skateshattrick

BisonMav, I agree with your perception. I apologize for jumping on you early, but I misinterpreted your post as another anti-hockey post with the message that Fargo is not a hockey town, it is a football town. I will say that IF Fargo had the facilities, it would not only survive, but do well. The Redhawk baseball team built its own stadium and excelled. They would not have excelled if they had played at the Fargo legion complex. Grand Forks made that mistake, and minor league baseball failed. If Grand Forks had hooked up with the old Northern League (it used to be years ago and Willie Stargell played there) and built a stadium, it would have probably worked. Fargo, unfortunately, does not have the facilities and has difficulty getting public or private money for any sports facilities right now, not just hockey.

Then what was your point? Fargo has the fans, and the implication of your message was that Fargo (where I live) is not a hockey town. If that is your point, you are wrong. I grew up in Grand Forks, and Fargo is a very good hockey town. Moorhead is even better, on par with Grand Forks. There are many more people in Fargo-Moorhead. If this town had the facilities and a winner, people would come out to support any hockey team. NDSU was never smart enough to figure that out, and it is now too late because they did not move like St. Cloud, Omaha and Mankato. Nobody thought that Omaha was a hockey town either, but the Lancers sold out and now Nebraska-Omaha is one of the leading schools in hockey attendance. Omaha also was in the black more than $1million after its 1st year, allowing it to support its other fledgling programs.

Sicatoka is exactly right, but BisonMav has no clue what he/she is talking about. Fargo-Moorhead has many, many more kids playing hockey than in Grand Forks. The Flyers and Raiders have 15 teams playing Squirt-Bantam, West Fargo has at least 3 teams at each level, Moorhead has at least 3 teams at each level, and the Patriots have at least 3 teams at each level. Additionally, approximately 1/3 of the Sioux hockey season ticket holders are from outside of Grand Forks, the vast majority from Fargo-Moorhead. Fargo-Moorhead is a great hockey town in terms of numbers and interest, it just gets no public support. As a result, Fargo has the worst rinks in the State. Moorhead, however, has 4 sheets of ice and is one of the best hockey towns in all of Minnesota. Junior hockey has not done well in Fargo because the facilities are poor, because Sioux hockey and youth hockey occupy many fans/parents weekends, and there are many things competing for the Saturday night dollar, including Concordia, NDSU, MSU and high school sporting events. Please go back to your Bison football board where you can say meaningless things and no one will recognize it. Grand Forks would have the same problem, and junior hockey would not fare well in Grand Forks.

Siouxrock--there used to be a regular caller on Sid Hartman called Mike the Vikings Fan. I used to cringe every time that he called, because he was from North Dakota and lowered everyone's IQ just by talking. You are not him, are you? Paint chips cannot be the only reason for some of these posts. Did your dad drop you as well?

I like the way you think Flatspin! I have often wondered why Denver, Maine, Michigan and a few others recruit not only from around their area, but go as far as the BCHL, the USHL and Europe.

I'll take speed and quickness over size any day. Ask Denver, Duluth, Tech and Wisconsin who had those big teams in the 90's. The Sioux dominated with smaller, quicker players like David Hoogsteen, Jason Blake, the Panzers, Murphy, etc. CC and Minnesota have also generally taken skill and speed over size, (Ryan Kraft, Larry Olimb, Mike Crowley) , which is why those 3 teams have been the best teams since the early 90's. The current Gophers team has a little of both, but they still emphasize speed and passing over size. The college game is different than the pro game, which is why it is more entertaining.

Who cares? Please BisonMav and others, take your football discussion to the football forum so I don't have to read it in a hockey forum. I'm sincere when I say I really, really don't care about NDSU football. The Gopher hockey team may be disliked, but we are interested in their team in a hockey forum.

