recruit two years ago, and it was the first official campus visit for a recruit since he has been head coach. I don't know of a visit since then (although there may have been one or two) I know that Grandall went on his first home visit in many many years just a year ago. I'm sure that the facilities we have at UND for track are not a positive as far as recruiting. I have heard that Kinsey Coles really wanted to come to UND, but decided to compete for the Bison because they have access to an indoor facility. UND 92,96 - you comment on how 'you all know the facilities are sub-par,' but just how bad I don't think you can realize without being on the team. Our locker room is easily the worst of any team here at UND...it is, to say the least, embarrasing. However, this does not excuse the extreme lack of effort. There are other points to sell the University on...good campus atmosphere, great academic programs, the chance to excel in a terrific conference. Our team has a great relationship between the athletes because we all are self-motivated...we have a decent outdoor facility as well. This is not meant to be a personal attack on Grandall, he is one of the most decent men I have ever met, but as a coach at the division II level, it doesn't seem like he has the skills, the initiative, or, as you so eloquently put it, hunger that it takes to succeed at this level. We haven't won, or even come close to competing for, a conference title in ages... Now, I obviously don't know everything that happens behind the scenes in Grandall's office, and I'm sure he does a lot of things to make the seasons run smoothly. But as far as a Track Coach, and especially as a Cross Country Coach, I think UND could do better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very well-written and I am sure very accurate. I hope 1) that we get the new indoor facility that is being discussed and 2) that this puts pressure on the University to address the quality of the coaching. Undoubtedly, our facilities do make recruiting very difficult - but that doesn't mean that you don't try to recruit. I also know of ND and NW Minnesota kids (quite talented) who would have liked to have gone to UND (without scholarship $) but didn't simply because UND showed no interest in them. That is inexcusable. We have also lost a few excellent FB recruits who would have also liked to participate in track because of the poor facility and questionable coaching. SiouxRunner - What are you thoughts on Clay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 2) that this puts pressure on the University to address the quality of the coaching. The administrator here tells us all of the time that folks from UND read this board. However, expecting them to act because of a post on an internet board is an unrealistic expectation. A board like this is easily discounted. Direct contact by a name and a face isn't. If you believe there is a problem, directly contact folks at UND Athletics or UND in general and let them know your thoughts. It works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 After re-reading I can see how 2 was meant to be a conditional case of 1. Sorry. (But my point still holds true also.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 If what siouxrunner has posted is true, and I have no reason to dispute it, I would hope Mr. Buning would not tolerate any program being run in this manner. It's incredible that a college coach could survive at a school for more than 20 years while doing minimal recruiting. Where is the accountability? How has Grandall basically flown under the radar during the tenure of four or five different a.d.'s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 If what siouxrunner has posted is true, and I have no reason to dispute it, I would hope Mr. Buning would not tolerate any program being run in this manner. It's incredible that a college coach could survive at a school for more than 20 years while doing minimal recruiting. Where is the accountability? How has Grandall basically flown under the radar during the tenure of four or five different a.d.'s? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't there an NCC rule that only allows a limited number of athletic grants to be allocated to a select group of sports? I thought the NCC limited grant numbers in sports other than football, basketball, and possibly baseball to a limit of 10 or 15 combined. Maybe UND chooses to distribute their grants to other sports (such as swimming and diving), so recruiting for track and field is difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPNInsider Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Isn't there an NCC rule that only allows a limited number of athletic grants to be allocated to a select group of sports? I thought the NCC limited grant numbers in sports other than football, basketball, and possibly baseball to a limit of 10 or 15 combined. Maybe UND chooses to distribute their grants to other sports (such as swimming and diving), so recruiting for track and field is difficult. Either way, he could still be out there recruiting. You need to recruit walk-ons just as much, if not more then scholarship athletes. Make them know that they are wanted at the school even if no money can be given. Just talking to a kid and telling them about the program, or sending them a letter could well have gotten some of these kids to join the program. A little interest goes a long way for a high school kid looking for a team to play for, especially a high school kid who is not being recruited elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The NCC limit is 15 mens scholarships outside of basketball and football. (Not being sponsored by the NCC, WCHA mens hockey falls outside of this rule.) I believe legend334 had the specifics by sport one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 The NCC limit is 15 mens scholarships outside of basketball and football. (Not being sponsored by the NCC, WCHA mens hockey falls outside of this rule.) I believe legend334 had the specifics by sport one time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I went back and found legend's post regarding scholarship numbers. He stated that men's track/cross country is at 3.5 scholarships. Compare that to 1.8 for swimming/diving. Now think about what Stromberg and now Sampaio have accomplished with their 1.8, compared to what Grandall has done. Again, where is the accountability? Does anybody have any doubts that the swimming coaches have been recruiting for all these years, despite having so little scholarship money? Unless the information offered by siouxrunner and legend is way off, and again I have no reason to dispute it, Grandall's job performance is at best