Corella Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 From what I know, UND does pays REA for marketing, and not much else. If this is thought about, what legend is saying doesn't really make any sense, and I know for fact that most of it is fase also. Ralph builds the arena for UND. They then charge $6500 a month for ice time for their sole tennant? The ball would be in UND's court with the ice fee. All UND would have to do is say no, we'll just practice and play at the old Ralph for free. The ice fee, amongst other things, makes no sense to me at all because UND has a ton of leverage in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 A question, Is a athletic departments bubget the same thing as the athletic departments revenues? And by the way Title IX stinks. Its intent is good but it has gone too far. Womens hockey is a black hole. The law should include some fiscal responsibilty. Also, somebison that was a great link to athletic departments revenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend334 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 this is all i am going to say......that is the way the contract reads.....you guys can believe it or not....my source is my eyes viewing the contract....i am not going to speak anymore about it....done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 TItle IX is reverse discrimination BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 that is the way the contract reads Are you a lawyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 legend334 - Just a few comments on the Ralph and Alerus deals with UND Athletics from someone who is neither a lawyer nor an accountant. On the Ralph-UND deal, as agreed upon with the State of North Dakota, UND cannot subsidize the Ralph’s operations, including employees’s salaries (which is non-trivial with about 30 full-time employees) , utilities (the Ralph actually ‘pays’ UND for steam and the electricity to run compressors to make ice is not cheap), insurance, maintenance, and capital expenditures. In contrast, costs associated with the upkeep and operation of the Hyslop or Bison Sports Arena are all charged to general university accounts and are not reflected in athletic budgets. The true cost of running an athletic department's facilities are much higher at any university than what is reflected by the athletic budget. Any charges by the Ralph to the U are more than offset by the returned dollars. The State of ND is not providing a free ride on the Ralph’s costs, and IMHO the UND athletic department is very much benefitting from the Ralph (greatly increased seat license fees) and from visionary Ralph management who do not have to answer to university or state politicos. UND benefits both financially and publicity-wise from events such as the World Juniors. Also, once the “Betty” is paid for, there is likely to be additional facilities for non-revenue generating sports that will financed by the Ralph. As far as the Alerus deal, football attendance is up compared with Memorial Stadium as season tickets and late-season single tickets are much more easily sold (and at a higher price.). Also, considering that several thousand students get in for free to the Alerus, it is not as good of a deal to the Alerus as it seems at first glance. The Alerus was the major beneficiary of $27.50 tickets to the UND/NDSU game, not the athletic department. Just like the Ralph deal, the Alerus-UND deal is a win-win situation for both parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Also, to comment on Somebison’s link on athletic department revenues. UND and NDSU are using what appears to be entirely different methods of listing revenue. For example, NDSU appears to place Teammaker revenue directly in a sport, while Fighting Sioux Club revenue is placed in “Not allocated by sport”. NDSU’s revenue from “Not allocated by sport” is almost certainly state funding of coaches salaries, while UND’s figure in the same category includes FSC revenue and state funding. Much of the FSC revenue is due to seat licenses from the Ralph. Also, it is highly doubtful that $759,280 in revenue was generated by ticket sales or out-right donations to UND womens’ teams other than basketball. For Title IX purposes, some of the reimbursement from the Ralph is likely credited to womens’s hockey team. UND Revenues . . . . . . . . . . . Men's Teams . . . . Women's . . . Total Basketball . . . . .$183,524 . . . . . . $178,648 . . .$362,172 Football . . . . . . .$446,354 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $446,354 Other Sports . . .$855,116 . . . . . .$759,280 . . . $1,614,396 Total Revenues . .$1,484,994 . . . . $937,928 . . . $2,422,922 Not allocated by sport . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $3,929,708 Grand Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $6,352,630 NDSU Revenues . . . . . . . . . . . Men's Teams . . . . Women's . . . Total Basketball . . . . $300,092 . . . . . . $284,849 . . . $584,941 Football . . . . . .$1,216,824 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,216,824 Other Sports. . $245,846 . . . . . . .$383,173 . . . $629,019 Total Revenues $1,762,762 . . . . . $668,022 . . . $2,430,784 Not allocated by sport . