SCCC Still Cast Stones in Glass Houses

[PCM]

...why would you refer to North Dakotans as thicked headed Norskies...

He mistakenly assumes that all "Norskies" are like him, just as he mistakenly assumes that most Native Americans agree with him.

[diggerdan]

chusby is typically of nose-in-the-air, I-know-what's-best-for-everyone thinking that dominates the mindset of those most vocally opposed to the nickname and logo. Only the opinions of those Indians who don't like the name matter, the opinions of those who like or could care less (the vast majority BTW) don't count because they're unenlightened or feel threatened.

Unbelievably to people like chusby, most Indians want issues like health care, education and living conditions to be addressed within their communities. Ironically, these are issues that UND hits head on with its nationally recognized programs. However, free thinkers like chusby have no time to delve into these insignificant issues as they have countless name change petitions to circulate, rallies to attend, or message board diatribes to post.

I will listen to the voice of the Sioux nation when it stands up and says "Change the name". However, it hasn't spoken yet. Not even close. And don't give me that crap about resolutions from tribal councils either. No form of government in this country is more alienated from the people they represent than your average tribal council. Less than two hours drive from Grand Forks sits a Sioux reservation with over 5,500 enrolled members. You would think that name opponents need only tap 10% of this populace to produce a very powerful name change rally. Spirit Lake Nation citizens at the last name change rally - less than 10. I think that pretty much says it all. The only people who want the name changed are those like chusby who think that a token gesture like this will make up for the sins of an expanding society over a century ago.

Sorry chusby, I usually don't like to get mixed up in the name change issue but an idiot must be taken to task for his or her ignorance and piousness. Now run to another board and whine and cry how we don't listen to alternative viewpoints on the SiouxSports board. Fly away, little chusby. Fly, fly, fly.

[mksioux]

How is that Native Americans feel honored with your use of the logo? Ask a few of them on campus if they feel honored by your offensive use of the logo.

First of all, nice loaded question. You have posed a classic "do you still beat your wife?" question. Putting that aside, I have spoken with non-UND student American Indians (as they preferred to be called) about the Sioux nickname. Most respond positively in favor of the nickname. And those who don't always are more negative about the white-lead protests on campuses than they are about the nickname itself. I know other posters on this board have been on the reservations and spoke to the people there about the issue. Maybe they can share their experiences as well.

Granted, the percentage of Indians at UND who oppose the nickname is likely higher than the Indian population as a whole, but why do you think that is? Could the indoctrination by white liberal professors have anything to do with it?

And you ask "how are they honored?" Well, that's easy. The nickname can stand for courage, strength, honor, tenacity, etc. just as easily as whatever you think it stands for. I would argue that it is mostly used respectfully. I would agree that a few things at the Ralph should change (like the Sioux-per Dogs), but that's no reason to scrap the nickname altogether.

Somebody else may have a link, but I remember when the new logo was unveiled, Bennet Brien stated what each part of the logo stood for. That would probably be a better answer to your question than anything I could say.

And, you're avoiding the Harris Research Study. What would you say to the 81% that are not offended and do not think Indian nicknames/logos should be changed? Would you say to them that their opinion does not matter because it is the "incorrect" view? Would you say, "sorry, the nicknames must be changed because the 19% who disagree with you are much more vocal"? What would you say to Jeremiah Holy Bull and the other American Indians (see picture on main page of this site), who choose to use the nickname as an opportunity to educate non-Indians about their culture? Would you have the audacity to tell them that they are not smart enough to tell they are being deceived?

I do not view American Indians as poor victims who need the white man to stand up for him and tell him how to think. Who is the elitist SDSUFAN? And I am not going to let a handful of activists, lead by white liberal college professors, convince me that they speak for all Indians.

[PCM]

Go to SDSU's Web site, do a search for either the word "native" or "Indian." You'll learn that the university has an American Indian Studies course, a Native American Student Advisement Office and a Native American Club. There's also a Native American Collection at the South Dakota Museum of Art.

It could be that SDSU actually has more American Indian-related programs and services than show up on its Web site. If so, the university does an excellent job of camouflaging its efforts in this area. But more likely, I suspect that it explains why an American Indian SDSU graduate recently told me that USD is the preferred university for Native Americans in South Dakota.

