The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 When did Dale Lennon become a professional consultant on transitions to Division I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 When did Dale Lennon become a professional consultant on transitions to Division I? Are we doubting that Dale has inside info on UND's move to Divison I because he not a professional consultant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 ... UND's move to Divison I .... What move? Link from official University of North Dakota spokesperson speaking on the subject please. (The previously posted Lennon statement doesn't pass muster: First, it's not a direct quote. Next, in a court of law it would at best be classified as hearsay, meaning he said that he said.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What move? Link from official University of North Dakota spokesperson speaking on the subject please. (The previously posted Lennon statement doesn't pass muster: First, it's not a direct quote. Next, in a court of law it would at best be classified as hearsay, meaning he said that he said.) In a court of law we would call the two people that were involved to testify, Dale Lennon and Donovan Alexander. Neither has come out publicly and denied the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 NDSU's six-figure FY03 debt isn't fictional. (Same source you cited.) However, if the numbers are fictional, why'd NDSU take Inniger away from endowment building and put him on immediate needs solicitations? To make FY05 actual revenue (real world $) meet or exceed FY05 expenditure projections (fictional world $). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 In a court of law we would call the two people that were involved to testify, Dale Lennon and Donovan Alexander. Neither has come out publicly and denied the statement. Nor to my knowledge has either one adopted that position or be challenged by it. Is this a true and accurate report of a statement either one made? shep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 To make FY05 actual revenue (real world $) meet or exceed FY05 expenditure projections (fictional world $). If the projections are "fictional world" why worry about them in the real world? Are projections real or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Bison Fans, you're missing the point! Lets look at the facts: 1. NDSU hasn't started playing D-I right now and there already at the top range of what the Carr reports said was a reasonable budget to sustain, without even fully funding their scholarships. 2. NDSU isn't really title IX complient, and again, ther're already at the top of what is a reasonable budget according to the Carr report. NDSU is so worried about being able to play a D-IA school and pretend that their in the big leagues that there not funding their endowment fund. What are you going to do after you have a bad season of football, and the donations stop coming in to fund that years 8 million budget? Cut scholarships? Not travel to california for football games that year? Maybe cut some womens sports out, as long as football is ok, right? It truly amazes me that bison fans can think that theirs enough money from the same school that had a 5 mil. budget last year to fund an 8 mil. budget annually. Right now you'll be able to generate the money because of the excitement of the transition. But in 5 years, when nobody wants to pay more to see some D-Iaa school getting their asses kicked at everything except for some D-I wannabe league of football the money will stop flowing in, the then you'll start your endowment fund, except by then it will be too late, and you'll be condemed to either raising student fees by 50% per year and suffering through 20-30 years of huge budget deficits and 4-23 basketball seasons. I can't wait to see the next evolution of your problems, when the sales projections for your department doen't come through, and you find out that the pres. has been lying to you all along. Its too bad you won't see the truth until its too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 If the projections are "fictional world" why worry about them in the real world? Are projections real or not? They're projections, and should be taken as such. What were the projections for UND FY03? Did they show $390k in red ink? Projections don't hit the pocketbook. Until somebody creates a crystal ball that actually works, projected budgets are nothing more than a slightly educated guess. What actually matters is the ink that the actual revenue and expenses are written in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 They're projections, and should be taken as such. What were the projections for UND FY03? Did they show $390k in red ink? Projections don't hit the pocketbook. Until somebody creates a crystal ball that actually works, projected budgets are nothing more than a slightly educated guess. What actually matters is the ink that the actual revenue and expenses are written in. Weren't NDSU's numbers in FY03 in red ink? Was that projected? (Same answers as for UND I'm sure.) Now "red", big "red", is being projected at NDSU. What'll that bring? No crystal ball here. However, forgive me if I prefer even the reasonable hope (reasonable projections) of being revenue neutral or positive. And wasn't the state of Montana the best comparison to the state of North Dakota? That same Fargo Forum news story reports that they both have athletic budget woes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I found this graphic extremely interesting in the Forum