sub-par, and at worst downright incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I went back and found legend's post regarding scholarship numbers. He stated that men's track/cross country is at 3.5 scholarships. Compare that to 1.8 for swimming/diving. Now think about what Stromberg and now Sampaio have accomplished with their 1.8, compared to what Grandall has done. Again, where is the accountability? Does anybody have any doubts that the swimming coaches have been recruiting for all these years, despite having so little scholarship money? Unless the information offered by siouxrunner and legend is way off, and again I have no reason to dispute it, Grandall's job performance is at best sub-par, and at worst downright incompetent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stromberg and Sampaio really need to be commended for what they have done with the swimming program, with as little $'s as the program gets. The swim team actually does a lot of the cleanup of the Ralph after events to raise money for the program, if my memory is correct. From a recruiting standpoint, the non-revenue programs get peanuts for recruiting: (from http://www.UND.edu/org/iac/IAC9-16-03.htm 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 But somehow Swimming and baseball are very competitive without $'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Stromberg and Sampaio really need to be commended for what they have done with the swimming program, with as little $'s as the program gets. The swim team actually does a lot of the cleanup of the Ralph after events to raise money for the program, if my memory is correct. From a recruiting standpoint, the non-revenue programs get peanuts for recruiting: (from http://www.UND.edu/org/iac/IAC9-16-03.htm 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 But somehow Swimming and baseball are very competitive without $'s. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't help but wonder how Grandall has been spending that $2,500? So long as he's the coach, maybe that money should be re-allocated to baseball and swimming, since those coaches actually recruit. I don't mean to belabor the point, but the idea of a coach who apparently does very little (if any) recruiting really irritates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokarcrazy Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Stromberg and Sampaio really need to be commended for what they have done with the swimming program, with as little $'s as the program gets. The swim team actually does a lot of the cleanup of the Ralph after events to raise money for the program, if my memory is correct. From a recruiting standpoint, the non-revenue programs get peanuts for recruiting: (from http://www.UND.edu/org/iac/IAC9-16-03.htm 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 But somehow Swimming and baseball are very competitive without $'s. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Star 2 city do you know what the soccer recruiting budget is? I am curious. I would think that there should be a difference in sports that stats and times can go a long ways e.g. swimming and track and others that are a matter of perspective like soccer, football, hockey. Sports that you need to see the person play in person to get a idea of what they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Star 2 city do you know what the soccer recruiting budget is? I am curious. I would think that there should be a difference in sports that stats and times can go a long ways e.g. swimming and track and others that are a matter of perspective like soccer, football, hockey. Sports that you need to see the person play in person to get a idea of what they have. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Would agree that individual sports may make recruiting decisions easier, but a face-to-face meeting and a coaches judge of character are still important. Left out the soccer #'s. 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0266 Soccer Recruiting $ 3,000.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokarcrazy Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Wow it surpized me that soccer is lower than swimming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Wow it surpized me that soccer is lower than swimming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Considering that swimming covers both the men's and women's team, more recruiting $'s/signed athlete goes to soccer. If you look at the numbers, a signed women's hockey player "costs" around $5000 just in recruitment costs. (Men's basketball is about the same.) For soccer, it's about $500/signed athlete. When players that were recruited but didn't sign are considered, the average cost / recruited athlete is even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye_Catcher Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 First off, I will say that I am a member of the University of North Dakota track and field team. I would like to remain anonymous, but if a significant number of people feel this diminishes my credibility, I will gladly reveal my name. The first thing I am going to say is that I can attest to everything siouxrunner said. The issues I would like to weigh in on are how facilities and recruiting tie together and coaching. The fact that the University of North Dakota does not have a field house is not a big deal. The way 'coach', and I use that word lightly, Grandall tries to 'build' the team with what we have is a total joke. Because there is not a real distance runner that gives two rips about the indoor track season, that is who you recruit. So yeah, you almost have to throw the emphasis on your sprinters out the door. But at the same time would you rather have a snowmobile or a four wheeler? You can use a four wheeler year round but the sprinter only gives you five months. Your main seasons become the outdoor track season and the cross country season and the indoor season is used as preparation for the outdoor season. The recruiting budget is not a big deal. It costs very little to make a phone call to a potential athlete once a month and send out our 'recruiting guides' with a card for their times and personal info on. High school athletes LOVE hearing from college coaches. The fact that there is really no structure or goal to the recruiting really bothers me. Just a side note there are seven (7) guys competing for the men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend334 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 First off, I will say that I am a member of the University of North Dakota track and field team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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