Does Fargo Help or Hurt Grand Forks?

[Cratter]

Inquiring minds want to know. Anything Grand Forks does gets compared to Fargo, plain and simple. Gas prices in Fargo's are lowers, despite GF's being around the national average. Fargo is one of the greatest midsized town in the country. It is unfortunate that Grand Forks always gets compared to it. Add NDSU/UND and it gets amplified. Is it in Grand Forks's best to colaberate? There seems to be many businesses that say "Fargo/Grand Forks" yet many people leave Grand Forks for Fargo hurting GF's population while enhancing Fargos. Fargo takes away jobs/people from Grand Forks(?), but at the same time Fargo adds jobs to the ND economy and Grand Forks. For one example see the SEI company, one that came to Fargo and liked what it saw in ND and decided to expand. Grand Forks won over Bismarck to add jobs in the area. Anything one does the other seems to always want...Fargodome/Alerus, UND hockey/proposed NDSU hockey, NDSU D1/UND D1, the betty/proposed downtown fargodome area/remodel of BSA, and the list goes on. I bet that if Grand Forks gets a waterpark or casino, Fargo will be all over it seeing how they can get the same or one up GF. I propose this as someone born in Fargo raised in GF, I have been thinking about this for awhile. I Hate Fargo , mainly because of NDSU, but they are only one hour away and alot alike (yeah I know Federov not really alot of apts and restaurants in Fargo). A lof of UND fans live in Fargo, infact the times I go to Fargo, i count the UND/NDSU references and UND usually comes out ahead, believe it or not. PCM made a good point, in that Fargo benefits from 2 interstates connecting there. Personally I love Bismarck, great rolling hills, Abe Lincoln St Park, the "tame" Missouri Jet Skiing on it, etc. I seriously think there is something GF could learn from Fargo regarding business development, and alot of GF City Council members don't like to admit that. Hopefully someone can set me straight. End Rant.....for NOW (A few more capital words and I can be just like SIOUXMENOW..haha JK ....few more periods I can be like SiouxGoo...haha..Anyone guess my signature posting style yet??? ) I want to know what my Sioux family thinks.

Take it away star2city, one of my favorite posters.

I gotta go Wifeswap is on.

[SiouxMeNow]

(A few more capital words and I can be just like SIOUXMENOW..haha JK :lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

patience grasshopper! One day YOU can LEARN how to type in this EASILY IDENTIFIABLE (WITH slightly inappropriate smileys!) syntax - now - try to SNATCH the pebble from my hand...(but don't put your hand on my...NEVERMIND!)

BTW - Where is this FARGO you mention?? I've looked through every UND sports media guide and program over the last few years and all I find is a map locating GF geographically and I see Winnipeg, Minneapolis, and Bismarck BUT NO FARGO! (This is true!) I think it's hilarious Would have been even funnier if they would have labeled it Moorhead!

[TinyTimmay]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out where this all came from. I can understand you not liking NDSU, but to rip on an entire city because of the college within it, is a little befuddling to me (spell check on befuddling). And you compare the Alerus to the Fargodome, have you been in both ? Do you ever get that big steel storage shed feel when watching a football game in the Alerus ? Not real sure what that feels like, but you know what I mean. And about all these UND fans down here. They are basically two groups of people. 1) Alumni that, yes, found a better job down here, or 2) Bandwagoners that got tired of watching UND football whip up on the Bison the last decade or so, and after seeing UND finally win a D2 title (after NDSU has won 8). I may be way off and I'm sure I'm gonna get ripped on bigtime, but who cares, that's what makes these things fun right ? But hearing a Sioux fan ripping on my hometown, kind of chaps my hide. And to think that this is the normal way of thinking of most Sioux fans, maybe. And I'm trying my best to become a Sioux "hockey" fan, when I've been a Bison fan my whole life. Makes me want to see a hockey program get going here, an NDSU hockey team, not a club team either, that I can start cheering for. Yeah, they might be real bad, for a long time probably, but if UND came to town and could'nt score any goals, which is very very likely to happen, hey we might have a chance. Rip away people !!! Gp Sioux !!!............(hockey)

[TheBisonator]

Fargo/Moorhead/West Fargo/Dilworth: 160,000 people

Grand Forks/East Grand Forks: 60,000 people

To say that these two cities are comparable is a joke, since Fargo/Moorhead has almost 3 times as many people. Fargo has left GF behind in the dust. That's like asking if Cedar Rapids is comparable with Des Moines. One is obviously bigger, has more money and more business and more entertainment, and that's it.

