Question about changing the nickname and logo

[jloos]

I'm not howling Sica, just telling it like it is. 

  I was born a Lakota, live as a Lakota, and will die a Lakota, and not many on this campus work that way.  They are born _____________, get a degree and call themselves "Sioux", then spend the rest of the time fighting to lay claim to that name. 

 

  I've been on this campus for 4 years, and I still see the way that Natives are belittled, treated w/ disrespect, and pushed aside, just because we are asking for the same treatment of everyone else.  I' tired of this University claiming its honoring our people.  When will they ever get the point that they are not Sioux? 

  All we are asking for is to be treated equal, nothing more, nothing less.  And if that requires taking down 8,000 Sioux heads in that arena, so be it.

  And I'd appreciate it if there is no talk about Red Lake, or Casinos, or anything else of that nature.  Those talks are not apart of this room, and if you want to complain, please come to 317 Cambridge and we can talk.  We are talking about the Sioux Name in here...not anything else.

 

Nake Nula Waun.  Hetche to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of the other Native students I have met have no problem with the name. The Spirit Lake High school is known as the "Indians", and use a logo that is very much like the UND logo of the 70's.

The vast majority of people protesting are ultra liberal white people who have nothing better to do.

The people at 317 Cambridge are being used and exploited by said white people. Fortunately most Native students are smart enough to realize this.

Being proud of your heritage is a good thing - blaming all of your problems on your heritage is a bad thing.

Not all Native people want to live a traditional life, what is wrong with that? Not everyone devotes their entire life to their heritage. I have respect for those that work to further Native causes, such as improving reservation life. However, those that leave the reservation, or were never on a reservation are no less Native. Not everyone puts their race above everything.

Most of the Natives I know are people that happen to be Native, not Natives who happen to be human.

[The Sicatoka]

"Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no."

Source: Peter Harris Research Group, Inc., as reported in Sports Illustrated, March 4, 2002, page 69.

Methodology: The pollsters interviewed 351 Native Americans (217 living on reservations, 134 living off). The responses were weighted according to US census figures for age, race, gender, and the distribution of Native Americans living on and off reservations.

Margin of error: Plus or minus 4 percent.

Graham, you have your point of view. It seems to not align to the majority of Native Americans.

[GrahamKracker]

I agree that Native Americans should be treated equally to the "white man".

Equally in taxation, equally in scholarships, equally in programs at UND, equally in getting into the nursing program, law program, etc., and equally in pay in the work force.

I have a friend who did not make the nursing program, but spots open for Native Americans only went to students with poorer grades.

I have a friend who couldn't get his masters from UND because only 5 people were accepted and 3 HAD to be Native Americans.

I get less pay then a Native American at my job, yet my responsibilities and my time here are more.

It seems it's acceptable and not racist for a "white man" to be treated differently because of skin, but it is not acceptable and racist for anyone else.

Uff-da. Uff-da. Uff-da

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, do your homework before you go spouting off. I never recieved free tuition, or "special" scholarships, or special "N.A. spots" that you are talking about. And the last time I checked, my taxes were paid.

Of the roughly 400 "Diversity Waivers" on campus, less than 80 went to Native Students, and we make up less than 4% of the population on this campus. Many more athletic scholarships were given out than to Native students, maybe we should start complaining about them, too, especially those that don't have the best records.....

You want to be treated "equally"? Have you been to Twamley lately? Have you looked at who are the heads of all of the Departments on this Campus? the VPs? Also the people on Congress, Senate, and even the GF City Council? I can't believe you talk about being treated "equal" when almost every one of the positions listed above are filled by Caucasian Males.

So this Logo Issue is deeper than just what the Sioux Nation is requesting, your telling me it because of a grudge against the Favoritism my people have been getting? Wow, I didn't know we had it so made.

Thank you, because now I see that even though I come from a reservation w/ 67% unemployment and one of the poorest counties in the country, you still feel inferior to me being here, paying for my college like everyone.....wait, I can't say that because "I" have to pay for my own education (my parents didn't have the means to put away for my education like some, not all, but some of you reading this had a free ride).

