dakota fairways
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Posts posted by dakota fairways
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I guess if we go without divisions, there will be years we won't play one of the Montana schools in football as we'll only be able to play 8 or 9 of the other 12 football schools. This could mean some years we play a road game in Montana but none of them at home. That will hurt attendance as I imagine those two teams will be our biggest league draws. Maybe we host NDSU those years?
For other sports, we will likely play only some of the schools twice (unless everyone agrees to a 20 game, double round-robin schedule, which I doubt). We need to get Idaho and Utah State for non-football so we can go to two divisions, or hope one of the non-Montana schools finds another conference so we can have a ten-team conference. A 13 and 11 team conference is awkward.
Is NDSU going to be that accommodating... scheduling UND at times that are convenient for the Sioux and in Grand Forks.
13 is the tough one, with or without divisional play. Fullerton was aiming for divisions before USD got the MVFC invitation, but even 7 team divisions is awkward: 6 in-division games and 3 opposite division games means there is a team you will not play for 2 seasons. Since the Sioux are happy to be in the Big Sky, what is ultimately the answer? Does the Big Sky add a team or lose a team or teams?
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UND better make sure they don't end up in a divisional setup with MT, MT St, and EWU. That would be a large playoff hurdle.
Geographically, there is no divisional alignment that would not put UND in the same division with Montana and Montana State
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Cedar Rapids Roughriders (USHL) use this image (even the colors are right) on some t-shirts:
their actual logo is a horsehead:
thank you sioux7>5 for this lead
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However some fans seem to think that the Big Sky is a multiple bid league in all sports with sold out arenas- which is is simply not the case.
I missed that... where?
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Each school made the best possible move given situation and circumstance at the time.
And the landscape will keep changing around them and each will keep acting according to their best interests.
Folks, we all need to revisit this simple concept:
What is best for NDSU may not be best for UND.
What is best for UND may not be best for NDSU.
To believe otherwise is foolhearty.
agreed. in fact, this arrangement will likely have recruiting focii in different parts of the country
The President of UM said they weren't going anywhere. If and when those 2 decide to leave, maybe to a FBS conference, UND is now in a position to go with them.There is a lot going on the West and now we can potentially be a player. I'm excited for the opportunity UND now has playing west of the Mississippi. We need to go get players.
precisely!
Centenary is essentially a DIII team this year (their last year in the league) and is huge anchor on the ratings, just by dropping them the Summit moves ahead of the Big Sky in women's RPI
So, using this logic, since UND is in transition, UND does not count against the 'new' Big Sky? I already hear your argument that USD is also in transition, so don't waste a post.
Give the Sioux a chance to recruit with the Big Sky on the schedule, the players will come. I still believe that Bozeman, Misssoula, Cedar City, Flagstaff, San Luis Obispo and almost everywhere else in the BSC give the recruits' families destinations they want to visit and will be a positive recruiting tool. Actually, Grand Forks will be the least desireable destination on the Big Sky schedule.
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[the Big Sky] is just as good as the MVFC/Summit for a school like UND that is still establishing itself in DI.
What?
The Summit would be a different story but I would never put the Big Sky on the level of the MVC brand. People around here are much more familiar with that conference and would regard it to being better than the Big Sky.
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When did I denigrate another conference? I just said that the Big Sky isn't really all that well known when compared to the MVC.
Huh?
Before NDSU & SDSU joined the Summit (Mid Con), I would be willing to go out on a limb and state that the Big Sky coverage in our area eclipsed the sum total of Gateway and MidCon coverage. When the Bison and Jackrabbits moved to D-I and began playing in the Summit and the MVFC, that all changed. Today, coverage of the Summit and Missouri Valley are relevant to and well covered in the Dakotas. But while NDSU and SDSU have been members of the Summit and MVFC, we are still exposed to the Big Sky in both national and regional sports coverage.
The Missouri Valley Conference is a strong basketball conference and I understand that the Bison are dreaming of one day being invited to the MVC, but the Bison are still playing in the Summit for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, historically the Big Sky is a strong mid major conference and has had a lot of coverage in North Dakota for many years. That is why NDSU and SDSU wanted to be invited to the Big Sky when they moved to D-I in 2004. They have made the most of their conference affiliations and probably elevated and stabilized their conferences by their presence, but admit it, the Big Sky was their first choice too.
