Yote 53

Wrestling, gymnastics, basketball, soccer, tennis, baseball...actually the only sport that has not become "specialized" is football. Football coaches will take any athlete they can and make them a football player because most football programs are struggling for bodies these days. USA Hockey preaches playing multiple sports, then runs their camps in the spring and summer. If your kid is young have them play as many sports as possible. As they get older and into high school age, if you want to play at a high level, it becomes almost impossible to play three sports. Two sports max, and that becomes difficult if it's a sport like baseball where gym work started in January. All sports are guilty of pushing specialization.

South Dakota High School hockey is not a varsity sponsored sport by the SDHSAA. It is club based and registered/rostered under USA Hockey's high school division. It's one of the reasons teams from South Dakota/Iowa/Nebraska cannot schedule Minnesota teams for regular season games. Because they are not HS varsity sports. As to the expansion of HS hockey in NoDak, does it being a Varsity sponsored sport actually hinder it's expansion? When you are dealing with school districts and athletic departments things like resources, budgets, and even Title 9 come into play.

"Full season" in this context refers to playing the entire hockey season on one team as opposed to Team North Dakota Before/After and HS season, not year round. The season runs from Sept-March. Also, we're talking about midgets here, 15-18 year olds, at that age kids across all sports have started to specialize, including hockey, and it falls in line with USA Hockey's LTAD model. I'm not talking about Squirt or Pee Wee hockey here. The way it is right now, between the fall elite league/AAA hockey in the fall, winter hockey, spring camps/clinics/tryouts, and summer Junior tryouts, if you are an upper level player in the 16-18 year old range that is looking to play hockey beyond high school (junior/college) you are on the ice 10-11 months of the year.

Would NDAHA allow full season Midget AAA in Grand Forks/Fargo? There is already the Team North Dakota B/A program, but they seem to be falling behind the Sioux Falls Power AAA as of late. It would definitely impact the quality of HS hockey in North Dakota. One could argue that between USHL, NAHL, and Sioux Falls AAA program that is already happening so might as well provide a full season opportunity closer to home. Be careful with this. The quality of the Midwest High School League in Iowa has been destroyed because all of the best players now leave to play for Omaha, Iowa Wild, Sioux Falls, Madison, etc. AAA programs. In order to have a chance to play meaningful junior, or someday college, hockey players know HS hockey is not a viable option. It's too bad, really.

I attribute the rise in level of play to the internet. Player development is dependent on having good coaching from the youngest ages on up. Years ago, the traditional hockey playing states, the 3 M's, had the coaching because dad and grandpa knew the game and knew what to teach their kids. In non-traditional hockey markets there were dad coaches who didn't know how to skate and had no clue how to run a practice. I grew up in Iowa and was fortunate that we had a semi-pro USHL team and the kids I grew up playing with were the kids of those players who were originally from Toronto. They knew hockey and knew how to teach us to play. Other areas didn't have that. Today you can go online and pull up a thousand different lesson plans or videos. There is so much information available. That sharing of information has elevated the level of play in no-traditional markets.

Ok, let me preface this by saying I need to remember I am on a NoDak message board. I have taken teams all over the place for tournaments. In NoDak and northern Minnesota, body contact at the Pee Wee level is dang near full on checking. When you get to the Cities things get called a little bit tighter but still pretty failry allow contact. You get into Southern Minnesota and even less contact is allowed. Go over to Wisconsin or down into South Dakota, Iowa or Missouri and if you even breathe or look cross ways at the opponent and they fall down you will get called for a "checking" penalty. Body contact rules are not applies evenly across different areas of the country, is the point.

Allowing body contact, yes. It used to be that way. Doesn't need to be full on, open ice checking.

I'm almost positive this was discussed last go around a couple of years ago and dropped. There are things that come up on the agenda every year and don't go anywhere. That said, this would be a disaster. If anything, checking needs to be moved back to Pee Wees and some would even say Squirts. Checking is a skill just like skating, stickhandling, and shooting and is one that should be taught from a young age, how to deliver a proper check and how to protect yourself and receive a proper check. I guess Johnny Toe Drag will soon be making an appearance at the Bantam level now.

