Bison06

Agree to disagree you clown. They are all pieces of sh$t.

I find it interesting that the longer this thread exists the more it is solidified and proven that all politicians are corrupt, morally and otherwise. If we can agree on that, maybe we can stop with the petty, he said something mean, he’s mentally unfit etc etc garbage. Maybe it behooves us to actually vote for politicians based on policy. This is my justification for voting for Trump. He’s a trash human being, in a political sea of equally trash human beings. So vote based on what is being done policy wise and in that way, I think Trump is superior to Biden.

Looks like Hayduke’s competency in reading comprehension is only exceeded by his copy and pasting skills.

Exactly. Someone more well versed in these things would be able to explain it more eloquently than me, but the media isn’t concerned with true or false, they know that with the way people consume media these days, that sewing discord and doubt is enough to sway minds. A cleverly written headline that is outright refuted in the body of the article has become so common that reading headlines is basically worthless. The media is at an all time low.

But Biden is right?

Because that’s how you run a profitable hospital. You won’t hear this on CNN, but hospitals are always near capacity for ICU beds.

Calling the things he says lies is disingenuous from the media. Trump’s speaking style is imprecise and has a tendency to embellish and exaggerate and that is a problem, no doubt. But, some of the things they’ve said he’s lied about are ridiculous, because they aren’t even things that can be properly falsified. eg. “we have the best economy in the history of the world” that counts as one of the 20k lies the media are counting. But who the hell cares, it’s the best in some ways and in others it isn’t. Is that a lie? Nope. Turn off CNN just for a couple of minutes one day and you may see things more clearly.

Guess we’ll see, still think lefties are being overconfident.

Don’t kid yourself, regardless of the outcome, this election will end with lawsuits. If you think it’s only Trump setting the stage for that, you aren’t paying attention. We won’t know who the president will be before Christmas.

What's the most disturbing to me, is she has been playing the game so long, she realizes that even though it is on video and there is ZERO excuse for her to be breaking the rules she put in place, if she denies it she'll get away with it no problem. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

So typical. The ruling class in our country disgusts me.

Direct questions seem to be difficult for Hayduke. He prefers to speak in the language of memes and political one-liners.

Remember this morning when you denied defending and downplaying Antifa's actions?

Most reasonable people agree there are limits on what could and should be done legally. In a free society, the line between legal and illegal will always be in flux and hotly debated. It's a foundational principal of a functioning society. However, just because rules exist to limit freedoms, we can't say that because the precedent is set to limit freedoms that additional limits should be implemented without question or debate. Reasonable people will disagree about where the line needs to be drawn now until eternity.

What you don't realize(or maybe you do) is your logic has always applied to people's risk in society, you just haven't focused on it until the media told you to. Thinking this way used to be seen as a sickness in it's own right, you're afraid of other people, afraid of what the world might do to you. It's not healthy.

Your logic would only follow if people were somehow forced to interact with others. In 2020, if you want to never be in the same room as another human, you don't have to. If you're scared or believe you are at risk due to pre-existing conditions then don't go. Let the rest of us live our lives and decide what our own risk tolerance is.

I'll answer that this way. If I have a severe peanut allergy, I can control my own environment. I can make sure that nothing enters my home or my vehicle or any other space I have control over. Furthermore, I can make rules for those who want to be around me in my spaces that they will follow those to a T or I will be very sick and/or die. If however, I decide to go to a grocery store or a football game, I don't have the right to ask every person in the store or in the stadium to follow my rules. I, in those situations, have to protect myself from the part of the world that leaves me vulnerable. This is exactly how I suggest people handle Covid-19.

I find that people's level of wanting to get back to normal is in direct proportion to how directly their life has been affected by the lockdowns. If you live in a county in Minnesota with zero deaths or near zero deaths, can you understand the pure fury and rage you would feel if you've gone bankrupt over this? When my son can go to preschool with no mask on, students everywhere doing what kids do, breathing on each other swapping spit and other bodily fluids because of poor hygiene, but he can't go to kindergarten under the exact same circumstances. When I can enroll my son in a private school kindergarten, literally across the street from the public school he should be allowed to go into. Yeah, when all of these logically ridiculous occurrences are taking place in the name of keeping people safe when all those people would have to do is protect themselves, I'm gonna be slightly upset and I think it's justified.

I agree, the statistics clearly point to more deaths than expected. However, there can be other explanations for the increase or at least a portion of the increase. Patients stopped chemo, patients stopped controlling their diabetes diligently, patients stopped taking lifesaving medications, patients stopped seeking medical care for a lot of different conditions that could also lead to more deaths than were expected. I guess someday we'll find out, but I see what we've done as an overreaction that will have far reaching negative affects for years and years to come.

It's impossible to know. In my mind it's high enough to believe that the death toll is being over-counted, though I admittedly have a bias as I want to be done with this and let people get back to their lives.

No, of course not. I simply do not buy the notion that this virus is as deadly as we are being told, I think we have massively overreacted for political reason and I'm tired of watching lives being ruined. We can't beat death. We have to decide how much risk we are willing to take in our lives and decide to let others do the same within reason. We have to be done with this.

And Covid deaths are counted when someone tests positive for the virus, even if that test is flawed, and then die from complications. So if they are counted in different ways why do people continue to say Covid deaths far outweigh Influenza deaths when it's not an apples to apples comparison and is somewhat irrelevant?

It doesn't take into account everything I'm talking about. Influenza numbers as you say are estimated(underestimated, which is agreed upon by every expert) by a mathematical formula as you've said, that's true. But if we are counting Covid deaths as someone who dies and also has a Covid positive test, yet we have damn good evidence to support that many of these positive tests are false positives, it becomes quite clear that can lead to a serious problem. The truth is, we wont know until 2022 or 2023 when the 2020 death statistics are compiled if these deaths being counted as Covid, because they tested positive for it, are truly causing an increase in deaths or if they are simply replacing the deaths that would be counted in other categories in previous years.

How do you think influenza deaths are counted each year? Hint: it isn't by having influenza listed on the death certificate like it is with covid.

And even with the latest CDC clarification on the unique nature of their counting of deaths, you continue to believe this?