As for strength of football conferences, you cannot claim the MVFC is stronger than the BSC. The BSC has had more FCS championship game appearances and FCS Championships than the MVFC in the last decade, two decades and three decades, pick your timeframe.
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Your reading comprehension really needs work. He said nothing like that. He said that historically (before NDSU moved up), people in this area were much more aware of the Big Sky than the MVFC. They were aware because of the Montana schools. And since those same people weren't really as aware of the MVFC, they didn't pay attention to schools like Illinois State or Missouri State. However, they did pay a little attention to Montana and Montana State. I will add that those same people were aware of UNI, but really had very little idea about who else was in a conference with UNI, whereas most people could have named at least a few of the other teams in the Big Sky.
Thank you, 82Sioux. You understood my intent exactly.
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Pretty sure Purdue is the Land Grant of Indiana, and U. Florida is the Land Grant of Florida.
Just because a school has "state" after its name doesn't mean it is the State's land grant university (ex FSU, Idaho State, Missouri St etc )
Sorry, guess I didn't do my research very well. I have never heard of a sea-grant or space-grant university before.
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Considering where USD is located and the size of their athletic budget, it would seem that they are in the conference they wanted to be in all along. I also feel that the Sioux are in the conference they want to be in. As big as the Big Sky's footprint is, it isn't any bigger, especially when it comes to basketball, than the Great West.
As for NDSU, it seems like there are more flagship/land grant separations than there are parallel affiliations in athletic conferences. The Iowa/Iowa State, Colorado/Colorado State type arrangements in different conferences outnumber the Kansas/Kansas State, Arizona/Arizona State affiliations, so why do North Dakota and North Dakota State have to play in the same conference? If the ADs want to have an OOC game that will pack fans to the rafters, they will see to it that the Sioux/Bison rivalry is restarted. If not, life will go on as it has since NDSU moved to D-I in 2004. The other thing about those divergences of schools between conferences, almost every split has put the flagship school in the more respected conference than the land grant - for example Indiana/Indiana State, Florida/Florida State, Utah/Utah State. The list goes on with very few that can be argued - Iowa and Iowa State come to mind (Big Ten 12 vs Big 12). UND and NDSU playing in different conferences can also be viewed in that light. At best (from NDSU's point of view), the Summit/MVFC combination may be considered in the same light as the Big Sky, expecially with the conference's presence in the region due to the Dakota schools affiliating with them, but, historically, the Big Sky has been viewed as a more prestigious conference by the residents of our area, like Colorado being in the Big 12 (or now, the Pac 12) while Colorado State is in the Mountain West. Seriously, how many people knew what conference Illinois State or Missouri State was in before the Bison joined the MVFC? But nearly everyone could have told you what conference Montana State is in.
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The premise by Star City (50 posts ago) was . . . NDSU will be forced to join a western conference due to all the oil money and support in western ND, or that NDSU would be crazy not to try to join the Big Sky because of the western ND money and support which they will miss out on. NDSU is probably trying to explore a move west right now as we speak, they'd be crazy not to. Secret meeting are being held as NDSU begs UND officials for their support in a move westward. If NDSU can't get into the big sky, they will go Dac10 to lock into a ND and western conference. Is that close Star City? I made up the Dac10 thing and the secret meetings.
My premise . . . western ND oil will have no impact on NDSU conference affiliation, but will help support the entire NDSBHE budgets and bring growth to the state. NDSU will continue to connect itself to the entire state of ND through its programs and Ag extension efforts. Star City has way too much time on his hands and would be better served to speculate on the next move the Big East or Pac 12.
My premise . . . und will stay in the sky, and ndsu will stay in the Summit/Valley, but the odds are much greater that und would move east to save 1.5 million in travel and join the other 3 dakota U's before ndsu would ever consider a move west.
Herd, you may very well be right. NDSU is about farming (and ranching), so they would not look to the oilfields and think there is support for the Bison there. The SBoHE budget will trickle down to all schools and will, indeed, be fed by oil money, so what's the big deal? I also do not know about where alumni go from either school, but maybe NDSU needs the Illinois, Kansas City, Tulsa connections more than UND does? Not making a statement here, just asking a question.
