is it time to change the GFC-RR district boundary line?

[UND92,96]

link

Thoughts? I say yes. I've thought this pretty much ever since the flood.

[roper1313]

I'm not from GF, but from Fargo. We are going through a similar process here with Fargo South being split into 2 schools. What are the enrollment numbers at each of the GF schools, and if my assumption is correct (rr is bigger than GFC), then is central large enough to handle increased enrollment or will it need to be added on to?

It will be interesting to see how the transition is handled in Fargo, maybe GF will be able to learn from Fargo's mistakes (I'm sure there will be some).

IMO, if a change in district borders is best for the city and most importantly if it is best for the kids then I say, take a look at it. It will be interesting to read the letters to the editor over the next couple of weeks.

[coach daddy]

The east-west division line is interesting. I would go east to Central seeing as it more along the river and west to GFRR since the school would be on the west side of town.

The real interest is how many of Central's athlete's are open-enrolling to Central from the RR district. Someone should research that little ditty. What you find might surprise alot of people.

I know at Fargo North this year, their boys basketball team had 3 starters from the South district. It's a problem everywhere.

[UND92,96]

I guess the question to me is whether it's positive in a community the size of Grand Forks to have virtually all of the $250,000-plus homes in town located in one district? Both districts have plenty of low and moderate-priced homes, but only the Red River district has large numbers of higher-priced homes.

[coach daddy]

I guess the question to me is whether it's positive in a community the size of Grand Forks to have virtually all of the $250,000-plus homes in town located in one district? Both districts have plenty of low and moderate-priced homes, but only the Red River district has large numbers of higher-priced homes.

Good point. I think the high priced homes has always been a problem for GFRR and Central. Right now, I believe there are enough kids from the Schroeder Middle School that go to Central to offset some of these concerns.

[KEH]

I thought students had a choice whether to go to Central or Red River?

[siouxperseven]

I guess the question to me is whether it's positive in a community the size of Grand Forks to have virtually all of the $250,000-plus homes in town located in one district? Both districts have plenty of low and moderate-priced homes, but only the Red River district has large numbers of higher-priced homes.

Good Point! And yes, most of the $250k plus homes are in RR district. RR has plenty of apartments in their distrit and that's the only way it somewhat balances out. Central has most of the lower priced homes due to the age. Interesting comments as we were just talking about this Friday night. Plus, more than a few RR kids go to Central because of athletics and less competition....not meaning less talent just less numbers. GF will build a new high school.

[OldSchool]

Good Point! And yes, most of the $250k plus homes are in RR district. RR has plenty of apartments in their distrit and that's the only way it somewhat balances out. Central has most of the lower priced homes due to the age. Interesting comments as we were just talking about this Friday night. Plus, more than a few RR kids go to Central because of athletics and less competition....not meaning less talent just less numbers. GF will build a new high school.

Siouxperseven why in the world would Grand Forks build a new high school. We are not growing, and taxes in the town are out of control just curious about your statement.

[siouxperseven]

Siouxperseven why in the world would Grand Forks build a new high school. We are not growing, and taxes in the town are out of control just curious about your statement.

I completely agree Old School! IMO we do not need another high school as enrollment shrinks. However...there is quiet talk about wanting another as RR is growing and the housing is only going south. If I also heard correctly there is land near the middle school already designated and rough plans have been drawn. I agree with you on taxes and the whole point but as everyone in GF knows....if the people in power/control want it....it will come...even if we vote it down three times.

[gfhockey]

GFC has more kids there then RR for you information. That is from ndhsaa.org. First time in years. I dont think re doing the lines woudl do any good cuz that would jsut mean more kids transferring to rr for ohckey and gfc for football.

[OldSchool]

I completely agree Old School! IMO we do not need another high school as enrollment shrinks. However...there is quiet talk about wanting another as RR is growing and the housing is only going south. If I also heard correctly there is land near the middle school already designated and rough plans have been drawn. I agree with you on taxes and the whole point but as everyone in GF knows....if the people in power/control want it....it will come...even if we vote it down three times.