I am kind of surprised to hear this. I've been taking teams up to North Dakota for years to play youth hockey tournaments and I've always felt the environment was pretty laid back. Parents and coaches seemed to "get it" and understood the hockey culture. If you want crazy go to a rink in Kansas City, St. Louis, or Chicago. St. Louis is pretty much the epi-center of absolute craziness I have ever witnessed. As for this coach who got put on leave, it's not like the old days where coaches could be very colorful with their language, times have changed. What hasn't changed is the locker room code, what is said in the room stays in the room. The kid who took the video (cell phones aren't even allowed in the locker room) should be suspended for his actions as well. Nothing is freaking sacred anymore.

It still is vivid in my mind that prior to this run by NDSU they were 3-8, couldn't fill up the FFD, and students had abandoned the program. Success can be fleeting. The question is not how support is right now in the good times and can FBS aspirations be supported under those conditions, it is can FBS aspirations still be supported in the bad times, the 3-8 times. Even for a football program that has been as successful as NDSU my answer would have to be "no". Once they step into the big pond they are no longer special. They have no special recruiting advantages in FBS, in fact, they would be in the worst recruiting position of almost any FBS school. Nothing big to play for other than a crappy bowl in Detroit in the days before Christmas. Start losing a few games, which they would, and support starts to weaken. I don't even know why we have these FBS discussions. I don't see how any of these schools could step into the FBS world on their own. Now, if they wanted to band together to move up en mass, I could see it being feasible. But still have to remember the most we would all be playing for is a crappy, pre-Christmas bowl game. Is that enough to make it worth it?

I am confused. Is the Bison fan saying that UND's athletic budget is $27 million, but take out hockey and it's $15 million? So hockey costs $12 million? What about hockey revenues? Hockey is cash flow positive, pays for itself and helps fund other sports. How is that a problem exactly?

The entire athletic department? You sure about that? NDSU is still very good in track and field and softball but outside of that, not so much. I would say their athletic department is a bit out of balance.

I would agree we are seeding our own destruction except you predicated Augie landing in the Valley on a MVC public/private split. If that split where to happen where would those MVC publics go? Probably to turn the MVFC into an all-sports conference. In that case USD and SDSU are now in a league with UNI, ISUb, ISUr, MSU, etc. I would take the public side of the MVC over the private side any day of the week. Augie can have the private side, the public side of the MVC would make the more prestigious conference.

My buddy's daughter just got a full ride to Alabama, and she's from South Dakota. Something to do with some cheer/pageant type deal. They give out 50 full rides, one for each state, for this scholarship program. I have a feeling Alabama is handing out lots of scholarships to entice out of state students to attend school there.

Seriously, it smells there. You can smell the death & blood, that packing plant smell. No way kids from California would see Greeley as attractive. Also, you do realize most college students are so broke they couldn't afford the gas to drive an hour to go skiing much less afford lift passes.

Have to agree here. I remember Greeley as being a blue collar, meat packing town. I don't see Cali students flocking to Greeley. It's not Boulder and it's not a PAC school.

It very well could have been, I can't really argue against you here. It makes me kind of nervous, the grip and influence that Sanford has into 3 of the Dakota schools and the Summit League conference offices. They've got their tentacles stuck in pretty deep.

We don't. At least many of us don't. This is all very short-sighted and not a good thing for any of us.

I think this is a fair statement: The Dakota schools dragged their feet and moved to D1 later than they should have. Whether it was economics, this mindset we didn't have the population base and resources to compete, or maybe we just all got way too comfortable in the NCC, for whatever reason we all stayed in D2 too long, or maybe never should have been there and should have gone D1AA when UNI made that move. Now that the schools have made that move all of us are experiencing success in D1 in one form or another, the obvious being NDSU's string of FCS Championships, SDSU with multiple Big Dance berths, USD making the playoffs in multiple sports and winning a WNIT title, UND has made the playoffs and had some success as well. Point is we have all figured out we belong here and can compete at this level, and possibly even at a higher level. So there will always be an eye to the future, a plan to position ourselves to be ready for that next opportunity when it arises. I don't think any of our schools have a plan that says "we are definitely doing this", but I do think they all have plans about being ready for a "G5" move if/when that opportunity comes. It wouldn't shock me one bit to find out the 4 schools are all talking and working together so that the next move happens together this time. It wouldn't shock me if we were talking to schools as a block both out West and in the East about future conference opportunities. We talk about the Great Northern Conference in the West, which would be a great conference, but there may also be an awakening amongst the MVC public schools that maybe an all-sport MVFC conference wouldn't be a bad idea. The Dakota schools have now proven we can more than just hang with the MVC in multiple sports. It may be a good idea for them to break away from the MVC privates and form a conference with the Dakotas, a conference full of schools with similar profiles and similar goals.

