ShilohSioux

How much larger is NDSU's statewide football, or non-hockey fan base than ours? Or is it just because they've had more success at football (particularly lately)? Maybe I don't have a pulse on all the communities in our state, but outside of Fargo I don't get the sense NDSU is that much more popular that UND. Am I out of it?

I agree we need to show we can pack the Betty before we think about playing anywhere else, but I'm stunned that we don't think we can draw more than 3,000 on a regular basis. Even if the numbers were inflated, didn't we draw much more than that back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s? Now, as a D-I program and with the Big Sky affilliation, and with a student body of more than 10K, shouldn't we expect to draw 5K-plus for most games once we get through the transition? I'm not questioning your assessment, but wondering why we (or the Bison for that matter) shouldn't be drawing more. Are people really finding that many other things to do nowadays?

But we could play some of our bigger games in the Ralph if attendance picks up, right? It wouldn't be that hard to schedule hockey and hoops around each other.

Sorry. I didn't understand that length of time posting on this forum was the litmus test for being a true UND or Sioux fan. I'll go away now.

Where were these guys a couple of years ago? Why now? This legislation might be nice for symbolism but it has the potential to really hurt us. Unless the folks at Standing Rock change their minds, keeping the name will mean sanctions from the NCAA, will lead to teams refusing to schedule us, and possibly the rescending of the invitation from the Big Sky. The NCAA, other universities, and the Big Sky are all out of the state legislature's jurisdiction. The only way this things turns around is if Standing Rock votes to allow it, and that ain't going to happen. I deeply appreciate the sentiment, but let's move on and put this nasty business behind us.

Found these numbers interesting. On a national level, they're respectable when measured against numbers from bigger programs and conferences. Still, I think we can all get about 2,000 with some success in our new conferences. North Dakota 2009-10 – 1,938 2008-09 – 2,027 2007-08 – 1,900 2006-07 – 2,048 2005-06 – 2,230 2004-05 – 2,313 2003-04 – 2,387 2002-03 – 2,566 2001-02 – 2,843 (Div. II leader) 2000-01 – 2,539 (Div. II leader) 1999-2000 – 2,546 North Dakota State 2009-10 – 1,277 2008-09 – 1,197 2007-08 – 1,553 2006-07 – 2005-06 – 1,926 2004-05 – 1,593 2003-04 – 2,512 (Div. II leader) 2002-03 – 2,805 (Div. II leader) 2001-02 – 2,430 2000-01 – 2,337 1999-2000 – 2,563 (Div. II leader) South Dakota 2009-10 – 1,120 2008-09 – 2007-08 – 2,092 2006-07 – 1,944 2005-06 – 2004-05 – 1,266 2003-04 – 2,006 2002-03 – 2001-02 – 1,645 2000-01 – 1,300 1999-2000 – 2,007 South Dakota State 2009-10 – 2,394 2008-09 – 2,803 2007-08 – 2,343 2006-07 – 2005-06 – 1,905 2004-05 – 1,473 2003-04 – 2,484 2002-03 – 2,693 2001-02 – 2,575 2000-01 – 1,884 1999-2000 – 1,884

On the Longwood thread, we moved into a discussion on attendance. Some really good observations, such as the old Friday-Saturday series vs. today's Thursday-Saturday or Saturday-Monday pairings and how that hurts when it comes to out-of-town fans. I imagine students and others are finding more things to take up their time these days too. Here's recent attendance figures for the four Dakota teams. Hopefully, with some success at the D-I level, we'll all get back to those old numbers. North Dakota 2009-10 – 1,919 2008-09 – 1,623 2007-08 – 1,865 2006-07 – 2,188 2005-06 – 2,279 2004-05 – 2,791 2003-04 – 2,550 2002-03 – 3,423 2001-02 – 3,857 2000-01 – 2,987 1999-2000 – 2,933 1991-92 – 4,943 (Div. II leader) North Dakota State 2009-10 – 2,792 2008-09 – 3,596 (Big Dance qualifier) 2007-08 – 3,034 2006-07 – 2,625 2005-06 – 2,488 2004-05 – 1,653 2003-04 – 2,440 2002-03 – 2,868 2001-02 – 2,538 2000-01 – 2,365 1999-2000 – 2,606 1984-85 – 4,873 1983-84 – 5,267 1982-83 – 6,057 (Div. II leader) 1980-81 – 5,308 (Div. II leader) South Dakota 2009-10 – 1,492 2008-09 – 2007-08 – 2,885 2006-07 – 2,795 2005-06 – 2,006 2004-05 – 2,578 2003-04 – 3,076 2002-03 – 2,533 2001-02 – 3,044 2000-01 – 2,716 1999-2000 – 3,155 South Dakota State 2009-10 – 2,204 2008-09 – 2,487 2007-08 – 2,186 2006-07 – 1,850 2005-06 – 2,070 2004-05 – 2003-04 – 3,375 (Div. II leader) 2002-03 – 3,491 2001-02 – 4,449 (Div. II leader) 2000-01 – 3,767 1999-2000 – 4,077 (Div. II leader) 1997-98 – 5,350 (Div. II leader) 1995-96 – 4,945 (Div. II leader)

