UND-FB-FAN

Something had to lead to the disaster that was Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls wasn’t the turning point, look 2-3 years before that (2007-2009) to find your answer.

NDSU could attract more than 20k/gameday (probably 30-40k based on Fargo growth trajectory and move to FBS) but UND can’t right now, unless changes are made. This is why the Fargo media seems to pump out an article daily on the necessity of NDSU capitalizing on their current situation. It would produce more revenue for NDSU and Fargo, and leave UND further behind in the dust. It is something UND needs to heed. And something needs to be done right now, not with an approach of “it will just take more time” for UND football to catch up to NDSU football and UND hockey. So, what are the changes needed for UND? Besides obviously bigger and nicer facilities (that’s a major rate limiting step here), it’s also a culture shift; more focus and marketing toward football, bigger named opponents (go FBS), and most importantly, more wins, which will - simply put - require better coaching and recruiting. Two fold solution, as has been talked about ad nauseam: increase efforts towards football via administration hours, and increase funding (likely combination of donor dollars and reallocation). Right now, University of North Dakota athletics is taking the path of least resistance. It’s securing donor dollars purely for hockey, as there’s no significant regional resistance (competition) for hockey because NDSU doesn’t sponsor it. UND athletic dept. philosophy is basically not even attempting to compete with NDSU. It focuses on hockey and continually presses the ”easy” button. When will the approach change? Ever?

No way in hell the current athletic department philosophy would let go of a non-hockey coach with this record. This isn’t the entire problem, but it is part of the problem. What is the major problem? The culture towards non-hockey sports at UND is a major problem. It’s not just money, but also time devoted towards non-hockey sports; it’s not nearly adequate. Complacency has set in. The current administration (and coaches) know their seat won’t get hot if they are at least just average with non-hockey sports. Alumni and fans need to demand better, but they don’t; they cheer for hockey and sit in a $100M hockey arena, and all other sport support (football, basketball, baseball) is largely funneled down to NDSU and Fargo. The few remaining that support UND football and basketball are clinging to the hope that the UND athletic department and administration change their ways before there’s nothing left to salvage. UND athletics is not solely a hockey club.

NDSU didn’t accidentally become good at football like some UND fans like to think. There’s a method to the madness, and UND (and really the entire country) need to take notes and actuate to a certain degree.

Ira, NDSU and Team Makers are doing a better job on both sides of the river. We all can (again) email Tim, Steve and others, but when will the functions actually improve? When will efforts to recognize numerous “small fish” actually happen so we can collectively move football forward. I guarantee there’s a lot hidden dollars out there, but it’s not just the $; there’s also the effort piece. Despite getting the majority of funding, UND hockey also gets the majority of the work hours. It’s just too much emphasis on one sport and it shows.

Before the Ralph crazies really got ahold of everything.

I completely agree with everything you mentioned. Great post.

It’s all a matter of culture. UND students know hockey is the centerpiece and this that is where their attendance efforts lie. $100M facilities appeal to students as much as alumni/fans. UND athletic administration half-assing football is the issue for this particular problem (student attendance) as well as all other bigger problems (wins-losses, overall attendance, coaching salaries, facility deficits, alumni/booster outreach, etc.).

Simplistic approach. Salaries need to improve, yes, but you need to actually pay someone what they’re worth. Has the current staff earned an increase?

Already mentioned - catch up

“Takes time” “Tearing down a UND athletic program” Hilarious that you worship Ralph in such a way. Also, the ridiculous hyperbole shows you have no grasp on any realistic solutions. Plus, doing nothing and just waiting - since it “takes time” - is such a typical nonsensical approach to this issue. It’s wrong, by the way. Reallocation is hardly tearing something down that is already over-inflated.

Ha, that’s a good one. You proposing the REA has significantly depreciated? Certainly not to any degree where it would significantly change the underlying concept. So maybe from 100 years to break even to perhaps 50-70 years?

You’re correct, football is the #1 most profitable collegiate sport, but it requires large stadiums; not 10k-20k like FCS North Dakota and North Dakota State support.

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description. Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football.

