tjamz

Ok.... I gotta step back from my big 12/10 statement. Big 12 we MIGHT have had a chance of having a winning record, B1G not as much. My comment was admittedly made to provoke some responses but was an absurd statement. I therefore retract what I stated. It was absurd and not based entirely on reality... but more on emotion. In hindsight I can't believe I actually typed it. Oops. As for my "Beat Alabama: Not likely" yes, I stand by that statement. The odds are VERY tiny that we could have. No doubt at all. Out of 1000 games they would likely beat us 999 of them if not all 1000. However, I've seen crazy things happen in football at all levels. Sometimes the little guy comes out on top over a much better team (which Alabama is) for a multitude of reasons. The odds are extremely low, but sometimes you get lucky. Plain and simple. Having said that I'd love to have seen them play each other after each won the national championship at their respective levels, even knowing that NDSU would almost certainly lose (again, barring extreme luck). EDIT: I deserve all the bashing I got on the big 12/10 comment btw.

Thanks. I come here to have fun and poke a little fun. There's seldom an issue I won't debate (I could argue either side of almost any argument) I just like to see fresh objections rather than rehashed crap over and over (from BOTH fan bases)

Fact: NDSU has won the top tier ncaa football tournament the past two years. Another fact: in doing so they had to beat a few teams in the post season and not have a computer decide who is #1 and 2 and match them up against each other for one game after having 1 month to prepare for each other. Fact: NDSU beat the team that lit up the big fluffy the past two years and could easily argue that they are the big sky champions (shsu could argue that). Fact: UND failed to even make the post season last year. Fact: I like pulling out random facts as I'm sure hayduke is getting ready to copy/paste the same statement he's made every time someone irritates him.

I think NDSU should make the move to FBS as well. I'm not delusional enough to think they'd be day one contenders for a national title, in fact they may never win another if they do move up, I just think that they could be competitive in their respective conference that they could get in to (and I know it won't be one of the 5 power conferences) but I honestly believe the top 5 conferences are going to break away from the ncaa for football (or create a new division) eventually anyway. Might as well be prepared to be in the 2nd tier and be geared up for it before that all happens. Better to be proactive than reactive.

Bigger than...maybe, but partially because there isn't another option for d1 hockey in the state so when they follow hockey it's either UND or the gophers for local teams. So you get bison fans that follow und hockey. However with regard to a dedicated fan base that will travel across the country to see a game ndsu wins that battle presently.

I still contend that college hockey is where you go if you aren't good enough to play at the highest levels right out of high school and therefore is the 2nd choice for pre-NHL athletics. Both the fcs and Ncaa produce approximately the same percentage of top tier athletes. I don't think anyone is saying fcs=fbs, though the premier athletes at both levels are very very good and sometimes the best athlete ends up @ the lower tier. Having said that I truly believe ndsu the past few years would have likely had a winning record in both the big 12 and big10 and would have likely won a couple bowl games in the process. Beat Alabama? Not likely. Won the national championship... even less likely. Ncaa hockey and fcs play at similar levels vs what is available pre-professional in their respective sports.

I care about it for historical/nostalgic reasons. But I have no desire at all to restart it (to me it'd be like hooking up with my ex-wife again)

There was nothing preventing UND from moving up at the same time.... other than a belief that it was a bad idea and that neither school would be competitive at that level. Fast forward just a couple years and add the success of ndsu and sdsu and und/USD both saw the light. Like I said, I'm not bitter about UND's decision to stop the rivalry (or rather not sign the contract to renew). I can admit that ndsu's decision to move up was the cause, but comparing it to a cheating relationship is inaccurate. It's more like the husband found a new job in a new town that paid better with more benefits but the wife divorced him because she didn't want to leave the one horse town they grew up in.... then after a couple years saw that her husband was successful so she came crawling back wanting to rekindle what they once had. But he had a new ring on his finger and wanted nothing to do with his old flame.

No... Division 2 is just division 2. Division one is as you stated: Football Championship SUBDIVISION and Football Bowl SUBDIVISION Both are just different parts of Division 1. Just like Honda and Acura are subdivisions of their parent company Honda Motor Company. Both have high quality and both have similar products and usually Acura's are higher valued.... that doesn't mean the Honda can't outperform it.

Wouldn't that then mean that the FCS title is the highest legitimate title in college football then. I mean there have been times when there was no clear winner at the FBS level most recently in 2003 when there was a split. /cue Hayduke meltdown

This "highest level" is played by several teams that aren't even division 1 in any other sport. It wasn't until this last year where I realized that there was a division III college hockey system. What happened to division II? (Serious question) I believe, but could be wrong here, that they didn't do a d2 system as there weren't enough PURE D1 schools out there to have a program that was solely Division 1 so they merged the D1 & D2 programs together so they could find 59 teams that were willing to participate at that level and rather than confuse anyone they just called the next level down division 3 as I don't believe there are any D2 schools playing D3 hockey (feel free to correct me about any of this). Now the real question is this: If the rest of the major Division 1 (FBS/BCS) conferences cared enough about hockey to even field a team and had been doing so for as long as UND do you really think UND would be as dominant at that level? I mean if 'Bama, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas State, USC, etc... all put the resources into college hockey like they do into football do you honestly think that UND would be competitive year in and year out? I know the answer to that one. But you are right, they have won at the highest level available only because a true FBS equivalent D1 Hockey doesn't exist and never will. I like UND hockey, I really do. My cousin is married to a former player, I went to a lot of his games and even wore a Sioux jersey to those games. But to call every team that is in "Division 1" hockey a division one school is foolish at best. But back to football NDSU has beaten those from the highest level at a rate of 6-3. Were they the elite powerhouses? Absolutely not, but it's not much different than bragging about winning a championship in a league that features an otherwise D3 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute as one of it's members.