I think the Big Ten would take OU if they presented a plan to show the investments they are making to elevate themselves academically and from a research standpoint. They just got a major donation for a research center from a billionaire donor. OU has some big oil alumni that have major bucks. KU fits academically, Midwest school, and a storied basketball program. Doing a renovation of their football stadium and just hired Les Miles. They are preparing for the shift.

Here is an interesting article about a current lawsuit over FCOA and scholarship limitations. The super conferences are coming. This lawsuit and the convergence of the TV deals will be the impetus. LINK I see it as OU being the linchpin. UT is fat and happy with what they have in the Big 12. They are the king in that kingdom. There is a very lengthy and active thread over on the OU forum DirtBurglers. People will go back and forth as to what OU will do. There's a pro-BIG crowd, pro-SEC crowd, and pro-Big 12 crowd. My take is that OU wants to become a massive research university and they see Big Ten affiliation as being the best way to achieve that goal. The academics and big money people who are giving huge donations for research buildings, etc. are pro-BIG. Playing games is nice but money talks, plus the Big Ten is rich in athletics money. If OU and KU move together to the BIG that will pacify the fanbase some. Playing long time rivals Kansas and Nebraska along with keeping the annual game with UT intact and OU gets the best of all worlds.

With UCF getting shut out of any CFP talk there is a drum beat for the G5 to split off and have their own championship. The Big 12 has a TV contract and GOR extension coming up here in the next several years. I think what could happen is there will be another round of conference realignment with the Big 12 ceasing to exist. There would end up being 4 P5 conferences, a nice little package that leads right into the conference championships becoming de facto quarterfinal games for the CFP playoff. The G5 and top half of the FCS could split off to form the "next level" of D1 football and play off for a NC. That's the level of football our schools are all positioning ourselves to be in. There will also be a third level of D1 football for the Ivy's, HBCU's, Non-scholarship, and weaker FCS schools. Will this all happen? I don't know, but it's lining up that it could happen that way. This entire scenario depends on one school, Oklahoma. If OU is happy and content in the Big 12 then we will continue on as normal. If OU sees themselves as being disadvantaged and getting left behind both from a financial and competitive standpoint they may seek other options in either the Big Ten or SEC which would set off a massive realignment as there is no way Texas stays in a Big 12 without Oklahoma. I think that is the domino that could fall that triggers everything all the way down to the Pioneer League. I believe this is where SV is getting his 2022 timeline as I believe the Big 12 GOR expires right around that timeframe. Coincidentally, or maybe not, the Big Ten didn't go long term on their last TV deal and they are set to negotiate another one right in that time period as well. Theory being the BIG will snag Oklahoma and another school (KU?) and negotiate a massive deal since they now have OU football and KU basketball in-house. At that point I think Texas and a few other schools join the PAC which would help the PAC financially. Everybody ends up winning in this scenario unless you are a school left on the outside looking in (Baylor? Iowa State? TCU?).

Being in a conference with Augustana would be a hard pass for Idaho, Montana, Montana St, and EWU. Don't need Augustana for your plans when we already have Oral Roberts in the mix to fill that basketball only school spot. UND/NDSU, USD/SDSU, Omaha/ORU, UM/MSU, UI/EWU, WSU/DU.

None of us are going to give up the MVFC and games against UNI, Illinois State, etc. The MVFC is the premier FCS conference in the country. No way we leave it willingly.

I'm saying that there is a good portion of the financial backing at Augie that comes from football people. A move to D1 that eliminates football or downgrades it to non-scholarship may not be palatable to them. They would then lose donors, donors they need to make this move. So Augie may need to find a home for an FCS scholarship football program, and I don't see the MVFC letting them in. So yeah, I think the Summit membership won't be a problem. But what to do with football will be a problem.