For the sake of comparison, go to UND's Web site and check out Native American Programs under "A to Z Search." You'll find these Native American-related program and organizations listed:

- AH'JO'GUN

- American Indian Teacher Recruitment Initiative

- Biomedical Research Infrastructure Network

- Cankdeska Cikana Community College/UND Internships in Family and Domestic Violence

- Elders Leading Breast Cancer Awareness

- Excellent Beginnings

- Howard Hughes Medical Institute Biological Sciences Improvement Project

- Indians Into Medicine (INMED)

- Indians Into Psychology Doctoral Education (INPSYDE)

- Indian Studies

- Multicultural Scholars into Dietetics Programs (MSDP)

- Native Elder Research Center

- Native Media Center

- Northern Plains Indian Law Center (NPILC)

- Project CRISTAL

- Recruitment and Retention of American Indians Into Nursing (RAIN)

- The Prairielands Addiction Technology Transfer Center

- TRIO Program

- UND National Resource Center on Native American Aging

- Native American Law Program

- American Indian Law Student Association

Also on UND's Web site, you learn that the university has:

* More than 150 undergraduates and graduate fields of study, including an outstanding Department of Indian Studies

* More than 400 currently enrolled American Indian students and nearly 2,500 American Indian alumni

* A Native American Programs Office to assist students and provide a central gathering place for study and recreation

* More than 30 special programs focus on the needs of American Indian students and citizens

You'll also learn that 20 percent of the American Indian doctors in the country are graduates of UND.

There's an annual Wacipi at UND which features Native American dancers and drummers from across the country.

And let's not forget about the traditional dance and drum ceremony performed by American Indians at Engelstad Arena to honor fallen warrior Ralph Engelstad.

As an SDSU graduate, I'd be truly embarrassed to come here and pretend to be morally superior simply because my university features a bunny rabbit on its logo instead of a work of art created by an American Indian graduate of UND.

I'd be worried that people would think that I'm a two-face, know-it-all hypocrite when they compare what UND and SDSU are doing for Native Americans that actually makes a difference.

I'd be concerned that people would think me foolish for slighting UND goalie Marc Ranfranz, who is not only part Sioux, but whose father is president of the Santee Flandreau Sioux tribe in South Dakota.

Unfortunately, there are SDSU alums in the world who don't understand how fundamentally ignorant they are. They refuse learn from those who know far more than they do about issues that people in Grand Forks and at UND deal with every day. They insist on making fools of themselves over and over again. There's simply no stopping them, no matter how hard you try.

[SDSUFAN]

I can only say that the mascot Jackrabbit is not offensive to Native Americans. What SDSU has or does not have in terms of Native American studies is a real red herring. Why is that Native Americans who are also UND students have come to SDSU to educate people about the offensive use of the logo and how offensive they have felt about the late great Ralph Engle$tad? Allowing the Lakota to perform a native dance on the ice of Ralph Eng$stad Arena is hardly an honor.

I can NOT help people who want to deny subtle racism. So good luck UND.

[Goon]

SDSU fan get off your high horse. The Lakota Singers that did the dance for Englestad's memorial are in favor of the name, and the performance they put on was very moving and an honor to a fallen donor. So you are wrong, there are natives that think the name is an honor but the vocal minority of students and white liberal hand ringing professor seem to think they need to interject their feelings. Do you ever find it funny that a fair number of the native americans that are against the name aren't even of Sioux decent they are Ojibiwe or Chipewa. Just one of the fact, but your not interested in the facts are you...

[mksioux]

SDSUFAN - It's so easy call people racist without backing it up, isn't it?

I'll respond to your question. You ask why some UND students come to SDSU to "educate" people about how the nickname and Engelstad Arena are offensive? The answer is because they have a political agenda. They go to campuses where students OBVIOUSLY have no knowledge about the issue and try to persuade them to adopt their position. It obviously worked with you. Too bad they didn't "educate" you well enough to be able to back up the position with facts when challenged, rather than resorting to the oldest trick in the book -- crying racism.

I addressed your question...let's see if you will address any of the questions/issues I posed.

[PCM]

One of the greatest problems surrounding the Sioux name is separating the activist-driven media version of the issue from the truth. (I

[fightonsioux]

SDSUFAN: The organization, BRIDGES, that came to your campus to educate you about racism is the very same organization that refers to Dana Williams as their webmaster/slave. That's right SLAVE! Until they practice what they preach they have no credibility as an organization that educates people on racism. Maybe Sen. Lott has been educating BRIDGES.

[Riverman]

Has anyone in Grand Forks actually been seen wearing the

[Goon]

[ScottM]

St. Cloud's "settlement" still hasn't changed much.

Strib1

And it's not just the school.

Strib2

[administrator]

No more Nazi slander towards UND and it's fans (or NDSU, or anyone else!) Please keep the insults back in the "hayseed, Barney Fife" vein. I deleted the offending post and replies to it.

This is the first and final warning on this topic for the original poster.

[PCM]

All humor aside, I deleted the offending post and replies to it.

I understand why JBB's post was deleted, but why was mine deleted when I quoted none of the slanderous words his post contained?

[administrator]

I understand why JBB's post was deleted, but why was mine deleted when I quoted none of the slanderous words his post contained?

I didn't want to leave a response to a quote for which there was no longer context. May have been the wrong decision, but I wanted to act quickly. I really do hate moderating, which is why there will not be another warning.

[Greyeagle]

When will you thick-head Norskies and Polocks get a clue on this issue?

Nothing to add other than this will surprise my Luxemburger-Irish mother and her family in LaMoure & Castleton.

But at least we're not stereotyping here....