What other reasons can I hear for keeping the name?

[The Sicatoka]

UND provided 130 athletic scholarships last year. 80 Native students got diversity waivers. There were 400 diversity waivers.

By your own words, Natives Americans got about 20% of the diversity waivers, right?

And there were three times the number of diversity waivers than athletic scholarships.

How do those numbers look in comparisons?

You are a student at a major American university. You don't exactly seem to be living on your knees as you'd like to claim.

[GrahamKracker]

UND provided 130 athletic scholarships last year. 80 Native students got diversity waivers. There were 400 diversity waivers.

By your own words, Natives Americans got about 20% of the diversity waivers, right?

And there were three times the number of diversity waivers than athletic scholarships.

How do those numbers look in comparisons?

You are a student at a major American university. You don't exactly seem to be living on your knees as you'd like to claim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never did live on my knees, maybe you should get off your once in a awhile. I fought hard to get where I am. I also stand behind my people, not the "hang around the fort (Fort Engelstad) Indians" looking for a handout, but with the natives holed up in that 100yo building w/ asbestos ceilings at 317 Cambridge. Thats where you can find the D/L/N oyate, and the Ojibwe, and the M/H/A Nation, and representatives from many other tribes. Hetche to.

130 is still more than 80.

[The Sicatoka]

Thats where you can find the D/L/N oyate, and the Ojibwe, and the M/H/A Nation, and representatives from many other tribes.

[ESPNInsider]

Again, do your homework before you go spouting off. I never recieved free tuition, or "special" scholarships, or special "N.A. spots" that you are talking about. And the last time I checked, my taxes were paid.

Of the roughly 400 "Diversity Waivers" on campus, less than 80 went to Native Students, and we make up less than 4% of the population on this campus. Many more athletic scholarships were given out than to Native students, maybe we should start complaining about them, too, especially those that don't have the best records.....

You want to be treated "equally"? Have you been to Twamley lately? Have you looked at who are the heads of all of the Departments on this Campus? the VPs? Also the people on Congress, Senate, and even the GF City Council? I can't believe you talk about being treated "equal" when almost every one of the positions listed above are filled by Caucasian Males.

So this Logo Issue is deeper than just what the Sioux Nation is requesting, your telling me it because of a grudge against the Favoritism my people have been getting? Wow, I didn't know we had it so made.

Thank you, because now I see that even though I come from a reservation w/ 67% unemployment and one of the poorest counties in the country, you still feel inferior to me being here, paying for my college like everyone.....wait, I can't say that because "I" have to pay for my own education (my parents didn't have the means to put away for my education like some, not all, but some of you reading this had a free ride).

What other reasons can I hear for keeping the name?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So now we need to also have natives at the positions within the institution, I am still waiting for you to give me a case when you have been treated unfairly and it is solely because you are native american. I doubt you can. If you can give me instances it would greatly change my (and many others I'm sure) views on the situation but I just don't see it happening.

Almost everyone has it tough once in a while, but the strong step up and make the best of their abilities and opportunities in front of them. When the opportunities they have don't seem to be sufficient for the skills these people possess, the best make new opportunities while the weak complain about the ones they have.

[ESPNInsider]

[administrator]

I think its so funny that you are bit on this, like the coward wasicu's you are.

Your viewpoints on the topics of discussion are welcome, your personal attacks against other posters are not.

I'm sure we could find a way to shut down Mr. Dahl and this racist message board in a heartbeat.

Again with the personal attacks, and now threats. Avoid both in future posts or your privileges to post here will be suspended.

[GrahamKracker]

Your viewpoints on the topics of discussion are welcome, your personal attacks against other posters are not.

Again with the personal attacks, and now threats. Avoid both in future posts or your privileges to post here will be suspended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its fine for people to degrade me (dating way back to the tipi incidents-- assuming that we were the one's responsible to the vandalization of our tipi), but yet you jump on me in a heartbeat, I knew I had to walk a tighter line because of my views, I just didn't know how tight that line was. Now I do.