Dagies, your enthusiasm and positive spin is commendable, but I have to respectfully disagree. The defensemen from the sophomore class are good, but of the 7 forwards, only 1 has made an impact. McMahon is a valuable defensive player, and he could turn out to be a Teeder Wynne that blossoms into a scorer later. If not, he's still a valuable defensive forward like Adam Calder. Massen has talent, but he disappeared the 2nd half. He is not fast, and does not play strong enough for his size. I agree, however, that he is a good player. I'm just not sure if he will get better, or end up more like Chris Gotziamann who did not really improve. Fournier and Faul are busts because they are gone. Frankly, Connelly and Canady are as well. Canady continually takes stupid penalties, and contributes nothing offensively. I don't think he's even a good defensive forward. Our 4th line this year was brutal. Connelly works hard, but 0 goals won't cut it. He reminds me of Tom Phillion, who worked extremely hard, but contributed very little. This may be harsh, but it is objective. It also echoes what I have been told by a few former players who think that a few players should go, including a local boy who will be a senior. I guess we can agree to disagree.

I don't think anyone is "against" you, but everyone is tired of what appear to be deliberate misspellings to make us think you are a kid. I don't think you are a kid, or you would not understand these posts. I have 3 kids, and my 9 year old does not spell that poorly. If he did, he would flunk the 3rd grade. If you want to be taken seriously, then act your age. Spell normally and make intelligent comments, not posts like "the Gophers suck." I think everyone is just tired of what appears to be an act. If its not an act, please use a dictionary.

DLW4GOPHERS, that is probably true that teams are now gunning for the Gophers, partly because they are the defending national champion and partly because of the arrogance of the Gopher fans. They are the team that everyone loves to hate. This is similar to the attitude of the eastern teams to Boston College, even though BU and Maine have had more success. BC fans also liked to shout "USA" and tried to diminish BU and Maine's achievements by offering excuses such as that the academic standards at those schools were not as high, they relied on 21 year old Canadians and Europeans, etc. Its a little short-sighted to think that everyone hates the Gophers just because of its success. Believe me, that is a factor, but not the only one. A few short years ago, however, when the Sioux were dominating the WCHA, it was probably the Sioux that were the team everyone liked to beat. The same holds true of Wisconsin during its run in the 1980's. If Wisconsin got back on top, they would be the team that everyone loved to beat. The fact of the matter is, the Gophers are one of the most respected programs in the country, but not any more so than UND. If you were to do an objective poll of what schools have the most tradition and the best programs, the short list would include UND, Minnesota, Michigan, BU, BC, Maine, Michigan State, Wisconsin and maybe a few others. These are the teams that have had the most success and turned out the most pros.

Correction--"mid major" basketball. D1AA football. Nobody still cares.

WYOBISONMAN--Then what are you doing on this board other than stirring up trouble? I consider Division 1AA football and BB akin to Arena football. Not quite good enough for the big time, and nobody cares about it. NDSU aka "the high school with ashtrays" would not know about D1 sports because it has never competed at the level. The Sioux really thought that NDSU would move to D3 since it could not compete at D2 even when it was recruiting criminals. Many UND football players considered playing at NDSU but were ineligible because they had no criminal records and they had too high of grades. I'm sure that your degree from NDSU served you well---what pizza chain do you deliver pizzas for? Next time, please do not take the whole bottle of stupid pills before posting.

I don't think that there is any question that UND will be better next year because they don't lose much to graduation IF no one leaves early, or only David Hale goes. Spiewak and Noterman will be missed, but the impact should be less than Bayda and Skarperud, and Parise and Bochenski will be a year older and much better. Murray is apparently very fast and plays like Jeff Panzer. He can't be too shabby if he is the 3rd leader scorer in the BCHL, made 1st team all BCHL, and received MVP votes. He did this as a 17 year old, so his upside is huge and the excitement should be similar to Parise's arrival. The difference is that teams can no longer key on just Parise anymore. I have also heard from a Minneapolis parent who has a kid playing for BU that Stafford and Smaby from Shattuck are very good and will make an impact. The only question is whether they will be as good as the Gophers, which I think that they can be. The rest of the league should be chasing these 2, but as everyone correctly pointed out, you never know. That is what makes the WCHA so much fun.