That's why I say Grand Forks should stop trying to be like Fargo, and start trying to be itself. Because you'll never win. I'm not talking about UND versus NDSU (which are very comparable), I'm talking about the two cities. Anyone from GF who says that their city is comparable with Fargo is just trying to make themselves feel good.

BTW, you're not even the 2nd-largest city in the state anymore, are you??

[PCM]

BTW - Where is this FARGO you mention??

[Cratter]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out where this all came from. I can understand you not liking NDSU, but to rip on an entire city because of the college within it, is a little befuddling to me (spell check on befuddling). And you compare the Alerus to the Fargodome, have you been in both ? Do you ever get that big steel storage shed feel when watching a football game in the Alerus ? Not real sure what that feels like, but you know what I mean. And about all these UND fans down here. They are basically two groups of people. 1) Alumni that, yes, found a better job down here, or 2) Bandwagoners that got tired of watching UND football whip up on the Bison the last decade or so, and after seeing UND finally win a D2 title (after NDSU has won 8). I may be way off and I'm sure I'm gonna get ripped on bigtime, but who cares, that's what makes these things fun right ? But hearing a Sioux fan ripping on my hometown, kind of chaps my hide. And to think that this is the normal way of thinking of most Sioux fans, maybe. And I'm trying my best to become a Sioux "hockey" fan, when I've been a Bison fan my whole life. Makes me want to see a hockey program get going here, an NDSU hockey team, not a club team either, that I can start cheering for. Yeah, they might be real bad, for a long time probably, but if UND came to town and could'nt score any goals, which is very very likely to happen, hey we might have a chance. Rip away people !!! Gp Sioux !!!............(hockey)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yo, young chap, settle down and learn reading comprehension. I didn't rip on your hometown, I stated I was born in Fargo, and it's one of the greatest cities in the midwest??? WOW some people, take off the blinders. And yes I have been in both FDome & Alerus, try reading my post again, Both are football stadiums...period. I didn't compare atmosphere, attendance, etc. Fargodome is good for the steep sightlines, but overbuilt at the moment. The Alerus is better for the moment in GF with a better capacity stadium (%wise) hence one of the greatest/hardest places in D2 to play.

I personally think JimDahl is right the B.Ball team will benefit more than people think. More scholarhship, fans, etc, especially with the airface, which has fans from all over the world. They want to see National Teams, I personally experienced this durin the UND-Kansas game. UND will also benefit from more basketball schollarships, but another thread...

[Cratter]

Fargo/Moorhead/West Fargo/Dilworth: 160,000 people

Grand Forks/East Grand Forks: 60,000 people

To say that these two cities are comparable is a joke, since Fargo/Moorhead has almost 3 times as many people. Fargo has left GF behind in the dust. That's like asking if Cedar Rapids is comparable with Des Moines. One is obviously bigger, has more money and more business and more entertainment, and that's it.

That's why I say Grand Forks should stop trying to be like Fargo, and start trying to be itself. Because you'll never win.

I'm not talking about UND versus NDSU (which are very comparable), I'm talking about the two cities.

Anyone from GF who says that their city is comparable with Fargo is just trying to make themselves feel good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok Fgo/Moorehad/west fargo, DO "touch" how far is dilworth from "fargo"?

Yes I agree GF, should try being itself, but it's hard when ever you talk about something on a message board you get compared to a nearby city....almost makes it impossible to establish your own identity. Yes believe it or not GF and Fargo are both MIDSIZED towns in the midwest, whether you want to believe it or NOT....

