Bison06

Remember this morning when you denied defending and downplaying Antifa's actions?

Most reasonable people agree there are limits on what could and should be done legally. In a free society, the line between legal and illegal will always be in flux and hotly debated. It's a foundational principal of a functioning society. However, just because rules exist to limit freedoms, we can't say that because the precedent is set to limit freedoms that additional limits should be implemented without question or debate. Reasonable people will disagree about where the line needs to be drawn now until eternity.

What you don't realize(or maybe you do) is your logic has always applied to people's risk in society, you just haven't focused on it until the media told you to. Thinking this way used to be seen as a sickness in it's own right, you're afraid of other people, afraid of what the world might do to you. It's not healthy.

Your logic would only follow if people were somehow forced to interact with others. In 2020, if you want to never be in the same room as another human, you don't have to. If you're scared or believe you are at risk due to pre-existing conditions then don't go. Let the rest of us live our lives and decide what our own risk tolerance is.

I'll answer that this way. If I have a severe peanut allergy, I can control my own environment. I can make sure that nothing enters my home or my vehicle or any other space I have control over. Furthermore, I can make rules for those who want to be around me in my spaces that they will follow those to a T or I will be very sick and/or die. If however, I decide to go to a grocery store or a football game, I don't have the right to ask every person in the store or in the stadium to follow my rules. I, in those situations, have to protect myself from the part of the world that leaves me vulnerable. This is exactly how I suggest people handle Covid-19.

I find that people's level of wanting to get back to normal is in direct proportion to how directly their life has been affected by the lockdowns. If you live in a county in Minnesota with zero deaths or near zero deaths, can you understand the pure fury and rage you would feel if you've gone bankrupt over this? When my son can go to preschool with no mask on, students everywhere doing what kids do, breathing on each other swapping spit and other bodily fluids because of poor hygiene, but he can't go to kindergarten under the exact same circumstances. When I can enroll my son in a private school kindergarten, literally across the street from the public school he should be allowed to go into. Yeah, when all of these logically ridiculous occurrences are taking place in the name of keeping people safe when all those people would have to do is protect themselves, I'm gonna be slightly upset and I think it's justified.

I agree, the statistics clearly point to more deaths than expected. However, there can be other explanations for the increase or at least a portion of the increase. Patients stopped chemo, patients stopped controlling their diabetes diligently, patients stopped taking lifesaving medications, patients stopped seeking medical care for a lot of different conditions that could also lead to more deaths than were expected. I guess someday we'll find out, but I see what we've done as an overreaction that will have far reaching negative affects for years and years to come.

It's impossible to know. In my mind it's high enough to believe that the death toll is being over-counted, though I admittedly have a bias as I want to be done with this and let people get back to their lives.

No, of course not. I simply do not buy the notion that this virus is as deadly as we are being told, I think we have massively overreacted for political reason and I'm tired of watching lives being ruined. We can't beat death. We have to decide how much risk we are willing to take in our lives and decide to let others do the same within reason. We have to be done with this.

And Covid deaths are counted when someone tests positive for the virus, even if that test is flawed, and then die from complications. So if they are counted in different ways why do people continue to say Covid deaths far outweigh Influenza deaths when it's not an apples to apples comparison and is somewhat irrelevant?

It doesn't take into account everything I'm talking about. Influenza numbers as you say are estimated(underestimated, which is agreed upon by every expert) by a mathematical formula as you've said, that's true. But if we are counting Covid deaths as someone who dies and also has a Covid positive test, yet we have damn good evidence to support that many of these positive tests are false positives, it becomes quite clear that can lead to a serious problem. The truth is, we wont know until 2022 or 2023 when the 2020 death statistics are compiled if these deaths being counted as Covid, because they tested positive for it, are truly causing an increase in deaths or if they are simply replacing the deaths that would be counted in other categories in previous years.

How do you think influenza deaths are counted each year? Hint: it isn't by having influenza listed on the death certificate like it is with covid.

And even with the latest CDC clarification on the unique nature of their counting of deaths, you continue to believe this?

And this asymptomatic spread is at a higher rate than other respiratory viruses that we've lived with our entire lives?

Just another group of experts that you choose to ignore?

America is in flames because of Trump is the laziest argument point I've heard from the left in years. Racism, invented by Trump. Police issues, invented by Trump. Virus, invented by Trump. You're ill, seek help.

So when the WHO came out and said that asymptomatic carrier spread was "extremely rare", that didn't change anything in your mind about this notion?

So if two expert groups come out in opposition to each other, how do you personally choose who to believe?

Leftist BS logic. Let's force a lockdown of the entire country economically(antithetical to what Trump wanted) and when the economy tanks we'll keep repeating the mantra "This is Trumps America" You're like a child who shits his pants and then blames it on his little sister who told him to go sit on the toilet before soiling himself.

So the CDC comes out with recommendations that the director of the CDC disagrees with? What sort of show are they running over there?

There have been a few isolated cases of 'recatching" covid. Let's not spread that propaganda around. If testing is flawed, did they really "recatch" it or did they not have it to begin with? Or not have it a second time. Additionally, if we can't provide sufficient antibodies through contracting the wild virus than a vaccine will be useless anyway. You can't have it both ways on immunity.

My guess is political pressure. This back and forth alone should tell anyone who's paying attention that decisions are not being made based on science or public health, but on politics. That should disturb people, but apparently it doesn't.

I heard from two more people yesterday who tested positive(zero symptoms) and then retested the following day and got a negative. This testing is somehow fatally flawed, more testing is simply leading to fear. It isn't changing anything and is completely unprecedented. We are well past a place where we can isolate cases and stop this from coursing through society. It is now an endemic virus and is here to stay. Shutting down, masking etc. These are simply delaying the inevitable and come with MASSIVE negative effects on our society. When do you personally say it'll be time to get back to "precovid normal"? What criteria are you basing your opinion on?

Biden is a self proclaimed socialist and yes, you've been supporting antifa and downplaying their destruction for months. You're such a coward that you can't even stand by your own convictions. Edit: I typed Biden, but I meant Sanders

Do you honestly not see how logically flawed your discussion point is right now? Trump has disagreed with the CDC at nearly every turn for the past 6 months and when the CDC makes a recommendation he happens to agree with you say it's him behind the scenes pulling the strings. So did his influence over this agency just recently come into effect? If so, explain how that happened.