Good Point Siouxperseven. I can't argue that one bit.

[siouxperseven]

GFC has more kids there then RR for you information. That is from ndhsaa.org. First time in years. I dont think re doing the lines woudl do any good cuz that would jsut mean more kids transferring to rr for ohckey and gfc for football.

Yes and according to size and numbers Central has to many students which then go to RR and they are within few of requiring an addition as well. GFhockey..I am all sports but sports go in cycles. RR used to be football and Central was hockey just as RR has been king in golf but will have trouble fielding a team in JV next year so they'll be after some younger Central golfers. Always a fun little cycle with open enrollment. I for one really feel for the coaches who have to deal with these kids changing schools so easily.

[mikeypat15]

What I've always wondered is why Central, which is located downtown near the River is called Central, and Red River is located in the Central part of town but is called Red River?

[soohockey15]

What I've always wondered is why Central, which is located downtown near the River is called Central, and Red River is located in the Central part of town but is called Red River?

Because these schools weren't named last week.

[HockeyHigh]

I completely agree Old School! IMO we do not need another high school as enrollment shrinks. However...there is quiet talk about wanting another as RR is growing and the housing is only going south. If I also heard correctly there is land near the middle school already designated and rough plans have been drawn. I agree with you on taxes and the whole point but as everyone in GF knows....if the people in power/control want it....it will come...even if we vote it down three times.

Yeah, if you thought adding a new high school in a shrinking enrollment and a huge boom to taxes would be impossible, ask South Fargo how that's working out. As far as I know, none of the parents/students/teachers/other citizens want another High School, and I'm pretty sure that South's enrollment will fall below a lot of the other larger schools in the state. The new Davies' High will also have all the higher priced homes (the farther south in Fargo you go, the higher price of homes, generally), meaning South High will be filled with all the lower income families, seperating even more the distinction between the city.

It was a bad choice overall, and look how easily Davies' was scheduled to be built.

Edit: To the previous poster, it just goes to show you about all the condescending names. South High School will now be in the middle of the city, and Davies will be the farthest south by far. Maybe South will go back to Central High School?

[coach daddy]

Yeah, if you thought adding a new high school in a shrinking enrollment and a huge boom to taxes would be impossible, ask South Fargo how that's working out. As far as I know, none of the parents/students/teachers/other citizens want another High School, and I'm pretty sure that South's enrollment will fall below a lot of the other larger schools in the state. The new Davies' High will also have all the higher priced homes (the farther south in Fargo you go, the higher price of homes, generally), meaning South High will be filled with all the lower income families, seperating even more the distinction between the city.

It was a bad choice overall, and look how easily Davies' was scheduled to be built.

Edit: To the previous poster, it just goes to show you about all the condescending names. South High School will now be in the middle of the city, and Davies will be the farthest south by far. Maybe South will go back to Central High School?

While their enrollment may be cut in 1/2 with the new high school coming, At least we'll see most of the EDC schools w/similar enrollment numbers. Right now, the playing field is not level. South shouldn't be graduating 600 kids a year and everyone else 300. I also believe the new high school will be better for educational purposes too. Class sizes have to be smaller and the buildings less crowded after the new school is finished. Seems like a no brainer to me.

West Fargo, you're next!!! Bismarck, not too far away either.

[siouxperseven]

Yeah, if you thought adding a new high school in a shrinking enrollment and a huge boom to taxes would be impossible, ask South Fargo how that's working out. As far as I know, none of the parents/students/teachers/other citizens want another High School, and I'm pretty sure that South's enrollment will fall below a lot of the other larger schools in the state. The new Davies' High will also have all the higher priced homes (the farther south in Fargo you go, the higher price of homes, generally), meaning South High will be filled with all the lower income families, seperating even more the distinction between the city.

It was a bad choice overall, and look how easily Davies' was scheduled to be built.

