UND moving up?

[Canuck]

UND does red-shirt all its FB players. The last one to Not red-shirt was Jim Kleinsasser. The coaching staff WANTS kids to red-shirt.

IF memory serves me correctly, I believe WR Mike Juhasz is another of the few who have not redshirted, although his was lifted in-season because injuries drastically depleted UND's receiving corps.

But I digress...

You are correct, UND's policy has always been to redshirt ALL freshmen, except in the most extreme circumstances.

[RD17]

You are correct, UND's policy has always been to redshirt ALL freshmen, except in the most extreme circumstances.

Even in extreme circumstances, there has been a reluctance to lift redshirts under Lennon. In 2001 Jed P. was out with an ankle injury and then Jim Miller blew out his knee against Mankato. I remember there was some talk of taking the redshirt off of Mahmoud at the time but the coaching staff never did. It might have cost UND the Omaha game that year because there was no rushing attack.

[LennonIsTheMan]

Even in extreme circumstances, there has been a reluctance to lift redshirts under Lennon. In 2001 Jed P. was out with an ankle injury and then Jim Miller blew out his knee against Mankato. I remember there was some talk of taking the redshirt off of Mahmoud at the time but the coaching staff never did. It might have cost UND the Omaha game that year because there was no rushing attack.

they would have lifted the red-shirt off of chris beatty before riza mahmoud. riza wasn't eligible his first year as he was a "partial qualifier" academically.

[Bisonfan1234]

Toledo is (or at least was) top 25 pre season, genius.

Colorado State will be top 25 when the gophs play them.

That's possibly better than but at least as good as Miami OH, who are better than another horrible Notre Dame team again this year, and San Diego State who almost upset "the" overrated Ohio State bucks.

EDIT - Ok I actually checked the polls to confirm my speculations. The CBS Sportsline poll has the following:

Michigan #8

Toledo # 17

Minnesota # 20

Notre dame # 36

San Diego State # 37

Miami OH # 45

Colorado State # 58

So the average rank for Minnesota and Michigans best 2 NC opps. is 37.5 and 36.5 respectively. WOW, a whole point.

We'll see how that changes when the Gophs win by 3 TD's tomorrow.

[MafiaMan]

Bisonfan1234,

Are you seriously saying that big things weren't predicted for Notre Dame last year after their 10-3 finish the season before, which included an upset against Michigan? EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE was hyped for last year's Michigan/Notre Dame game. If you had told me that Notre Dame would lose by 30+ points, I'd have bet the farm against that happening. No one saw that coming.

I had no idea pre-season polls meant so much to you. You enjoy Toledo/Minnesota at the Hot-AirDome. I'll take Notre Dame/Michigan any day no matter what the team records are. You sound more like a Gopher homer than a Bison fan. 8-4 seasons are cause for ticker-tape parades on the U of small m campus. On the big U of M campus, coaches get canned for records like that.

By the way, Illinois State pasted St Xavier University of Chicago last weekend 44-14 in front of just over 7,000 fans. Circle that date on your calendar, Goldy! Genius.

[WYOBISONMAN]

This is an interesting thread. And....and much as a few Sioux fans and a few Bison fans would like to think.....people from both sides will continue to watch the other team with a lot of interest. Thinking otherwise is just flat-ass denial.

On the Death Valley debate....I think we need a Clemson-LSU game....I would love that one.

Now....I am done posting for the weekend....I am uptight about the NDSU/UNC game....and it is sunny and 75 outside right now. Therefore I am electing to leave work and head to the golf course for 9 holes and some cocktails to calm my nerves before I drive over to Greeley this afternoon.

Here is hoping that 2 teams from North Dakota show 2 teams from Colorado who is boss!

[Bisonfan1234]

I guess Notre Dame can't win anymore because "they can't recruit the black athlete" with such high academic requirements. That's fine, maybe the Big East will pick them up in football when their TV contract runs out with ABC.

