UND92,96

I would respectfully disagree that geography isn't a predictor of success or failure of basketball, whether it be NDSU, or UND if we were to move up. How likely is it to be able to recruit legitimate dI caliber basketball players to North Dakota? I'm not talking about good dII players, but guys who are actually being recruited heavily by schools from the Missouri Valley or other decent mid-major conferences. Let's face it, the odds aren't good. And without getting those players, the actual caliber of play you'll likely see from NDSU is not going to be any better than what it's been. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for NDSU to sign its first recruit who actually turned down a scholarship offer from a tournament-eligible dI program in favor of NDSU. I'm guessing it may be many years. Geography also works against obtaining a conference affiliation. I agree that making it to the tournament would be a huge accomplishment and more prestigious than winning a dII title, but the theoretical ability to make it and actually making it considering the geographical disadvantages we have in North Dakota are two very different things.

You are correct that it's not unusual for there to be different winners for Ms./Mr. Basketball and the Gatorade player of the year. What surprises me is that one group (Gatorade/the coaches?) picked Beck as the top female high school basketball player in the state, and another group (the media) believed that there were at least four girls who were better than Beck. I'm not saying that Beck necessarily SHOULD have won Ms. Basketball--although I believe she was as deserving as anyone--but for her not to have been one of the four finalists was kind of a joke.

Karla Beck has officially signed with UND according to www.fightingsioux.com. What is interesting is that she was named the North Dakota Gatorade player of the year, and yet was not one of the Ms. Basketball finalists! I'm not sure how that's possible. In any event, she is a heck of an athlete and could very well turn out to be a very good player even though she was apparently not all that heavily recruited by too many other dII programs.

I noticed that one of Mike Gutter's high school teammates had a very nice freshman year at Williston State. Point guard Jahi Craig averaged 16 pts. and 7 assists per game while earning all-conference first team honors. He's on the small side at 5'9", but is supposed to be very quick and was a 4-year starter at Milwaukee King, which has been the top high school program in Wisconsin recently. He might be a name to watch for after next season if he continues to progress.

A new coach is probably a step in the right direction, but I'm sure you'd agree that UNO has a long, long way to go before they're competitive with UND in women's basketball. Roebuck's .850 winning percentage since the '87-'88 season is one of the more impressive coaching accomplishments I'm aware of, and UND is not showing any signs of dropping off anytime soon.

Oien pleads guilty to two misdemeanors according to this link, but it doesn't look like he's losing his job unless he screws up again. It's interesting to contrast Oien's situation with what happened to Bob Entzion and Larry Eustachy.

Good question. My best guess would be during the 1993 season in which Roebuck led the Sioux to the dII world series.

I don't mean to seem as though I'm arguing with you, or that I'm putting words in your mouth. I am just skeptical that signing 7 high school players and no transfers is the way to win in division II basketball in this day and age when you're coming off a 6-21 season and you have practically nothing coming back in terms of proven talent. Even IF this class turns out to be good, they will likely struggle badly for at least two more years. I guess I'm also a little skeptical that some of their guard recruits are as good as their 20-something per game scoring averages would suggest. It would be interesting to know what other schools offered them. Typically, I don't think Augie wins many recruiting battles in basketball over more prominent basketball schools, although they do in football sometimes since they are far more likely to offer full rides than most other NCC schools (which of course really hinders their depth). The real question is this: if UND were coming off a season like Augie had and was in need of a complete rebuilding job, would you be satisfied with this class? I would not be, but that's just my personal opinion.

You are correct with regard to '88-'89. I missed that one. I'm not saying that Augie will finish last each and every year, but obviously somebody has to finish last in every league, and among UND, SCSU, MSU-Mankato, UNO, UMD, USD and Augie, who would be the odds-on favorite to be last in any given year, at least judging by what has transpired over most of the past dozen-or-so years? I know I would vote for Augie. If Augie rises to the top of the NCC, which team(s) will take their place as the doormats of the league? It's kind of like with MSU-Mankato and UNO in women's basketball. I know they aspire to get out of the basement, but the hard part is that that would mean that one or more of the stronger programs would have to falter. Who? Again, somebody has to be last. I guess some of you guys have a higher opinion of Billiter's coaching ability than I do. I don't mean to say he's a bad coach--I just don't think he's going to turn Augie into something any better than an average dII program. As of now, they're well below average.

We'll see. Augie has been poor for so long in men's basketball that it's almost a foregone conclusion that they will finish near the bottom of the NCC every year. They haven't had a sniff of a conference title since 1977-78. They're likely always going to be, at best, the fourth-best college basketball program in the state of South Dakota (after SDSU, USD and Northern St.), which makes it awfully difficult to be any good since SD is obviously not a very big state. Billiter has shown an ability to win with all or nearly all-transfer teams, but that's apparently not an option with the administration at Augie judging by his first couple of recruiting classes. If we at UND have had trouble winning with mostly high school recruits even with our facilities, fan support and tradition, I don't see how Billiter can do it at Augie, even if their geography is a little more advantageous, unless he's getting the pick of the litter of regional dII players. Again, considering Augie's reputation as an also-ran among South Dakota college basketball programs, not to mention the rest of the NCC and NSIC, it would appear unlikely that they'll ever be in a position to be getting the best dII talent from the SD/MN/WI/IA region. Is Billiter a good enough coach to win with inferior talent? I'd say no, but time will tell since I have a feeling that's what he'll have to do.

Thus far, it doesn't look like any of the seven schools who will be playing NCC basketball next year has had an especially successful late signing period. USD probably has the top high school recruit among the late signees with the Becker kid out of Osseo (MN), plus a couple of transfers including one of the Greens from NDSU, but without Tommie King they don't look very strong on paper, especially since the Sioux were able to beat them twice last year even with King.