Didn't read the rest of the thread (yet) but once I got to this point I had to comment/reply. You are correct on every count (about the records anyway...) And while many Bison faithful will argue that those 10 years were some of the worst years in the history of the program it doesn't change the results in the record books. As for would the fans of NDSU never have wanted the rivalry.... well the answer to that is no as well. It was a good.... nay GREAT rivalry, one of the greatest in college sports in my opinion. It shaped the future of both teams and both teams were better because of the other. However, it wasn't NDSU that decided not to play anymore..... and I can't thank your AD enough for that decision (even though I didn't like it at the time) much like I can't thank GT enough for not putting UND back on the schedule. It's the past, time to move on. Regarding the trophy. Keep it or retire it to the ND State Museum. It is an important part of the history of both programs and should be on display somewhere (I don't care if it is GF or Fargo). I'm going to sound like an arrogant ass here, but I don't care: The 10 national championships mean WAY MORE than the Nickel trophy to this fan. I watched the rivalry games growing up and while it was cool to see them and to watch the trophy being claimed by one team or the other it was MUCH more enjoyable to watch the national championships (even the ones we lost in 81 and 84). Just like I'm sure 2001 was more enjoyable than winning the nickel for your fan base.

You are correct, hence why I said I was going from memory. Thank you for correcting my statement.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be as I am going on memory alone here) but didn't UND pass up the MVFC (or maybe more accurately accepted the Big Sky invitation before the MVFC had told them yes/no) which would have restarted the rivalry on a regular basis? The point is there are many sides to every story. I'm sure there was a good reason why several years ago GT offered the every other year game and UND declined but during that time things have changed at NDSU as well, so perhaps that same contract wouldn't make sense today for NDSU. Right now I see no reason for NDSU to put UND on the schedule on a regular basis. My opinion may change at some time, but with the current conditions that is how I feel.

Not true... .you have one open spot and a chance at 12 total games. Next year is one of the rare years when this can happen.

Me too.... which is why I'm glad he's our AD.

It is a Football Conference Subdivision Championship. D-1AA makes a lot less sense than that as at least FCS signifies what is going on and why the break in divisions and whatnot. I knew more people that were confused about D-IAA than Division I FCS. Both indicate that they are Division One programs, however A vs AA is more confusing as in most cases (credit ratings, HS athletics, etc...) AA > A

I stand corrected, thank you for pointing that out to me as I honestly had no idea there was a DIII hockey.... why don't they just call it DII though?

You want TRUTH? REALLY! Ok, here it is... How many teams in TOTAL play NCAA level hockey? As far as I see it even though UND has won at the highest level, it has also won at the lowest level. If hockey was ANYWHERE near as popular as football AS A WHOLE in this country and there were as many teams playing UND would be in the exact same league they are in with football now, call it D1AA or HCS or whatever. Kinda sad that your schools team can't even compete with the JV as you like to call it while FU (I love this nickname btw, when people in Whioux jerseys ask who I cheer for I can honestly look them in the eye and say "F-U" and I believe this is acceptable, right?) is in control of it at the moment and likely will be for at least one more year. Driving through Kansas on the way back from the FCS National Championship we had numerous people tell us that they are looking forward to playing us next year and expect a tough close game when we play KSU..... you know the #5 team in the country this year on the "varsity" level. (And no, I'm NOT predicting a Bison win, but I won't rule it out) Speaking of "Varsity Level" does that mean that Class B basketball in ND is JV as well? How about 9 man, Class A, Class AA high school football? The fact is that I like hockey, love watching it... hell, I even cheer for UND hockey as I have some family ties to some former players on the team AND because I'm from North Dakota. @ Hayduke: Congrats on not being able to compete w/ the JV teams.

I get that. It IS his first year in the BSC and while he failed to produce a contender year one it will be interesting to see what year 2 brings. UND did have a tough schedule, no doubt about that at all, so while they have struggled in the season it isn't necessarily the end of the world. I recall another coach who had a 3-8 year after a very successful previous year as well.

I understand all of your frustration with him, however I don't know that firing him at this point is the route to go. Has he stunk it up as head coach his first year in the BSC? Yes.... but like others have said the offense is pretty decent and your receivers are actually pretty good. The worst parts that I'm hearing about are the o-line and defense. O-Line can probably be remedied relatively quickly next year, the defense will be a bitter harder to fix. It will likely require some defensive coaches losing their jobs and with that a full re-evaluation of who is at what starting positions in the off season. It won't happen overnight, but I think that it if Muss can start righting the ship by next season he should retain his job. If next year is worse than this year (or the same) then I think you'd have a much better case of firing him.

Good luck in this game UND. I sincerely hope you beat MSU.

Wow, give an answer to a direct question... get screamed at. I've said it before and I'll say it again I think UND v NDSU would be a closer game than anyone in Fargo (or Grand Forks maybe) would ever admit. It pains me to say that as a Bison fan, but I am a realist and I know that games don't always go as they should (see ISU).

http://nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_oneonone The computer predictions using SDSU as the Home team and NDSU as the away team have NDSU winning 68 times out of 100 based on stats/scenarios (I ran it a few more times as well and it varied from 60 to 70 percent). Is that a guarantee? No. But it does give some insight as to why it is not just NDSU fans believing in their team, it is the stats and computer models as well.

Earlier in the year they looked like they were going to be tough so the coaches/polls/computers gave them a higher ranking than they deserved based on how they played those two FBS teams, once they started losing in conference they dropped rapidly (out of the top 25 on all the polls and GPI, still rated pretty high by sagarin though last I looked)