[TheBisonator]

Ok Fgo/Moorehad/west fargo, DO "touch" how far is dilworth from "fargo"?

Yes I agree GF, should try being itself, but it's hard when ever you talk about something on a message board you get compared to a nearby city....almost makes it impossible to establish your own identity. Yes believe it or not GF and Fargo are both MIDSIZED towns in the midwest, whether you want to believe it or NOT....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't put GF in the same eshcelon as Fargo in any category whatsoever.

And Dilworth is a suburb of Moorhead about 5 miles from downtown Fargo.

And besides, Fargo-Moorhead is more of a small city than a "mid-sized town".

[Cratter]

I wouldn't put GF in the same eshcelon as Fargo in any category whatsoever.

ANd Dilworth is a suburb of Moorhead about 5 miles from downtown Fargo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank You for making my point for me. One cannot have a normal discussion on this board and other without stupid fargo backers, butting in with no-fact nonsense.

[TheBisonator]

Hey, I'm just telling you the truth. You may not like it, and you don't have to.

[TinyTimmay]

Yo, young chap, settle down and learn reading comprehension. I didn't rip on your hometown, I stated I was born in Fargo, and it's one of the greatest cities in the midwest??? WOW some people, take off the blinders. And yes I have been in both FDome & Alerus, try reading my post again, Both are football stadiums...period. I didn't compare atmosphere, attendance, etc. Fargodome is good for the steep sightlines, but overbuilt at the moment. The Alerus is better for the moment in GF with a better capacity stadium (%wise) hence one of the greatest/hardest places in D2 to play.

I personally think JimDahl is right the B.Ball team will benefit more than people think. More scholarhship, fans, etc, especially with the airface, which has fans from all over the world. They want to see National Teams, I personally experienced this durin the UND-Kansas game. UND will also benefit from more basketball schollarships, but another thread...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Learn reading what ? Hey, I was a homeschooled kid, so we can forget about me learning anything. I guess I can see what your saying, blinders and all.

[bigmrg74]

Ummm.... haven't we seen this argement before??

[star2city]

Cratter:

In a previous generation, I was also born in Fargo but raised in GF. My take:

For most of their histories, Grand Forks and Fargo have been rivals. For example, going back to their establishments, Fargo papers would always print “Forks” rather then “Grand Forks”, because certainly nothing could be “Grand” up there. But for all intents and purposes, the last couple of decades have given Fargo a permanent victory. There are probably many reasons for this, but three major ones are: Fargo has the only interstate intersection in the state (most natural location for branch offices), Microsoft-Great Plains giving Fargo a major corporate presence, and more visionary city and business leadership in the 60’s and 70’s in Fargo.

In the 60’s and early 70’s, Grand Forks actually had relatively high growth with the GFAFB/missile wings and food processing expansion, so it seemingly became content. It’s been paying for its lack of business foresight since. Currently, it is my personal understanding that there are “more irons in the fire” for economic development than there has ever been in GF. This year may be pivotal for announcements. For example, Cirrus is likely to announce this year where they will locate a jet assembly facility (maybe GF, maybe elsewhere), LM Glasfiber will likely announce a major expansion (somewhere, maybe GF), and certain Winnipeg companies have interest in beginning US operations. GF, IMO, is making a sharp right (correct) turn on economic development (precipitated largely by the flood), but the view may not yet seem like it quite yet.

But it should be remembered, with all the bravado about Fargo’s and even GF’s growth, that most of the growth these two cities have experienced are more the result of a relocation of retail and services from small-town North Dakota than “real” internal growth. Both cities focused too long on expanding their trade areas, which actually hurt surrounding rural areas as Fargo and GF acted as economic vacuum cleaners, instead of focusing on being nationally competitive in select industries. Only recently has Fargo’s growth helped revitalize nearly all of rural Cass County, and its further growth should have ripple effects well beyond its county line.