You are also probably right that NDSU will not look to the Big Sky for membership. Since the Sioux got there first, the egos in Fargo would not allow the Bison to "follow" the Sioux into the Big Sky, no matter the consequences. If that is the case, so be it.
On the other hand, if the WAC survives, and I think it will rise once again from the ashes (they have been given up for dead at least twice before), the Big Sky is one of the main sources for the WAC and with that comes an FBS conference home. How many teams have moved to FBS from the MVFC/Gateway? Western Kentucky is the only one I can think of offhand. The story has been different with the Big Sky/WAC/MWC (Idaho, Boise, Nevada Reno, not to mention the open invitation to Montana that has been turned down again and Gonzaga and Cal State Northridge in basketball), so NDSU can go ahead and stay in the MVFC/Summit while the Sioux groom for an FBS upgrade sometime in the next decade or so. Who knows, maybe UND will be like Montana and decide the Big Sky is better than FBS, like the Bison have decided that the Summit is better than the Big Sky.
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One of the first Alaskan bush pilots was a graduate of UND from Hatton, named Carl Ben Eielson. He started air mail in Alaska, was one of the first to fly over the north pole and died flying a rescue mission to a stranded freighter off the Siberian coast. So, how about Bush Pilots? Still not my favorite, though.
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WIU is a football school, why would they leave the MVFC for the OVC (which has not had a playoff win in a long time)
just look at the posts from Idaho & San Jose State fans about the new WAC. Without tougher competition, postseason games will be something they can now hope for.
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Ever heard of corporate sponsors?
you mean like Sanford or Scheels?
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Conference realignment on a smaller scale: Dickinson and Jamestown have been invited to the Montana to Oregon Frontier Conference in NAIA. Minot is looking to join the Minnesota based D-II Northern Sun. Where can Mayville and Valley CIty go? MIAC and Great Plains Conference are private schools, Upper Midwest Conference is a long ways away. Its not like either Mayville or Valley City are national powers in fb or bb, but Mayville is almost always competitive in baseball. Hate to see them facing a future with less prospects than Idaho.
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just curious about this forum's reaction to the domino effect of the rumor surrounding Tennessee State being invited to the SWAC. This creates an opening in the OVC. Rumor is that one of the leading candidates for moving to the OVC is Western Illinois. This would create an opening in the Summit/Missouri Valley. Opportunity for the Sioux to join the other 4 Dakota schools or for Nebraska Omaha to move to D-I? It would actually disappoint me if the Sioux dropped the Big Sky in favor of taking the Western Illinois vacancy. What do you say?
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Then why is this thread still alive? Fact is most of you are still trying to convince yourselves that the BSC is the place to be.
so you can keep trollin' and hopin' for tidbit of news that NDSU will get invited to the game too
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The Big Sky might also be the only long-term way into FBS. NDSU in the Summit and MFVC may have painted itself into a corner.
Big Sky has been a better breeding ground for the FCS, if that is something the Bison are hoping for. On the other hand, in this part of the country, FCS is still the biggest football game in town, so maybe the Bison are content to aim for the MVC as their ultimate goal. If that is the case, a conference home equal to the Big Sky is the highest level the Bison are hoping to achieve, anyway, so why wait, holding their breath and hoping for a MVC invitation somewhere down the road?
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Yeah, like it has put Northern Colorado, Portland State, UNA, etc. in the spotlight.
I'm not saying the MVFC/Summit would put UND any more in the spotlight, but some UND fans thinking that the Big Sky equivalent to the Big Ten or Big 12 in the eyes of the rest of the country is just naive. Making the Big Dance or FCS playoffs will put you in the spotlight, and it doesn't matter which conference you went through to get there.You are right, it will take wins to put the Sioux in the spotlight, not just being in the Big Sky. However, I think you missed my point - UND has been at a huge disadvantage trying to recruit since the Bison had such a big head start in D-I. The Sioux now have a home in a respected D-I conference and the recruiting competition should be less one-sided. Your comment that it doesn't matter which conference you go through to get to the big dance sounds like an off-handed admission that the Bison got to March Madness because the Summit was weaker than the BSC is. The Bison and the Jackrabbits bolstered what was a weak Mid-Con and the Summit is now a decent League, but the BSC is already a very good FCS conference and the Sioux will learn to win in the Big Sky, just as they have learned to win in the old NCC and the WCHA.