[administrator]

Its fine for people to degrade me (dating way back to the tipi incidents-- assuming that we were the one's responsible to the vandalization of our tipi), but yet you jump on me in a heartbeat, I knew I had to walk a tighter line because of my views, I just didn't know how tight that line was.  Now I do.

I will clarify once more, your views are welcome; your calling other posters cowards and racists and threatening the administrators of this site are not. The warning applies to everyone, and it's the same standard everyone will be held to (feel free to report any missed violations via email or PM).

Further discussion of board policy is welcome in the "SiouxSports.com" forum.

Edit -- add this to the list of quick ways to become unwelcome:

I'm just glad that when people here [sic]Hitler and Nazi...

Comparing those with whom you disagree to Hitler/Nazis is poor form and not allowed.

[dakotadan]

but with the natives holed up in that 100yo building w/ asbestos ceilings at 317 Cambridge.

[The Sicatoka]

in a name that we the Sioux people own.

Can someone explain to me how the D/L/Nakota people "own" a word, much less a word that is derived from French and Ojibwe origins?

[GrahamKracker]

So now we need to also have natives at the positions within the institution, I am still waiting for you to give me a case when you have been treated unfairly and it is solely because you are native american. I doubt you can. If you can give me instances it would greatly change my (and many others I'm sure) views on the situation but I just don't see it happening.

Almost everyone has it tough once in a while, but the strong step up and make the best of their abilities and opportunities in front of them. When the opportunities they have don't seem to be sufficient for the skills these people possess, the best make new opportunities while the weak complain about the ones they have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have submitted police reports, I'm sure I can get you copies from the University PD. Unfortunately I don't have exact documentation on all of the cat calls and war whoops people hollar while I'm walking around this campus at night, but I'm sure all of the students on this campus must have been called a "prairie nigga" at one time or another, right? Oh, maybe not.

I can give you one example, though. You still call yourself a fighting sioux. When a most of the Sioux nations have asked you not to, when many student organizations on campus have asked for UND to retire the name, when various Government agencies are getting involved, and also the NCAA, you still hold onto a name that is not yours to claim.

We need to sit down and talk sometime. Come over to 317 Cambridge and we can talk about this.

[The Sicatoka]

Can someone explain to me how the D/L/Nakota people "own" a word, much less a word that is derived from French and Ojibwe origins?

.. you still hold onto a name that is not yours to claim. 

And the D/L/Nakota people do claim it when it is a French or Ojibwe word? How does that work?

[GrahamKracker]

[ESPNInsider]

I have submitted police reports, I'm sure I can get you copies from the University PD. Unfortunately I don't have exact documentation on all of the cat calls and war whoops people hollar while I'm walking around this campus at night, but I'm sure all of the students on this campus must have been called a "prairie nigga" at one time or another, right? Oh, maybe not.

I can give you one example, though. You still call yourself a fighting sioux. When a most of the Sioux nations have asked you not to, when many student organizations on campus have asked for UND to retire the name, when various Government agencies are getting involved, and also the NCAA, you still hold onto a name that is not yours to claim.

We need to sit down and talk sometime. Come over to 317 Cambridge and we can talk about this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never considered myself a Fighting Sioux. Never called myself that either. I say that I went to the University of North Dakota, like most people I know say. If someone asks I tell them that our team name is the Sioux.

When I went to UND people called me names once in a while too, not as bad as you claim it to be, but none the less people are people and many will act in uncivalized ways no matter who they are dealing with or what the environment around them is like.

When you say that you cannot participate in all the things going on at UND what events do you speak of? Is it prejudice against me that I cannot join Delta Gamma?

EDIT: I'm not going to drive 11 hours to sit and argue with you, when I can do it here on the message board.

[GrahamKracker]

[ESPNInsider]

Looking at past posts you have been calling yourself "Sioux" and the "Sioux Nation"...

Is that because the world wants you to?