Opps, good catch. Yes, that's what I thought but I took a closer look at my source and now see I also included some stats of TOTAL attendance (road and home). This is the list I should have posted. Still, the point is valid. There has been a drop off for all the Dakota schools since our heydays in Div. II. Even the Bison didn't have numbers that approached their old Div. II days a couple of years ago when they had that nice run that landed them in the Big Dance. Hopefully, we'll all turn it around over the next few years, as has happened in football. http://fs.ncaa.org/D.../Attendance.pdf North Dakota 2009-10 – 1,919 2008-09 – 1,623 1991-92 – 4,943 (Div. II leader) North Dakota State 2009-10 – 2,792 2008-09 – 3,596 1984-85 – 4,873 1983-84 – 5,267 1982-83 – 6,057 (Div. II leader) 1980-81 – 5,308 (Div. II leader) South Dakota 2009-10 – 1,492 South Dakota State 2009-10 – 2,204 2008-09 – 2,487 1997-98 – 5,350 (Div. II leader) 1995-96 – 4,945 (Div. II leader)

That's true, but all the Dakotas had larger crowds back when they were D-II powerhouses. While football numbers have increased with the move to D-I, we are not anywhere near historic numbers in men's basketball. Men's Basketball Attendance North Dakota 2009-10 – 1,919 2008-09 – 1,623 1991-92 – 4,943 (Div. II champions) North Dakota State 1986-87 – 4,820 (Div. II champions) 1982-83 – 6,057 (Div. II champions) 1981-82 – 4,385 (Div. II champions) 1980-81 – 5,308 (Div. II champions) South Dakota 1993-94 – 4,852 (Div. II champions) South Dakota State 2003-04 – 3,375 (Div. II champions) 2001-02 – 4,449 (Div. II champions) 1999-2000 – 4,077 (Div. II champions) 1997-98 – 5,350 (Div. II champions) 1996-97 – 4,423 (Div. II champions) 1995-96 – 4,945 (Div. II champions)

Attendance: 1,301? That's a shame.

We've had a brutal non-conference schedule. Can we use that to rise to the top once league play starts? What are our chances? Great West Conference Standings Chicago State 1-0 3-14 South Dakota 0-0 9-8 Texas-Pan American 0-0 8-10 NJIT 0-0 3-10 North Dakota 0-0 2-11 Houston Baptist 0-0 2-13 Utah Valley 0-1 1-14

Looks Like it's wide open. What are our chances? Great West Standings Utah Valley 1-0 8-8 South Dakota 0-0 8-9 North Dakota 0-0 6-9 NJIT 0-0 3-10 Texas-Pan American 0-0 3-14 Houston Baptist 0-0 1-13 Chicago State 0-1 3-14

I wonder how long Drake and the other non-scholarship FCS teams will want to schedule UND and the MVFC teams if they keep getting pounded like Drake has by UNI, USD and Montana State the past three years? Might not be an option down the road that we can count on.