Edit: To the previous poster, it just goes to show you about all the condescending names. South High School will now be in the middle of the city, and Davies will be the farthest south by far. Maybe South will go back to Central High School?

As I read this I thought of Crookston. They went through an issue 8-10 years ago and built a new high school that was state of the art....but one they didn't need as enrollment was shrinking like everywhere else. So, the new one was built and the envy of all. Then they realized the heating costs were to high so they turned the heat down. Then, they realized how much time / money it took to do snow removel so they blocked off the westside of the parking lot during the winter. And then when costs couldn't be kept down anymore.....they let teachers go and blocked off areas of the school where the heat could be shut off. Classic stuff. Close to the County Jail stories we have here in Forks. Good to hear Fargo makes the same mistakes.

[siouxperseven]

While their enrollment may be cut in 1/2 with the new high school coming, At least we'll see most of the EDC schools w/similar enrollment numbers. Right now, the playing field is not level. South shouldn't be graduating 600 kids a year and everyone else 300. I also believe the new high school will be better for educational purposes too. Class sizes have to be smaller and the buildings less crowded after the new school is finished. Seems like a no brainer to me.

West Fargo, you're next!!! Bismarck, not too far away either.

Don't follow all the HS sports but at the girls state track it sure seemed like South was dominating most of the running events along with having most of the entrants. They were fighting each other for top 3. Other than the jet from West Fargo who was smoking along in the hurdles. SHE was fast!

[roper1313]

Yeah, if you thought adding a new high school in a shrinking enrollment and a huge boom to taxes would be impossible, ask South Fargo how that's working out. As far as I know, none of the parents/students/teachers/other citizens want another High School, and I'm pretty sure that South's enrollment will fall below a lot of the other larger schools in the state. The new Davies' High will also have all the higher priced homes (the farther south in Fargo you go, the higher price of homes, generally), meaning South High will be filled with all the lower income families, seperating even more the distinction between the city.

It was a bad choice overall, and look how easily Davies' was scheduled to be built.

Edit: To the previous poster, it just goes to show you about all the condescending names. South High School will now be in the middle of the city, and Davies will be the farthest south by far. Maybe South will go back to Central High School?

I think you are generalizing South Fargo a little too much. There are a lot of parents and students who really like the idea that kids in fargo are going to have a lot more of an opportunity to participate in activities with Fargo South going from a mega HS to a "normal" sized large school. There are quite a few parents who send their kids to Shanley, Oak Grove, or Park Christian just so thier kids can have more opportunities to participate in school activities. Also if you take a look at class sizes at south a majority of them are at or close to the 28 limit. As a tax payer in Fargo, a parent of elementary aged kids and a husband of a teacher I think the new HS is a great idea.

To address your statement that Davies will have majority of higher incomes. Obviously you don't have kids at the elementary schools in that area. I'll give you Centenial that's definitly higher income, but take a look at Bennett and Kennedy. Both of those schools have some of the highest levels of assisted lunches in the district.

I guess I'm in the minority in Fargo that thinks if the school district has managed their funds appropiately and therefore has built up a large excess fund then they should be able to do what they want with the money. IMO, its better to build a school with cash on hand then having to float bonds.

I guess we'll know how this all turns out in fargo in 10-20 years.

[HockeyHigh]