[UND92,96]

Graham--were you at the protest outside REA prior to the dII basketball championship game? I'm curious, why is it that despite the fact that there are approximately 400 Native American students at UND, plus numerous caucasion faculty members whose politics are considerably left of center, only about 75-80 people total (including non-Natives and people from outside the area) showed up to protest? That's essentially identical to the number that showed up to protest when REA opened in 2001. I would think that if a large number of people on campus were truly passionate about changing the status quo, they would show up for events like these, particularly considering CBS was present.

[GrahamKracker]

I have never considered myself a Fighting Sioux. Never called myself that either. I say that I went to the University of North Dakota, like most people I know say. If someone asks I tell them that our team name is the Sioux.

When I went to UND people called me names once in a while too, not as bad as you claim it to be, but none the less people are people and many will act in uncivalized ways no matter who they are dealing with or what the environment around them is like.

When you say that you cannot participate in all the things going on at UND what events do you speak of? Is it prejudice against me that I cannot join Delta Gamma?

EDIT: I'm not going to drive 11 hours to sit and argue with you, when I can do it here on the message board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol, (I don't blame you, 11 hours is a lot of time and fuel)

I don't know what Delta Gamma is, I assume its a frat/sorority. On that note, did you know that if you look into the Laws of some of these Frats that originally it stated that Indians are not allowed? I'm not doing the segregating.

As far as the name calling, I think that the name issue plays a big part in providing a catalyst for this hatred bitterness towards native people. Even if you agree with the name (except for a few well known "hang around fort Engelstad" Indians) you have felt this resentment by people on campus.

We all have been subjected to stereotypes, hell I even catch myself doing it to, but I myself am working on it all the time. My fight isn't w/ the people on this campus, my fight is with the SBHE, and a Dead guy's money.

I'm glad you know that your not Sioux. I'm not Norweigan, nor do I play on campus, lol

[GrahamKracker]

Graham--were you at the protest outside REA prior to the dII basketball championship game? I'm curious, why is it that despite the fact that there are approximately 400 Native American students at UND, plus numerous caucasion faculty members whose politics are considerably left of center, only about 75-80 people total (including non-Natives and people from outside the area) showed up to protest? That's essentially identical to the number that showed up to protest when REA opened in 2001. I would think that if a large number of people on campus were truly passionate about changing the status quo, they would show up for events like these, particularly considering CBS was present.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We had over 300 in 2001. Unfortunately, like most, we value our time away from this place and it just so happen to be a 4 day weekend for the students. Our turnout was better than I thought.

But that's beside the point. I don't care if there's 4 protesters (like during the 30 below World Jrs) or 10000000, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the Federally recognized Sioux Tribes have asked that the University change its names

(this protest was much smaller, the one in 2001 had over 300 uniformed officers as well as snipers, just in case we rushed the "new" statute and spit on it or something. This one only had 1 officer...lol)

Thanks for your question

[GrahamKracker]

Looking at past posts you have been calling yourself "Sioux" and the "Sioux Nation"...

Is that because the world wants you to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I don't understand your question.

I don't care if the world wants me or not. I've been around the world and it was a humbling experience, but I need to focus my time what I can to do better the socio/economic status of my people the Sioux, the Oceti Sakowin, the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Oyate.

[ESPNInsider]

I'm glad you agree that I should not make the drive

I don't want to come across as repetitive but, when you say you are discriminated against on campus is it by students or the school?

If the case is students I think you will get that no matter the nickname and no matter the environment, kids are kids. But if it is the school, that is a totally different manner. You say that you are a part of these different organizations on campus, they obviously aren't discriminating against you.

I just challenge you to prove one instance in which the university has discriminated against you because you are native. I do not want to be hostile, I would like to help you realize that many people feel as though they are treated unfairly by their school, if indeed that is the case.

[ESPNInsider]

I guess I don't understand your question.

I don't care if the world wants me or not. I've been around the world and it was a humbling experience, but I need to focus my time what I can to do better the socio/economic status of my people the Sioux, the Oceti Sakowin, the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Oyate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry this was from earlier in the thread where you were talking about the "Sioux" name and your affiliation with the name. I will post it over the top.