We all know Michigan/Notre Dame is way bigger than all but a handful of games. I would never compare the experience of such an event to UMN/Toledo, but as far as actual football talent on the field is concerned, UMN/UT is the better game.

[MafiaMan]

Let's take a look at some years' gone by, shall we Bisonfan1234?

2003 losses by Toledo included a 28-18 defeat at the hands of UNLV, a 38-14 loss to Ball State, and a 34-7 thumping at the hands of a sub .500 Syracuse team.

2002 included a 10 point loss (31-21) to Minnesota in addition to a 51-25 pasting at the hands of a mediocre Boston College team.

2001's big win for Toledo was a 38-7 pounding of Minnesota. Of course, they followed that up with 24-20 and 56-21 losses to Ball State and Bowling Green, respectively.

Let's face it, Toledo football was put on the map on the basis of a September 2000 win against Penn State and a 2001 win over Minnesota. Those games made Big 10 teams take note. However, we've seen Joe Pa's PSU squad in total disarray over the past 4-5 years and that Toledo game was only the start.

I'm no fan of Notre Dame, but I think your assessment of the game featuring better talent on the field in each of those games is preposterous. What's next, saying that the Dickinson State Blue Hawks have more talent on the field than the Bison?

[Bisonfan1234]

Let's take a look at some years' gone by, shall we Bisonfan1234?

2003 losses by Toledo included a 28-18 defeat at the hands of UNLV, a 38-14 loss to Ball State, and a 34-7 thumping at the hands of a sub .500 Syracuse team.

2002 included a 10 point loss (31-21) to Minnesota in addition to a 51-25 pasting at the hands of a mediocre Boston College team.

2001's big win for Toledo was a 38-7 pounding of Minnesota.  Of course, they followed that up with 24-20 and 56-21 losses to Ball State and Bowling Green, respectively. 

Let's face it, Toledo football was put on the map on the basis of a September 2000 win against Penn State and a 2001 win over Minnesota.  Those games made Big 10 teams take note.  However, we've seen Joe Pa's PSU squad in total disarray over the past 4-5 years and that Toledo game was only the start. 

I'm no fan of Notre Dame, but I think your assessment of the game featuring better talent on the field in each of those games is preposterous.  What's next, saying that the Dickinson State Blue Hawks have more talent on the field than the Bison?

How about simply sticking to the numbers?

Toledo's rank + Minnesota's rank = 37 or 18.5avg. The actual difference is only 3.

Michigan's rank + Notre Dame's rank = 44 or 22avg. The actual difference is 28.

UMN/UT might actually be a fun game to watch while Michigan will pound Notre Dame like nail.

[MafiaMan]

Again, Bisonfan1234, why waste time with pre-season polls and numbers? If that's the case, why bother playing the games at all? Just give Toledo a win over Minnesota on the basis of being the higher ranked team and Michigan will no doubt pound Notre Dame in front of 90,000 Irish fans. Please. Let's see what these teams do over the course of the full season, then look back. Like I said before, no one expected the Irish to beat Michigan back in 2002 and that upset certainly propelled the Irish to wins over other big-name teams that year. Similarly, a team like Toledo upsetting a Penn State or Minnesota can lead them on a big year, too. Or conversely, like Washington in 2002, a heartbreaking loss in an opener can cause a downward spiral the rest of the way. It's easy to look at the schedule and say "cupdake" at the beginning, but isn't there always a surprise team somewhere? Heck, just look at the (gasp) NBA recently...when the Lakers earned the right to play the Pistons, every prediction I heard was 4-0 or 4-1 Lakers. I promise you that anyone in Vegas who bet on the Pistons in 5 was laughed at...but they earned a good chunk of change in return. Pre-season rankings and polls are b.s. You and I both know that.

[UND-GARY]

Hopefully UND moves up in the near future--I like the points that were brought up here. It would be fun to be in the Big Sky or some other conference where the talent level was a bit higher than the fans are used to.

Gotta beat Mesa this weekend though first!