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2,054,206 Grand Total. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $4,484,990 To me, the most interesting question is how NDSU will be able to increase the total revenue level to UND's level with no additional revenue generating sport, a small number of home football games, and no sold-out UND/NDSU games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 UND Revenues . . . . . . . . . . . Men's Teams . . . . Women's . . . Total Basketball . . . . .$183,524 . . . . . . $178,648 . . .$362,172 Football . . . . . . .$446,354 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $446,354 Other Sports . . .$855,116 . . . . . .$759,280 . . . $1,614,396 Total Revenues . .$1,484,994 . . . . $937,928 . . . $2,422,922 $2,422,922 NDSU Revenues . . . . . . . . . . . Men's Teams . . . . Women's . . . Total Basketball . . . . $300,092 . . . . . . $284,849 . . . $584,941 Football . . . . . .$1,216,824 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,216,824 Other Sports. . $245,846 . . . . . . .$383,173 . . . $629,019 Total Revenues $1,762,762 . . . . . $668,022 . . . $2,430,784 $2,430,784 It doesn't get much closer than that! And you have hockey plus much better facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Also, to comment on Somebison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend334 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 star2city-----what is your point? so you think that UND would not have made more money in the old barn...or memorial stadium, where UND received all concessions and did not pay rent, the state took care of the building??? so you think the athletic dept made less money then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 star2city-----what is your point? so you think that UND would not have made more money in the old barn...or memorial stadium, where UND received all concessions and did not pay rent, the state took care of the building??? so you think the athletic dept made less money then??? I guarantee that the women's hockey program at UND DOES NOT receive a check at the end of last year (for $500,000) if it is not for the new Ralph Engelstad Arena. I will also guarantee that "The Betty" does not get built at all if it is not for the new Ralph Engelstad Arena. It doesn't matter what any contracts say. These two things don't happen if the men still are playing in the old arena and they are not selling BEER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Somebison: You make a good point about some UND basketball revenue being included as revenue by the Ralph. However, if Teammakers contributed 1.4 million to the Bison last year, where is this accounted for? Both schools receive about 2 million in state revenue for their athletic programs, so by simple math it seems some of that Teammaker money went direct as "football revenue". There is no way NDSU grossed $1 mill in 2002 in football ticket sales as a good fraction of their tickets were reduced price or free student tickets. Remember your 2002 end-of-season "crowds" of 5000? Since Div I expenses will add $1.5 -2 million a year in expenses and the state will absolutely not chip in more money, NDSU will need to nearly double its revenue from ticket sales/Teammakers/student fees. That is not an easy task. My comments about the football schedule were tongue-in-cheek, but be prepared for Northern Sun teams (Crookston ). legend334: My point is that the Ralph is not a state-subsidized facility like the Hyslop or the BSA. It has to make money to cover its expenses, as pointed out in today's GFH editorial. I'm not sure what your points have been, other than cynically implying the Ralph's financials are not above board. Do you actually think UND athletics is worse off with the Ralph and Alerus? As Clayton Hoyt pointed out, there would be no Betty being built without the Ralph and more facility improvements will be coming because of the Ralph. Why would the athletic department move its last revenue producers to the Ralph if it wasn't in its best interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 star2city, When was there a "crowd" of 5,000 at the Fargodome in 2002? The smallest crowd in 2002 was over 6,600. NDSU had a 2-5 record going into that game. I believe that UND's crowd on 11/2/02 was around 5,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 star2city, When was there a "crowd" of 5,000 at the Fargodome in 2002? The smallest crowd in 2002 was over 6,600. NDSU had a 2-5 record going into that game. I believe that UND's crowd on 11/2/02 was around 5,000. UND's last two home crowds of 2002 were 8786 and 7328. If memory serves me correctly, NDSU's last two were both in the 6600 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 They were around 6,600 for UNC and 6,700 for SCSU. I thought UND's numbers were lower in 2003. I tried finding them on the official UND site, but it's way too slow for my patience quotient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 They were around 6,600 for UNC and 6,700 for SCSU. I thought UND's numbers were lower in 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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