Maybe I generalize a bit too much, however, I sincerely believe that the new school is a bad idea for Fargo. Beyond an athletic standpoint. If you look at schools across the board in states outside of ND, there are huge numbers of schools with over 1,500 kids in enrollment 10-12. I actually think a higher enrollment, to a certain extent, is for the better of the students. I believe with South's large enrollment, they are capable of housing numerous AP classes which would not fill enrollment elsewhere, and allow for more Junior Varsity participation than any other school in the state. If you also look at the statistics for population in the (Now) South school district, the graduating classes coming up are smaller and smaller, I believe at certain points dropping to about 400 students per year. That's 200 students down from previous years, when I would have thought it would be an ok idea to add the new school. I don't have a credible source to actually pinpoint the numbers, but if the population of a graduating class drops from 600 to 400 per year, and is then split in half by an additional school, isn't this going to completely ruin the benefits of having a larger school? There will not be higher level classes available to students wishing to excel, and a graduating class of 200 down from 600 is going to have a serious problem in athletics. I do not see any larger youth programs in sports such as football, hockey, baseball, etc popping up, getting more kids interested. This means the same amount of people that were going to play for South are going to play split onto different teams, and there will not be enough to fill the spots, and ruin the balance of sporting events, and may easily cause troubles for teams trying to provide a plausible group of kids. Maybe it will even out, 10-20 years from now, but I foresee this as being a huge mistake. If I had been asked personally what I would do, I would have left it. But it wasn't my decision, and I'll have to live with it, I guess. Yay for more taxes! Bring em on!

I was also wondering, where are they going to find all these new coaches and staff, since it's pretty limited around here. I sense quite a few problems arising.

[roper1313]

Maybe I generalize a bit too much, however, I sincerely believe that the new school is a bad idea for Fargo. Beyond an athletic standpoint. If you look at schools across the board in states outside of ND, there are huge numbers of schools with over 1,500 kids in enrollment 10-12. I actually think a higher enrollment, to a certain extent, is for the better of the students. I believe with South's large enrollment, they are capable of housing numerous AP classes which would not fill enrollment elsewhere, and allow for more Junior Varsity participation than any other school in the state. If you also look at the statistics for population in the (Now) South school district, the graduating classes coming up are smaller and smaller, I believe at certain points dropping to about 400 students per year. That's 200 students down from previous years, when I would have thought it would be an ok idea to add the new school. I don't have a credible source to actually pinpoint the numbers, but if the population of a graduating class drops from 600 to 400 per year, and is then split in half by an additional school, isn't this going to completely ruin the benefits of having a larger school? There will not be higher level classes available to students wishing to excel, and a graduating class of 200 down from 600 is going to have a serious problem in athletics. I do not see any larger youth programs in sports such as football, hockey, baseball, etc popping up, getting more kids interested. This means the same amount of people that were going to play for South are going to play split onto different teams, and there will not be enough to fill the spots, and ruin the balance of sporting events, and may easily cause troubles for teams trying to provide a plausible group of kids. Maybe it will even out, 10-20 years from now, but I foresee this as being a huge mistake. If I had been asked personally what I would do, I would have left it. But it wasn't my decision, and I'll have to live with it, I guess. Yay for more taxes! Bring em on!

I was also wondering, where are they going to find all these new coaches and staff, since it's pretty limited around here. I sense quite a few problems arising.

I don't have any numbers to back up my claims either, but from what I understand the district is projecting that all three schools have around 300 per graduating class. That brings the numbers in line with were they were in the early 90's and South didn't have any real problems winning state championships back then.

The district is saying that AP classes that are offered at south will be offered at Davies, we'll see. As far as recruiting teachers to Fargo, I don't think that will be hard. There are an awful lot of people applying for jobs in Fargo that have to go elsewhere. From what I hear from teachers in the area, Fargo is one of the tougher jobs to get. Plus they are not really going to neeed to add a bunch of teachers, they'll just be moving half to Davies. Qualified coaches is another thing, it seem like the schools have favored hiring from the inside, but they may not have that luxury any more.

South been an athletic jugernaut for a long time and that's not going to be the case any more. That may be tough on us in Fargo, but I don't think you'll see the rest of the state crying to much.

[HockeyHigh]

I don't have any numbers to back up my claims either, but from what I understand the district is projecting that all three schools have around 300 per graduating class. That brings the numbers in line with were they were in the early 90's and South didn't have any real problems winning state championships back then.