So, is this the list (of serious suggestions)? What else has been discussed? Aviators Blizzard Cavalry Colts Hawks Jets Mallards Mavericks Mustangs Nodaks Nokotas (Horse) Nordiques Norse North Stars Outlaws Pilots Rangers Roughnecks Roughriders Shockers (as in "wheat shockers") Storm Thunder Vikings Warriors Wheat Kings Wild Wranglers

When I threw out a list of several of the names I had seen kicked around there was some pushback by those who didn't think we should go with an animal mascot. I'm not sure what timeline the committee is on, but if I were to guess, the final choices will come from the following categories, perhaps one from each: 1. Western theme -- RoughRiders, Cavalry, Mustangs, Mavericks, Outlaws, Rangers, Wranglers, Wheat Kings, Shockers 2. Aviation theme -- Pilots, Aviators, Jets 3. Weather pattern -- Blizzard, Storm, Thunder 4. Northern term -- Norse, Vikings, Nordiques, North Stars 5. State-specific identity -- Nodaks or Nokotas

Interesting outtake from this Spokesman-Review article: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/05/john-blanchette-colonial-knows-football But there are other dynamics to consider. The Big Sky

So, if I have it right, our future schedules look like this (so far): 2012 (11 games allowed) Sept. 8 -- @San Diego State Sept. 15 -- Central Arkansas One other non-league game, possibly home with St. Cloud State (Sept. 1) or @ South Dakota (Oct. 27) 8 Big Sky games, including either Montana or Montana State at home 2013 (12 games allowed) Sept. 7 -- South Dakota State TBD -- @New Mexico State 8 Big Sky games, including either Montana or Montana State at home Plus two games yet to be scheduled

Makes a lot of sense from many standpoints -- historic rivalry, peer institutions, D-I game, good crowds, similar stages in move-up process, etc.... I would love to play the Yotes every year and the games would draw good crowds at both places.

How does the NSIC do it with 14 teams (I know, they have 10 league games, but there still needs to be a process to determine who they play and don't play)?

The way Montana played this year there's absolutely no guarantee Montana would have beat a FCS team. They could have been 6-5 if they had. They lost to Weber and Cal Poly, and won three of their league games by a combined 8 points. Besides, as it was pointed out here, NDSU had to pay Wagoner 125K to come to Fargo. Montana is in a very difficult financial position at the moment (the reason why they're going to Tennessee next year). They don't have that kind of money to bring in another FCS team. There you go. That's the issue here. A lot of places can't avoid it and fill out an 11-game schedule and pay the bills. If it cost NDSU 125K to bring in one of these teams, why/how would we do that? Again, there are financial issues that trump the seven-win issue, unfortunate but that's the way of the world right now.

Maybe we'd have better luck scheduling these teams if we didn't refer to them as "cupcakes." Would you want to come to Grand Forks if that's the respect your opponent had for you?

This is the best point I've seen so far. We should be attractive to MVFC teams for a close-by non-league game, assuming we're willing to play home-and-away series.

Dan, I think we're all in agreement that the preference is to have a full DI schedule. I know I would. I think we would all like to see us play those three non league games against the other Dakota schools, MVFC teams, or even the regional non-scholly Drakes, with perhaps a FBS team thrown in most years to help with the budget or morale (witness NDSU and USD wins over the Gophers, and the Bison win over KU). But I think where some of us are disagreeing is over what is feasible. As 82SiouxGuy says, there is a huge financial driver here that may force us to play a D-II team most years even after we're post-season eligible and in the Big Sky. This finanical factor trumps even the seven-win-over-DI teams rule as it can impact whether or not programs are viable. I trust the AD and university to understand this better than we do and believe they are looking out for the program's interests. There's a reason why FCS teams like Hofstra, Northeastern, East Tennessee State, Evansville and Cal State Northridge dropped football in the past decade and it's completely related to $$$$, not the product they put on the field. And teams that are starting or resuming programs, such as Georgia State, Lamar and Old Dominion are scheduling with $$$ in mind as well. Unfortunate, perhaps, but that's the rules of the game these days.

Sure, it would be better to play a FCS team at home rather than a D-II team but unless you've been involved in negotiating schedules and payouts you might not understand how tough this can be. Most will expect some kind of payout to come here and we may not be able to afford it. And travel costs $$$ too (as someone noted, we're losing $$$ going to Idaho for 100K payout). Drake may not be able or willing to come after next year -- we don't know what's been explored or discussed. What we WANT and what we can GET may be two different things. There's a reason why all BSC teams but Weber last year played a D-II team. Montana and MSU play these games annually. We may have to as well.