Matt

Than of course you've got the Griz and how many points are you giving me?

There's been a lot of discussion about this game and how close it was, and I agree with that. But there's something bigger at play here. Go back and look and ndsu's games from 2010-now. There are a ton of what we would generally refer to as "close" games there, particularly conference games. My point is, at this level, the difference between winning and losing is small. You don't just blow out the tenth through 4th place teams in your conference, and then have one or two close games at the top. A decent team like UND in a power conference shouldn't get blown out by the #6 team in the country at home. Now, obviously given the blowouts last year UND fans feel fortunate to be close, but ultimately to turn the corner the program must learn how to win those close games vs good teams. That includes an FBS game at some point.

http://www.soconsports.com/fls/4000/socon/FCS/polls/2013/2013_FCS_Coaches_Poll/index.html North Dakota State Remains No. 1, Towson enters Top-Five in FCS Coaches Poll SPARTANBURG, S.C. – North Dakota State sits atop the FCS Coaches Poll, earning a unanimous No. 1 ranking for the second consecutive week. The Bison (650 points) dropped Ferris State 56-10 on Saturday and have held the No. 1 ranking since Nov. 5, 2012. Eastern Washington (624) and Montana State (576) also stayed firm at No. 2 and No. 3, respectively, while Towson (540) made its debut in the top five at No. 4. Sam Houston State dropped down one spot to the fifth after falling to Texas A&M on the road. South Dakota State moved up the rankings following its win over North Dakota and settled in at No. 6 with 498 points, just ahead of Central Arkansas (503). Northern Iowa swapped positions with New Hampshire this week, moving from ninth to eighth after New Hampshire fell to Central Michigan 24-21. Wofford (363) rounded out the top 10. Richmond (349) remains in the No. 11 slot this week. Eastern Illinois (346), Stony Brook (341), Cal Poly (334) and Montana (255) make up the rest of the top 15. Illinois State (238) moved to No. 16, with James Madison (216) falling next in line. McNeese State moved to No. 18 after receiving 212 points, with Lehigh (190) and Villanova (166) finishing up the top 20. Coastal Carolina (138), Bethune-Cookman (124) and Youngstown State (104) all boast 2-0 records and are No. 21, No. 22 and No. 23 this week, respectively. Northern Arizona remains No. 24 with 59 points, with Eastern Kentucky closing out the rankings with 54 votes this week. The FCS Coaches Poll is based exclusively on a voting panel of head coaches in the FCS under the cooperation of the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA) and the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) and is administered by the Southern Conference. Team (No. 1 Votes) Record Points Previous Rank 1. North Dakota State (25) 2-0 650 1 2. Eastern Washington 2-0 624 2 3. Montana State 1-1 576 3 4. Towson 2-0 540 6 5. Sam Houston State 1-1 526 4 6. South Dakota State 2-0 517 7 7. Central Arkansas 1-1 503 5 8. Northern Iowa 2-0 462 9 9. New Hampshire 0-1 421 8 10. Wofford 1-1 363 14 11. Richmond 1-1 349 12 12. Eastern Ilinois 2-0 346 16 13. Stony Brook 1-0 341 13 14. Cal Poly 1-1 334 10 15. Montana 1-0 255 18 16. Illinois State 1-0 238 27 17. James Madison 1-1 216 15 18. McNeese State 2-0 212 20 19. Lehigh 1-0 190 19 20. Villanova 0-2 166 11 21. Coastal Carolina 2-0 138 22 22. Bethune-Cookman 2-0 124 23 23. Youngstown State 2-0 104 25 24. Northern Arizona 0-1 59 24 25. Eastern Kentucky 1-1 54 21 Others receiving votes: Maine 29, Southern Utah 18, Fordham 18, Samford 13, Delaware 11, Penn 8, North Carolina A&T 7, UT Martin 6, Northwestern State 4, Harvard 3, William and Mary 2, Indiana State 2, Jacksonville 2, Portland State 2, Colgate 1, Jacksonville State 1, Tennessee State 1