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So, UNO to the Summit/MVFC. Actually makes sense... Omaha is a stepping stone to Kansas City & Tulsa from Vermillion, Brookings and Fargo. Good I-29 connection. I still doubt that Omaha is in Fullerton's sights. Even though NDSU & Idaho aren't publicly seeking membership in the Big Sky, they are both better fits than Omaha.
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from bisonville.com
"12-14-2004, 01:32 AM
WYOBISONMAN
Senior Member
Bisonville Hall of Fame
Re: Any news out of Salt Lake City?
No 1234.....it is still the best fit. Any other conference is a sloppy second. I suspect the core of the Sky....MSU, Montana, EWU, Weber, ISU supported us. I suspect the major opposition came from the weakest schools.....Portland State and Sac State."
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"12-14-2004, 03:46 PM
WYOBISONMAN
Senior Member
Bisonville Hall of Fame
Re: Any news out of Salt Lake City?
I too will hold out longshot hopes of the Sky. Best of luck to Chapman and Taylor. I also think a huge number of the Montana and Montana State fans are disgusted with this move also. But......in the end.....if the mid-Con comes calling....we have to go with them and work on strengthening the Great West."
WYOBISONMAN, on 13 December 2004 - 06:04 PM, said:This is not good news. I guess now we have to look at a lesser conference like the Mid-Con.
WYO, you sure are the source of some great quotes!
If the offer comes, NDSU may turn it down, but they would have to think hard about an invitation to the Big Sky.
Idaho & San Jose will resist FCS as long as they possibly can, and may even go independent instead of moving to FCS. Wyoming Cowboys would also be a good fit, but they won't make the move to FCS, either - especially since they are not in the WAC.
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Omaha. Travel partner by plane. The DI moratorium on move-ups will be over later in the year, but any DII school would need a conference invite to move up.
Unless NDSU is reconsidering, which I highly doubt.
You still have to fly through MSP. I don't think this sounds like they are thinking Nebraska Omaha. The "ideal" travel partner for UND must be Minnesota Crookston.
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Didn't a guy named Corban Knight start his Fighting Sioux obsession by a cool hat he saw at an airport or something... the fighting sioux hat, which eventually led to being a fighting sioux? Obviously hes talented but would he have gone to UND before another school without that cool logo and nickname becoming his favorite for no apparent reason? at 9 or 10 years old or whatever he was???
I would be willing to bet the Bennett Brien will create another artistic logo for UND that will look every bit as good on a cap for the new nickname, whether a Roughrider, Nokota or even a Roughneck. One of the really appealing things about the Fighting Sioux logo is that it stands by itself and it is readily identified without the need for the Sioux name sprawling across it like so many nicknames.
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The WAC would be down to:
San Jose St
Idaho
N Mexico St
Denver
UTSA
Texas St
more likely, huh?
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So at what point does the WAC start looking more closely at Seattle, and then even Utah Valley and UT-PanAm? It seems to me they are approaching a point where they just need any warm bodies to join. Lamar has to be in the cross-hairs now don't they?
To survive what has gone on with the WAC, they should be pleading with Sacramento St, Portland St & Seattle U. Add those 3 markets and the conference may be able to survive. Also, for those schools, FBS level should help them elevate their coverage in their cities. Yes, the U of Washington is in Seattle and Oregon St is only half an hour out of Portland, but moving the commuter schools to FBS may give them a chance to compete for a little media coverage. On top of that, the divisional breakdown should be to Sac St & Portland's liking, since they are complaining about UND. Then add Lamar and you have an easy conference divisional split.
The Nordiques
in UND Nickname
Posted
A Nordique is a Native Canadian from northern Quebec. Doubt it will pass the PC test. Then again, the US has always treated Canadians differently, so maybe the NCAA would be ignorant of the source of the name.