Gothmog

Or you could remain publicly silent on the subject and work behind the scenes to improve the relationship between the two schools. Your choice...

Doesn't look like he's lying to me. And if he is, what difference does it make to you?

What you haven't explained is why you care. What possible difference does it make to you, or your fellow Sioux fans, if NDSU doesn't schedule UND for reason A or reason B? NDSU doesn't owe you an explanation of its scheduling policy.

Exactly, that was my point. EDIT: well, not quite I guess. The "too good" for division II thing is kind of silly. Both schools really were too good for division II. NDSU actually did themselves and UND a favor by pointing that out. Also, it's worth pointing out that UND's transition will likely be a bit easier than it otherwise might have been because NDSU (and others) assumed risks and did the necesary work to, among other things, create and establish the Great West Football Conference.

Now that's a typical response.

Before you make such allegations, you might want to pause to reflect on who originally sought to harm whom. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Your estimates of the potential audience for this game are extremely optimistic. I'm a Vikings season ticket holder, so I've been to over a hundred football games at the Metrodome. I was at the Bison-Gopher game last October, and I'd estimate that there were no more that 15k - 20k Bison fans there, perhaps fewer. It's very natural to overestimate the visiting teams attendance - human beings tend to remember the unexpected, unusual things they see, and forget more mundane things. Seeing a green and gold clad Bison fan at the Dome is memorable. Encountering ing 10 Gopher fans in maroon and gold just doesn't have the same impact. The attendance of Packer fans, Hawkeye fans, and Badger fans at Viking and Gopher games has likewise been over-estimated over the years. I doubt that a Bison-Sioux game in the Metrodome would attract 40k. In any case, staging the game in the Twin Cities is inappropriate, and, in my opinion, it just ain't gonna happen.

C'mon! The truth is that UND pulled the plug on the NCC. It was a perfectly viable DII conference until the day UND announced its move. Only pride and it's rivalry with NDSU forced UND to move. The Sioux could have stayed in the NCC indefinitely.

Such "eye test" comparisons are useless unless you have the teams on the same field. However, from what I've seen of the Bison they are much better than they were as a DII team. I haven't seen enough of this year's UND team to make any real comparisons. But I will say that the UND teams NDSU played a few years ago would not have done well against this year's Bison.

The problem with your argument is that UND doesn't actually end up with a significantly more qualified student body than does NDSU. We don't know the qualifications of those that are turned down at either school. Perhaps UND simply has a higher percentage of unqualified applicants. The fact that the downturn in UND's enrollment coincides with more rigorous admission standards seems to imply that.

Actually, this argument works better the other way around. Marginal students have become accustomed to applying to UND, because of their past lower admission standards.

Actually, my argument has never been that UND has any legal duty to change its nickname. I do, however, believe that, as a public institution, UND has a moral duty to respect the wishes of the Sioux tribe. I agree that people should learn to be slow to take offense and quick to forgive when offended. However, I also believe that we all ought to be respectful of others. That we should not, to the extent possible, use words others consider offensive, even if we do not, ourselves, share their opinion. Do you really disagree with that?

But we're not talking about bad drivers or sports rivals, are we? We're talking about an historically oppressed group, one of the most oppressed in world history.

How you're perceived is usually a matter of who you're standing next to.

Fine, you see this as your right to be offend whomever you choose. While I see it as your duty not to offend others unnecessarily. In the end, I'd have to support your constitutionally guaranteed right to behave as badly as you wish. Personally, I'd much rather live in a world where everyone is treated with respect and dignity, and the wishes of an oppressed minority are respected. But that's just me, you may not agree.

Think about what you're saying! Do you really want to live in a world where there are no right or wrong answers to moral questions, and public offiicals have the right to accept or reject any argument they find unconvincing?

No, the moral case against UND is not in a court of law. Those are good points. But they are all related to the question "does this group really object", not "does UND have the right to use its nickname and logo if the members of that group object."

You're trotting out a legal concept to defend against a moral argument.

That is simply absurd.

Well, there is at least some legitmacy in that argument. The opinions of Native Americans in general, and the Sioux tribe in particular, are really at the heart of the matter. If they don't really object, the NCAA's case loses any legitmacy it may have had. However, if you're going to make that argument you better be ready to accept the consequences. Don't forget that nearly every tribal government has asked UND to change the name.

No, not really. The issue is whether UND has the right to use the name and likeness of any group over the objections of the members of that group. It doesn't really matter whether UND uses them in an obviously offensive way or not. What matters is whether the members of that group object to their use. If they do, UND has an absolute moral obligation to stop using them immediately. If you want to argue about whether this particular group really objects, have at it. UND's beef with the NCAA is just a sideshow.

OK, you never had perspective on the issue.

"Perspective", as I used the word, is the ability, or willingness, to consider all relevant facts and viewpoints when forming an opinion. Native American rights advocates would very likely consider the NCAA's policy a "courageous attempt to do the right thing." Your dismissal of that viewpoint betrays a loss of perspective on the issue.

Gee, that sure sounds like someone who has lost all perspective.

Or maybe it's a courageous attempt to do the right thing. Ever consider the possiblility that you, and others on this board, have lost your sense of perspective on the issue?