today. NDSU v SDSU scholarships I feel that the way NDSU is going about their distribution of scholarships is much better then what SDSU is doing. NDSU seems to be taking the "win now" attitude to the move. SDSU seems to be taking their time, which will lead to more losses in the "big 3" sports of football, and the 2 basketballs. Having more scholarships available makes every team better. Look at the Gophers this year. They were strapped for schollies and it showed on the court. By NDSU taking the "win now" approach, with it will come more wins because they simply have more able bodies with the move then do the Bunnies. Obviously the Bunnies are not going to be any good on the football side, but only adding 2 scholarships there? A team that is not too competitive on the D2 side is not going to do anything on the 1AA level by simply moving up a class, which is what they are basically doing next year. This lack of scholly money and lack of wins will definately hurt them on the football side. In hoops, the Bunnies losing Andy Moeller is gigantic. The Bison have closed the perceived gap between the 2 schools in men's basketball big-time, and being fully funded right away puts them ahead of the Bunnies. To me, the path NDSU is taking out of the gates is the right one, the one I hope UND will take if and when it jumps. Nothing helps more then wins, and doing that immediately more then your new rival is something that should pay long-term dividends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 NDSU seems to be taking the "win now" attitude to the move. SDSU seems to be taking their time, which will lead to more losses in the "big 3" sports of football, and the 2 basketballs. I can see the advantages of both sides, but I think NDSU's way is a bigger gamble. Right now their taking a "win now" attitude at the cost of funding their endowment for the future, while SDSU is concentrating on funding their endowment. I think the first couple of years for a transitional school are the most important, because thats when the most excitement (opportunities for funding) will be present. SDSU using this opportunity to fund their endowment fund for scholarships so they won't have to worry about it anymore seems like a smart move to me. Later they can use other sources of funding for their facilities improvements (God knows they need it). The bison on the other hand, while having the advantage right now, not only are hoping to be successful, but need to be succesful in at least football to avoid losing there annual donations. If they aren't succesful in football and they lose some of their annual donations from people tired of giving to a losing program, then they will be in a world of hurt, and without their endowment, I don't know where the cuts are going to come from, unless they just take a deficit for those years. On the other hand, NDSU succesfully pulling off this gamble would pay big dividens for the school in public perception for the school. As for basketball, even with the additional scholarships and SDSU's loss of Moeller, I don't think the gap has narrowed too much in terms of mens basketball, I'm very impressed with SDSU's recruiting class thus far. God, I sound like an SDSU supporter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I think the reason for the major difference in philosophy is that NDSU has to win in football right away for the move to work while SDSU has more time simply because of the historical differences in expectations at the schools. After beating Montana last year and seeing the success that UNC had in their first year, NDSU fans are going to expect immediate success. If for some reason NDSU fails to be successful in football, financing the move could be a big problem. OTOH, SDSU fans probably have limited expectations for their football program right away (or if they don't they need a reality check ). I'm sure they realize that if they couldn't win an NCC title in the last 40 years, it's going to take awhile to get the program up to speed at I-AA. I sure hope Roger Thomas has his pen and paper out and is taking notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm surprised no one picked up on these statements by Roger Thomas in the link to the UND Athletics FY04 budget: Roger Thomas said that President Kupchella has made it clear that UND will remain Division II with Division I hockey regardless of the move made by NDSU, SDSU and Northern Colorado. ... The new facilities will draw new teams to compete against in volleyball and basketball. The new facilities at UND also put the school in an excellent position facility-wise should the decision to move to Division I occur down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm surprised no one picked up on these statements by Roger Thomas... Thomas? What does he know? He's just Dale Lennon's sock puppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 NDSU needs to put people in the seats and a loosing team will not do that....especially with no post season for the next few years. I think that Chapman and Taylor realize this and that is why the schollies are ramping up so fast. It also will lead to large guarantee money sooner as well. In reality, both NDSU and UND should have been D1 15 years ago. The state of North Dakota deserves that. With the two flagship schools being D2, higher ed in ND has been seen as at a lesser level than other states. I am sure over the next few years as this shakes out we will see UND moving up as well. Both UND and NDSU have few peers in D2 and both institutions are a much better fit in