The niche that is college hockey does not have a promising track record, particularly as the primarily funded sport. NCAA division one college basketball has significant viewership and revenue potential. Baseball, Lacrosse, and hockey all have their challenges (again, if considered as the #1). The proposed solution, as I understand this an important prerequisite for you, is less money for hockey and more for football. This seems like the more realistic option since it’s quite obvious hockey will never be replaced by football at the University of North Dakota (although this would be my second proposal since you like two).

I apologize, but @The Sicatoka actually mentioned girlfriends as an attempted slight, and I just replied truthfully, albeit perhaps too truthfully. My career path took me down a path away from coaching, but never say never. With that said, my more likely contribution is as an ongoing alumni booster / donor, like most on this board.

Hockey’s notoriety rides on the shoulders of a Vegas family. It will always be a challenge trying to sell a not-so-big-time sport as the big-time sport, but at least we can agree that football needs more prioritization. And I should clarify, the challenge will be (and has been) elevating the other sports, not hockey itself.

Perhaps you should honestly consider a trial of anti-hockey baggage, because right now your quick dismissals aren’t giving you the opportunity to experience what you’ve been missing.

But what about the self-righteous hockey mogul from Las Vegas? Do you think her family’s involvement has implications in the success you speak of, because it certainly does, and overlooking that is beyond a convenient way to navigate around controversy. And yes, UND football could desperately use a major benefactor right now to push it to the level of NDSU football. But waiting for this mysterious person to appear is going to likely take too long … Lastly, no girlfriend issues, we shared. Hockey players were good guys. Sharing is caring. Earning my degrees from UND was a “fun” time, to say the least.

The alternative is wait for football to reach hockey’s level, and that won’t happen anytime soon with the current format. Is it robbing Peter to pay Paul if Peter shouldn’t have had it in the first place? We all know the culture around UND; this scenario will never happen, but the status quo will continue to put UND football on an uphill battle. Increasing funds for football will help (no doubt), but unprecedented leadership for football is what will ultimately take it to the next level. This includes the HC, AD, President, and certain donors/boosters/alumni. Need a visionary, but it takes more than one person; need a group of special people looking out for UND football, despite hockey being the unfortunate centerpiece.

So it can be spent on *another* hockey locker room renovation? No thanks. Priorities need to be clarified. Would anyone from the Alumni Association or Champions Cub even acknowledge such donation? Based on conversations I’ve had, as well as personal experience, I doubt it. University of North Dakota needs better leadership and direction, first, then we’ll see how it goes. And as a disclaimer, this isn’t a one time donation or single donor issue; it’s a systemic issue, so don’t point the finger at me.

Ironically, you’re formulating a comprehensive evaluation, and ultimately a final assessment, based on information you received on a forum. That honestly doesn’t make me feel any better; it is quite ridiculous, actually. Aren’t we supposed to be relying on experiences, you say? And again, your reply takes my comments again out of context for your own personal gain according to your (incorrect) biases. As for “complainers, whiners, and those who seem to find fault with most people who are ‘in the arena’ succeeding or failing“, can they not ever be correct? Are their viewpoints and conclusions instantly null and void? Because the logical answer to that is of course no, yet you seem to be trying to push a false absolutism. I can’t agree with that. To transition this back over to UND, some of the complaints we hear are valid. Communication with and appreciation for certain supporters and boosters could be better. Allocation of resources/funds could be better.

This is a blatantly incorrect propaganda statement, but good try. Big Ten emphasizes and funds hockey over football? That’s laughable.

I agree with you. NDSU has a leg up on UND because they’re funding with a contemporary model that works for North Dakota. UND continues to be in a DII mindset with everything revolving around the pathetic minority sport of hockey. Now, with that said, did NDSU royally screwup with their fiscal responsibility? Absolutely, and they should be held accountable.

You clearly are not comprehensibly reading, nor truthfully considering, the issue. I’ve already addressed your concerns with previous comments. I said “we all need to look ourselves in the mirror“, but it still ultimately is not our job. It is OK to recognize and acknowledge that the University of North Dakota staff needs to do better (a lot better) with outreach and recognition.