Here's a list from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ranking the top Wisconsin senior basketball prospects. Harkins went from being ranked 10th as a junior to 11th as a senior. Considering his stats were up this year, I'm not sure why he "only" got 4th team A.P. all-state after earning the same honor as a junior, considering how few returning all-state players there were this year. He appears to be the top-ranked Wisconsin player not going division I (or to a juco in order to become eligible for division I). Mr. Basketball winner Michael Nelson was ranked 7th.

I would think that it's something of a surprise that MSU-Mankato would hire as its head coach an assistant coach from a program which generally is no better than middle-of-the-pack in the NCC. It will be interesting to see if she can keep more of the top southern Minnesota girls closer to home. UND and NDSU have done quite well recruiting down there over the years.

Based upon the fact that Boese, Mahlum, Jahner, Hausauer, Maffin, Glynn and Glick return, that there were three red-shirts this year (Draayer, Sannes and Werdell), one medical red-shirt (Elias) and that there were two early signees (Langen and Guinn), plus presumably Beck, I am doubting that anyone else will be signing next week, but that's only a guess on my part. With at least two very talented local players who will be seniors next year (Kimbrough--probably a longshot, I know--and Baageson), and only Hausauer being a senior next year, I hope that at least a couple of scholarships are available for next year's class.

Any word as to which of the young quarterbacks has been looking the best? And which offensive linemen look like they will join Smith, Kuper and presumably Hendrickson in the starting lineup?

With Koenig apparently staying at Green Bay, I would think it's imperative to sign another low post scorer soon. Ryp is obviously gone after next season, which will leave a huge hole in the middle. Gutter would be the only inside player remaining, and he's completely unproven. Have any big guys visited recently? Is the plan to either hope for an incoming transfer or sign some juco big guys next spring when more scholarship money is available?

I am basically in agreement with everything UND Fan said, but a couple of things keep perplexing me: 1. The UND men's basketball program has a tradition which is better than virtually everybody in the NCC, save maybe SDSU, and even in comparison with them UND has a significant advantage in the all-time series. So have things really changed that much in the past 10 years with regard to recruiting challenges so that UND went from being perennially one of the top programs in the region to one that is stuck in the middle? You need to change with the times, and I'm not sure we've done that very successfully. 2. When you look at the long list of sports in which UND has won conference titles in recent years, there doesn't seem to be any particularly compelling reason why the men's basketball program has not. Each sport is unique, of course, but I don't believe the situation with the men's basketball program is so different from all other sports that we should just accept mediocrity, either. The resources are in place, the tradition is there, the fan support is among the best in dII, local media coverage is extensive, and while REA has its flaws as a basketball facility, it has to be absolutely jaw-dropping to a kid in for a visit. I have to think that those things should more than offset the fact that we are geographically remote, or that it's a little colder here than South Dakota or southern Minnesota. Those obstacles have always been here, and they've been overcome many times. I have blasted Rich in the past, particularly after losses to Minot St., UMC and Mary. I know many others have felt the same way. With that said, I would like to see him succeed again, but I really think this upcoming year is a make-or-break situation.

I would think Rich needs to have a pretty good season next year considering what he has returning and the fact that UND hasn't won a share of the NCC title in about 10 years. I have no idea how much, if any jeopardy his job would be in if the Sioux have a mediocre season next year. Roger Thomas has fortunately not had any difficult decisions thus far, at least that I'm aware of, with regard to the firing of coaches. In other words, whether RT has the stomach to fire somebody for simply not winning enough is an unknown.

I read somewhere that he's going to transfer to a juco, and then hopefully catch on with another dI program the following year.

Looks like the woman made up the whole thing, according to this article. What a nut.

Here's a Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article regarding the recruitment of Wisconsin high school players this year and how it's a bit of a down year. Speaking of Wisconsin Mr. Basketball winners, does anyone remember Greg Timmerman who played for UND back in the mid-90's after transferring from Wisconsin? Wasn't he a former Mr. BB?

I give NDSU credit for a nice group of high school recruits. I would have liked to have seen a couple of them sign with UND. However, with that being said, I believe that for the most part, these were all players who didn't receive offers from any NCAA tournament-eligible dI programs. In other words, NDSU was recruiting against dII's for these guys as opposed to Missouri Valley or other mid-major conference schools. For example, if the Nelson kid from Wisco were a true dI caliber player, wouldn't you think he'd have been offered by UW-Green Bay or UW-Milwaukee? I would think so. Also, it looks like juco recruiting may be a thing of the past. And I don't believe it's by choice. With the far more stringent eligibility requirements for juco players at the dI level, the odds of a fledgling dI program signing a juco player capable of making much of an impact are next to none. The vast majority of the 300-something dI programs recruit the juco ranks, and are eligible to play in the NCAA tournament which is what 99% of kids are looking for if they have a choice. Once they get the players they want, and subtracting out all of the players who aren't eligible to play dI, the pickings are likely pretty slim.

While it's not a big deal in the scheme of things, what frustrates me is when players' weights aren't updated from their freshman year--even when that freshman year may have been 3 or 4 years ago. Some examples of erroneous information on last year's roster: Hermes listed at 200 Gagner listed at 185 Anderson listed at 210 Maier listed at 210 Halstenson listed at 210 Nordick listed at 210 Kuper listed at 280 Duchscher listed at 237 Most of those weights are off from 15 to 30 pounds. I just think that a roster should contain relatively accurate information.

Still no official word on Winkelman as far as I could find. Might he be having second thoughts? Holding out for a last-minute dI offer? If he has decided on St. Cloud St., you wouldn't think there would be much reason to delay his announcement any longer. On another board, somebody asked about SCSU recruiting, and the guy who normally seems to know what's going on didn't mention Winkelman's name--not that that necessarily means anything.