The district is saying that AP classes that are offered at south will be offered at Davies, we'll see. As far as recruiting teachers to Fargo, I don't think that will be hard. There are an awful lot of people applying for jobs in Fargo that have to go elsewhere. From what I hear from teachers in the area, Fargo is one of the tougher jobs to get. Plus they are not really going to neeed to add a bunch of teachers, they'll just be moving half to Davies. Qualified coaches is another thing, it seem like the schools have favored hiring from the inside, but they may not have that luxury any more.

South been an athletic jugernaut for a long time and that's not going to be the case any more. That may be tough on us in Fargo, but I don't think you'll see the rest of the state crying to much.

I see most AP classes at South disappearing with a new school. The classes (have a neighbor in the administration) are having enough trouble filling classes to a capacity that makes it feasible to have the classes as is. If you cut the number in half and put them in different schools, there's going to be some trouble keeping the classes afloat. Also, teachers in North Dakota aren't getting paid near what they get if they go across the border, so I don't see why there would be a large supply of teachers in the Fargo area, when they can go over the river to get a 10-15% (estimate) higher payroll.

I am from Fargo of course, and I do dislike splitting our school into half, especially for the sake of our sports teams, but it just seems so radical to build a new school at this point.

Quick tangent... After looking at the populations of the schools on wikipedia, I saw the alum links. Did you notice that in 7 seasons of America's Next Top Model, 2 of them were born in North Dakota. Weird. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

[Ray77]

I see most AP classes at South disappearing with a new school. The classes (have a neighbor in the administration) are having enough trouble filling classes to a capacity that makes it feasible to have the classes as is. If you cut the number in half and put them in different schools, there's going to be some trouble keeping the classes afloat. Also, teachers in North Dakota aren't getting paid near what they get if they go across the border, so I don't see why there would be a large supply of teachers in the Fargo area, when they can go over the river to get a 10-15% (estimate) higher payroll.

I am from Fargo of course, and I do dislike splitting our school into half, especially for the sake of our sports teams, but it just seems so radical to build a new school at this point.

Quick tangent... After looking at the populations of the schools on wikipedia, I saw the alum links. Did you notice that in 7 seasons of America's Next Top Model, 2 of them were born in North Dakota. Weird. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

Where were those girls when I was in high school?!

[roper1313]

I see most AP classes at South disappearing with a new school. The classes (have a neighbor in the administration) are having enough trouble filling classes to a capacity that makes it feasible to have the classes as is. If you cut the number in half and put them in different schools, there's going to be some trouble keeping the classes afloat. Also, teachers in North Dakota aren't getting paid near what they get if they go across the border, so I don't see why there would be a large supply of teachers in the Fargo area, when they can go over the river to get a 10-15% (estimate) higher payroll.

I am from Fargo of course, and I do dislike splitting our school into half, especially for the sake of our sports teams, but it just seems so radical to build a new school at this point.

Quick tangent... After looking at the populations of the schools on wikipedia, I saw the alum links. Did you notice that in 7 seasons of America's Next Top Model, 2 of them were born in North Dakota. Weird. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

I don't know about other courses, but on the science side there are several sections of AP Biology, Chem, and physics. They may have to have ap teachers float between the two schools, we'll see. Teacher compensation in Fargo is very competitive with Moorhead. While true salary may be lower in Fargo the district pays for both the employer and employee match in to their retirement account. Plus the funding debacle over in MN would scare the heck out of me if I was a teacher in MN. How often do you see stories about teacher layoffs on the west side of the Red? In Moorhead its happend a few time in the last decade.

[OldSchool]

I don't know about other courses, but on the science side there are several sections of AP Biology, Chem, and physics. They may have to have ap teachers float between the two schools, we'll see. Teacher compensation in Fargo is very competitive with Moorhead. While true salary may be lower in Fargo the district pays for both the employer and employee match in to their retirement account. Plus the funding debacle over in MN would scare the heck out of me if I was a teacher in MN. How often do you see stories about teacher layoffs on the west side of the Red? In Moorhead its happend a few time in the last decade.

I think you guys have gotten a little off the subject.