[IowaBison]

your last line brings up a good point, which i pointed out earlier

it takes a lot of effort for the athletic department to keep UND performing like it is and it would take a lot more effort to move to DI

i don't see how rt can be plotting the move and keep it secret without rattling the bushes enough for someone to notice

i think that the best bet for UND is to actively and aggressively pursue the Big Sky Conference, PUBLICLY, i think it's the best shot they or any other school in the region has in getting into a respectable, logical conference in the next ten years

[MafiaMan]

I still think UND's intentions are to watch and see what happens with NDSU before making any major decisions. If NDSU flounders at D1-AA, UND won't budge and will mock NDSU for making the move itself. However, If Moo-U starts churning out titles in football and women's basketball, I'd expect UND to try to bump up ASAP. With extra scholarships, blue-chippers who might be considering heading to Grand Forks might decide the additional "prestige" of being a D1-AA school would make it more worthwhile to attend NDSU instead.

[Bisonfan1234]

I think simply being accepted into the Big Sky this spring will propel the move ASAP.

[SiouxMeNow]

keep smoking that stuff dude!!! It make you all...like....AWESOME (in your own minds!!!!)

Don't you see?? They're poking around the region to squeeze their current (and more regional) members to pony up.

"If you don't we'll expand to ND and SD!!!! That'll teach you!!!"

Fortunately the Big Sky has REASONABLE administrators who realize the limitations of the conference and they don't want the added expense of flying teams back and forth to the eastern edge of a marginally SUCCESSFUL division one AA conference - that could weigh EVERY conference member down financially! They'll take the "letters of interest" and promptly file them in the CIRCULAR file...and go back to negotiating with schools in a reasonable, geographical sphere of competition. FACE IT - no one is asking NDSU to join...you're begging them!!! Have fun in the Great Worst!

[dakotadan]

I believe that if NDSU is acceptaded into the BSC, UND is going to be very jelous, I will be, and if I am RT, which I'm not, I will be applying, if I'm already not, to join the league. I still can't decided, if ndsu and/or sdsu make the BSC, will they be helpful or not as far as UND getting in? I believe that NDSU and SDSU will be foaming at the mouth to get us to join. It will be a huge draw for all of the games and help out money wise for all tems involved.

[Bisonfan1234]

keep smoking that stuff dude!!! It make you all...like....AWESOME (in your own minds!!!!)

Don't you see?? They're poking around the region to squeeze their current (and more regional) members to pony up.

"If you don't we'll expand to ND and SD!!!! That'll teach you!!!"

Fortunately the Big Sky has REASONABLE administrators who realize the limitations of the conference and they don't want the added expense of flying teams back and forth to the eastern edge of a marginally SUCCESSFUL division one AA conference - that could weigh EVERY conference member down financially! They'll take the "letters of interest" and promptly file them in the CIRCULAR file...and go back to negotiating with schools in a reasonable, geographical sphere of competition. FACE IT - no one is asking NDSU to join...you're begging them!!! Have fun in the Great Worst!

I guess we'll see.

The real problem, IMO, is the CSUS and PSU. I think the sky made a mistake w/ those two schools that they want to correct.

So I think in a few years CSUS and PSU will be gone with NDSU, SDSU, UND, and UNC being added.

One curious thing, would SDSU being accepted do anything for USD?

IMO USD is nowhere even close to being in the position UND is in to move up at any time.

Also sucks for SUU, but that's life. They'll be fine in the Great West/Mid Con.

[updm002]

Thus far in sdsu's quest for d1 glory they have yet to score a goal in women's soccer in 3 games, their volleyball team lost to d2 unk and is doing poorly, and their fb team got absolutely blasted by another provisional d1 team cal-davis. I will bet the Big Sky conference won't be very impressed with their athletics when at the end of this year they decide to choose some new schools. While NDSU will do well in fb in all probability they too will get their clock cleaned in d1 basketball (especially mens). I will predict their men not win one d1 game this year just like UNC last year. Maybe the BIG Sky is desperate for teams and will take teams/schools based on some kind of long long term potential but if I were the president of one of those schools I wouldn't be too anxious to go 1000 miles to play schools that are very substandard on the athletic field. You would have to show me something before I would even consider you. Good luck to UND if they decide to follow their brethren down in fargo and brookings.