So does Fargo’s growth hurt GF? IMHO, absolutely not, it only helps GF and ND. (and more than that, it is unhealthy to begrudge another’s success.) North Dakota cities need to be nationally (and internationally) focused in their business outlook and Fargo is showing how that can be done. But GF can learn what not to do from Fargo’s example. IMO, Fargo’s achilles heal is it’s non-distinct urban sprawl. Ten-twenty years from now, GF is likely to have three distinct (and distinctive) vital cores: downtown (don’t laugh!), REA/Bronson/University, and the Alerus area, which will be very unique for a city its size.

[TheBisonator]

Cratter:

In a previous generation, I was also born in Fargo but raised in GF.  My take:

For most of their histories, Grand Forks and Fargo have been rivals.  For example, going back to their establishments, Fargo papers would always print

[dakotadan]

Fargo/Moorhead/West Fargo/Dilworth: 160,000 people

Grand Forks/East Grand Forks: 60,000 people

To say that these two cities are comparable is a joke, since Fargo/Moorhead has almost 3 times as many people.

Greater phoenix: 3.4 Million

Denver Metro: 2.4 Million

Metro Nashville: 1.23 Million

Now do they seem a LITTLE bit more comparable? Especially when you are comparing cultural areas such as attractions, museums, shopping, dining and nightlife.

And if you want to talk about all of the suburbs of Fargo you better add Thompson, Emerado, the Air Force Base, Crookston and Winnipeg to Grand Forks population numbers!

[TheBisonator]

Greater phoenix: 3.4 Million

Denver Metro: 2.4 Million

Metro Nashville: 1.23 Million

Now do they seem a LITTLE bit more comparable? Especially when you are comparing cultural areas such as attractions, museums, shopping, dining and nightlife.

And if you want to talk about all of the suburbs of Fargo you better add Thompson, Emerado, the Air Force Base, Crookston and Winnipeg to Grand Forks population numbers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, because Thompson, Emerado, etc. Aren't physically connected to Grand Forks like West Fargo, Dilworth, et al. are connected to Fargo-Moorhead.

Hell, I'll even give you the Air Force base.

[SiouxMeNow]

Ummm....

[SiouxMeNow]

ps - A certain Minneapolis/St. Paul TV station makes SERIOUS fun of Fargo in a recent campaign - i.e. "we'll send you to FARGO if you keep sucking at your current job" That should provide a little "REAL BIG CITY" prospective for our BIG TIME NEIGHBORS!!

(PS - I'm trying monster....I'm TRYING!!! )

[TheBisonator]

ps - A certain Minneapolis/St. Paul TV station makes SERIOUS fun of Fargo in a recent campaign  - i.e. "we'll send you to FARGO if you keep sucking at your current job"  That should provide a little "REAL BIG CITY" prospective for our BIG TIME NEIGHBORS!!

(PS - I'm trying monster....I'm TRYING!!! )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, people from the "HUGE" city of Grand Forks are in a position to denegrate the "small" town of Fargo.

Get over yourself, SiouxMeNow. You're the worst of them all.

[SiouxMeNow]

[TheBisonator]

Not us...a REAL CITY!! I'm just saying we're all in the same boat. Fargo will never be a major metropolitan area and neither will we - but SOME seem to think they're already in that class. Keep dreaming....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's wrong with trying to make Fargo a big city?? Our current mayor wants to achieve that. At least our city is progressive thinking and wants to become big-time.

And Fargo and Grand Forks are NOT in the same boat. Ask a taxi driver from New York if they've ever heard of Fargo, and they'll say yes (it doesn't matter what they think of Fargo, they'll still say they've heard of it). Ask them if they ever heard of Grand Forks, and they'll ask you what the hell a "Grand Forks" is.

[SiouxMeNow]

[SiouxMeNow]

MONSTER...WHERE ARE YOU?? I'm trying...REALLY...I'm trying!!!

PS - GRAND VALLEY STATE is twice the opponent with HALF the attitude of our "former rivals"

[SiouxMeNow]

i.e.....screw the bison!! (where's SUPERTREX and his avatar when I need him??? That is like the COOLEST button EVER!!! )

[TheBisonator]

You know you're losing the argument when you start having to call out your little friends for help.

I'm leaving now. CYA.