D1. I am not sure that NDSU and UND will ever be in the same conference again, but I do think that with in the next 5 years they will once again share a division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm surprised no one picked up on these statements by Roger Thomas in the link to the UND Athletics FY04 budget: Roger Thomas said that President Kupchella has made it clear that UND will remain Division II with Division I hockey regardless of the move made by NDSU, SDSU and Northern Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (UND Alumni Association and Foundation Executive Vice President) Tim (O'Keefe) recommended that UND pay attention to the things we can control and place the university in a position to make the move to DI if necessary. Control what's yours to control. That's why I like Tim. PS - UND's laundry is on the line. Where are the links to NDSU's athletic budget information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 When the Biiison come crawing back, in a few years, will we let them back in the conference? Could be perhaps after they have gratifyingly groveled, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelboy Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 NDSU needs to put people in the seats and a loosing team will not do that....especially with no post season for the next few years. I think that Chapman and Taylor realize this and that is why the schollies are ramping up so fast. It also will lead to large guarantee money sooner as well. In reality, both NDSU and UND should have been D1 15 years ago. The state of North Dakota deserves that. With the two flagship schools being D2, higher ed in ND has been seen as at a lesser level than other states. I am sure over the next few years as this shakes out we will see UND moving up as well. Both UND and NDSU have few peers in D2 and both institutions are a much better fit in D1. I am not sure that NDSU and UND will ever be in the same conference again, but I do think that with in the next 5 years they will once again share a division. Maybe in a few years when it all shakes out we will see the bison back down to D2, on their hands and knees begging for a conference. I think I speak for most fans when I say I would rather be playing for a chance of a national title in a sport, rather then just saying, "well, look at the teams were playing, but were not going to win a title". Football and wrestling are your best chances, but what would a football title be worth? It's AA, and that is not even close to the big boys that you claim your going to be someday, (see USC, TEXAS, MIAMI) you are AA don't get it confused with the big boys. And by the way, didn't they carry the title game of AA last year on a weeknight and the D2 title game on a Saturday. If I recall more people tuned in to the D2 game last year then the AA game, by quite a bit. Of course if the bison were in that game it would have outdrawn the ROSE BOWL. O.K. the OUTBACK BOWL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelboy Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Oh I almost forgot. Bison fans if you really want to see what D1 is all about (real D1) come out and watch UND win a DIVISION 1 NATIONAL HOCKEY TITLE next year. It will be kind of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Oh I almost forgot. Bison fans if you really want to see what D1 is all about (real D1) come out and watch UND win a DIVISION 1 NATIONAL HOCKEY TITLE next year. It will be kind of fun. IMO the odds are better that UND will join I-AA before the Bison return to DII. Yes, I did watch the Gophers win National Titles the last three years in hockey. One of only 13 schools that play DI hockey and DI-A football. It has been kind of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Yes, I did watch the Gophers win National Titles the last three years in hockey. One of only 13 schools that play DI hockey and DI-A football. Three? Fishing opener is over. Set the beverage down. Last eight NCAA Division I Mens Ice Hockey champions: 2004 Denver 2003 Minnesota 2002 Minnesota (OT over Maine) 2001 Boston College (OT over North Dakota) 2000 North Dakota 1999 Maine 1998 Michigan 1997 North Dakota Sure there are 13 DI-As playing hockey (counting DI-A powers UConn, Army, Air Force, Bowling Green, Miami of Ohio, and Western Michigan, none of whom will ever win a DI-A title under the current system), but there are 14 DI-AAs that play college hockey. Now college hockey is more legitimate, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Face it, no one considers UND a D1 school. You guys are living in a dream if you believe that. That kind of unprogressive attitude is what makes ND backwards and resistant to progress. You need to move on with us, or you will be left behind with the Minot State's of education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Three? Fishing opener is over. Set the beverage down. Last eight NCAA Division I Mens Ice Hockey champions: 2004 Denver 2003 Minnesota 2002 Minnesota (OT over Maine) 2001 Boston College (OT over North Dakota) 2000 North Dakota 1999 Maine 1998 Michigan 1997 North Dakota Sure there are 13 DI-As playing hockey (counting DI-A powers UConn, Army, Air Force, Bowling Green, Miami of Ohio, and Western Michigan, none of whom will ever win a DI-A title under the current system), but there are 14 DI-AAs that play college hockey. Now college hockey is more legitimate, right? 2004 Women's NCAA Champion Minnesota Gophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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