[Riverman]

if you're going to go, go now, every day you wait you lose media exposure, your buildings get older, and the NCC gets worse and worse

Help me to understand please.

UND plays UM and UW in D1 sports. Watch the ESPN ticker some Friday or Sat night or when UND plays on CSTV. Isn't that (FREE) media exposure?

Didn't REA build a new arena for BB and VB and for the real big games can play in the REA?

And the AL isn't it a little newer than say, the Fargo Dome??

Just wondering if you have time maybe you could explain it to a poor ill informed UND supporter.

Sure I sould like "Fox Mulder" but I bet The Big Sky would love to have both UND and NDSU if they worked together on a deal. But NDSU couldn't wait so why should UND run and follow and make errors in judgement it might be sorry for?

Do I think UND will jump to D1aa and D1 in other sports? Yes I do.

[SiouxMeNow]

SDSU is clearly an anchor rather than a partner for NDSU...they got spanked in their conference opener and I can't see them beating any GW opponent expect maybe Sac State. I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS but NDSU would be a good addition for the Big Sky but the girl you're bringing to the dance is a real ($$$ starved) dog. You won't be able to sell them on yourselves...if only you would have been willing a chill for a couple more years...this would have been good for everyone

[Bisonfan1234]

SDSU is clearly an anchor rather than a partner for NDSU...they got spanked in their conference opener and I can't see them beating any GW opponent expect maybe Sac State. I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS but NDSU would be a good addition for the Big Sky but the girl you're bringing to the dance is a real ($$$ starved) dog. You won't be able to sell them on yourselves...if only you would have been willing a chill for a couple more years...this would have been good for everyone

I sorta think you're right...but... we wouldn't have gotten the new coaching staff or any of the other improvements if we didn't go DI now. So I think we choose the correct time.

[WYOBISONMAN]

SDSU has got to step up to the plate and add scholies to be competative at DI-AA. This weekend's game shows that for sure.

[updm002]

I have been saying this for the last 6 months on the sdsu site and been shouted down continually. SDSU can not compete and doesn't have the resources to be successful. Ex-look at their fb stadium, look at their scholarship situation,etc.

They have started their d1 experience exactly as I thought they would. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that the big sky will choose unc and ndsu and bypass sdsu bc of their finances and overall ineptitude this year. SDSU will then be out there as an independent with nowhere to go and will try to come back to the ncc. Remember this is supposed to be a "try it on" year for them so it could happen. I think the powers to be at sdsu won't let that happen bc of ego but it is a possibility - slim but still possible. Signed, UPDM002 aka - big jake on sdsu board

[Bisonfan1234]

I have been saying this for the last 6 months on the sdsu site and been shouted down continually.  SDSU can not compete and doesn't have the resources to be successful.  Ex-look at their fb stadium, look at their scholarship situation,etc.

They have started their d1 experience exactly as I thought they would.  I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that the big sky will choose unc and ndsu and bypass sdsu bc of their finances and overall ineptitude this year.  SDSU will then be out there as an independent with nowhere to go and will try to come back to the ncc.  Remember this  is supposed to be a "try it on" year for them so it could happen.  I think the powers to be at sdsu won't let that happen bc of ego but it is a possibility - slim but still possible.  Signed, UPDM002  aka - big jake on sdsu board

I think you very well could be right.

Also remember the SD board of regents tried to shut them down.

After seeing UNC's stadium this weekend and knowing that in their 2nd DI season that they only have 41 schs., the BSC might not accept them either!

[SiouxMeNow]

SDSU does have a Division One Marching Band...but I guess that won't help them much;)