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/cfoot225poll.aspx The Sports Network FCS Top 25 College Football Poll Team (First-place votes) 2013 Record Points Previous Rank 1. North Dakota State Bison (146) 2-0 3769 1 2. Eastern Washington Eagles (6) 2-0 3639 2 3. Montana State Bobcats 1-1 3234 3 4. Towson Tigers 2-0 3233 5 5. Sam Houston State Bearkats 1-1 3033 4 6. South Dakota State Jackrabbits 2-0 2941 6 7. Northern Iowa Panthers 2-0 2855 9 8. Central Arkansas Bears 1-1 2461 7 9. Eastern Illinois Panthers 2-0 2218 14 10. Georgia Southern Eagles 2-0 2203 10 11. Montana Grizzlies 1-0 2073 13 12. New Hampshire Wildcats 0-1 1944 11 13. McNeese State Cowboys 2-0 1789 18 14. Cal Poly Mustangs 1-1 1663 12 15. Richmond Spiders 1-1 1645 15 16. Wofford Terriers 1-1 1573 16 17. Stony Brook Seawolves 1-0 1482 17 18. Illinois State Redbirds 0-1 1100 19 19. Villanova Wildcats 0-2 978 8 20. James Madison Dukes 1-1 944 20 21. Coastal Carolina Chanticleers 2-0 712 24 22. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 1-0 603 23 23. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 2-0 580 25 24. Youngstown State Penguins 2-0 551 NR 25. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 0-1 523 22 Others receiving votes: Delaware 269, Samford 206, Southern Utah 185, Eastern Kentucky 159, Fordham 122, William & Mary 101, North Carolina A&T 81, Maine 66, UT Martin 64, Jacksonville State 62, Chattanooga 43, Appalachian State 40, Penn 38, Southern Illinois 29, Southeastern Louisiana 28, North Dakota 24, South Dakota 19, Harvard 18, Albany 15, Western Illinois 14, Northwestern State 14, Tennessee State 14, Liberty 10, Nicholls 9, Arkansas-Pine Bluff 8, Indiana State 6, Gardner-Webb 4, Murray State 2, The Citadel 1, South Carolina State 1, Sacramento State 1, Portland State 1

ndsu fans probably call this Karma.

I'm gonna guess the MSU staff would disagree with you about that.

Coaches always say about those FBS games...you just hope to come out of it healthy.

I know you weren't, and I agree with your assessment of Sumner. My point is that you can have average QB play in the equation and have a lot of success.

UND 2012: Elite Passing game + below average run game + inept defense= losing record UND 2013: 2 unproven freshman QBs fighting for a starting spot + elite receivers + no running game + barely average defense= who knows?

Average QB + elite run game + good defense = FCS playoffs and top ten ranking.

I have no complaints if Joe starts vs Montana. My problem with this whole process is it goes to the "if you have two QBs, you have no QB" paradigm. If Joe struggles vs Montana, then what? Back to Bartels? Do they go back and forth like that all year?

Coaches, and by that I mean ANY coaches, go with the player they think will give them the best chance to win NOW. There is no long term calculation you are referring to. If they don't win now, they won't be the coach in the long term. This is also evidenced by the way they talk about everything. One play at a time, only focused on this week's opponent, etc. If Joe starts this week it is because they believe he gives them the best chance to beat Montana.

If the staff agreed with that I can't imagine why they would have started Bartels vs Valpo and SDSU in the first place.

It's too early to say how the jacks compare to UM, MSU, or EWU. Based on last year I'd say they are not as good as EWU or MSU, but better than Montana.

If Muss was coming off a national championship, I don't think you'd be seeing the same criticism. Conversely, if Harbaugh had Muss' record, I really don't believe he'd still be coaching there.

Maybe. And maybe he fumbles the snap. Or maybe Zenner busts another one. We can go round and round.

We've seen them both, which one is better?

They didn't take a knee until the last play anyway. Zenner was running effectively on that last drive, and they chose to take a knee even though he only needed one yard to break the record.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/272644/ Wayne doesn't directly quote Muss here, but for him to write this Wayne must have gotten something off the record-at least until the staff breaks down the film. There also seems a lot of folks here readily pointing out Bartels' mistakes while glossing over his good plays. It should be noted that Joe ended what could have been a game tying drive by forcing a ball into coverage. Two guys got a hand on that ball, and they were both Jacks. He is a great athlete with a great arm, but what Joe showed me is exactly why I suspect Bartels got the start coming out of camp. Joe is prone (as most freshman are want to do) to making bad decisions because he thinks his arm will bail him out. If Joe tightens that up, I think this QB controversy will be over quickly.

Forget the picture quality, the camera work was atrocious. Zoom in, zoom out. Pan left, then right. It was all over the place. Then when they did settle in, it was wayyyyy too close. You couldn't get a vision of how the play was unfolding because the focus was on an individual player or the ball. Hands down the worst football game production I've watched. On a positive note, there's no where to go but up from here.

The difficulty with that thinking is this: let's say the delay penalty was called, and the jacks punt. Mollberg still threw into coverage and got picked. There is no logical link between the delay penalty being called and changing the ensuing decisions of Mollberg. You might as well pick any play in the game to change, and then believe the rest of the ensuing events would change. Don't mess with the space-time continuum.

As muss talked about in camp, their arms don't really set one apart from the other. To me Joe just seems to move with more purpose and coincidence. He was even barking at the guys in the huddle. They both made some bad decisions tonight, but they are freshman. It will take a while.

I tend to agree with you, but the stuff about the team not quitting has got to stop. That's an absurdly low bar. That's a bar you set for little kids, not scholarship players and coaches at this level.

Any idea why there's no fan line on the radio network after the game?

I would think beating them would have done that.