That is a very good and legitimate question. I think that the Gophers will be very good next year, but there are so many intangibles. I truly expect Vanek to leave if he is drafted in the top 10, which it appears that he will. The Gophers have adequate, but not great goaltending. The Sioux should be very good, but also have many question marks, including goaltending. Mankato will be good, but I don't expect them to contend for a WCHA title or a national championship. Duluth is on the rise, but I don't see a lot of stars other than Caig and Stapleton. Denver was surprisingly average this year, but they have a lot of good returning talent. CC will lose a lot, but they have good freshmen (Mark Stuart) and some good recruits coming in. One of the reasons it is difficult to predict is because teams rise and fall that are not expected to do well. Last year (2001-02), Denver was picked 5th. Yet, most objective fans will tell you that they were the best team in the WCHA last year and perhaps the country. They won the WCHA, the WCHA playoffs, and the season series with Minnesota. They got sent to Michigan and lost on Michigan's home ice. The same thing happened to Minnesota in 97, UND in 98 (maybe UND's best team during the run from 97-2001), and CC this year. CC was not picked to win it this year after finishing 5th in 2001-02. Yet, for most of the year, they were the best team. Mankato was picked 8th, and tied the Gophers for second. They also played them tough. It took the Gophers OT to win the season series. The Gophers look very good on paper, but many things can happen. Believe it or not, the Sioux should be very good. Before this year, Blais said his goal was to finish in the top 5 of the league to get home ice, make it to the WHCA Final 5, and hopefully, make it to the NCAA tournament. He did not expect to compete for a championship this year, but said many times "watch out in 2003-04". He fully expects to compete for a national championship. The main reason is that Parise would be a year older, and reunited with Brady Murray, who had almost as many points as a junior at Shattuck. I cannot imagine a scarier line in college hockey than Parise-Murray-Bochenski if Parise and Bochenski both return as expected. I would give the Gophers depth an edge, but it will depend upon the impact of incoming freshman. However, the Sioux may have the best top line. [remember that the Sioux almost won in 2001 with 1 great line] I would also give the Gophers defense the edge if Hale does not return, but not by much. Martin, Ballard and Harrington are very good, but Jones, Schneider, Greene and Fuher are not bad either. I expect that Smaby will also be very good, and from what I hear, can skate and carry the puck. The bottom line: The Gophers should be the favorites, but not by much. I really think the Sioux will be very good, much better than this year and should challenge UM the whole year. UMD, CC, Denver and Mankato should also be good, but UMD is still another year away from competing for a WCHA crown and NCAA Frozen 4. Wisconsin HAS to be better because they have too much tradition. Outside of the league, Michigan is young and talented, but typically loses a lot of young players early. BC is very young and talented, as are Maine and BU. That is my objective take on next year. Remember that everyone thought the Sioux would win in 1998 after winning it in 1997 and with all of their returning talent. They rolled through the WCHA and were No. 1 for most of the year. However, they went to Michigan and went home disappointed. Anything can happen, and usually does.

Nice picture of your girlfriend WYOBISONMAV. She really is one of the prettier NDSU cheerleaders that I have seen.

The article is really not worthy of a response. Look at the guy. He probably knows as much about hockey as Sid Hartman. He's just stirring the pot because he has nothing to write about after the Bison were the doormats of the NCC in football.

TheFlop---There are 6 Lamoreaux kids. The oldest, Phillipe, is coming in 2004. He is a goalie with Lincoln. Jacque just finished 10th grade at Grand Forks Central. He is rumored to be heading to Lincoln, but his coach was not sure if that was true. PJ is a 9th grader, and was injured most of the year for GF Central. He was actually a 2nd year bantam playing high school, and will be back in High School. Mario was an 8th grader, and would have been a 2nd year bantam, but played for GF Central last year. He will also be back. There are rumors about him going to Shattuck, but his dad says they are not true. The girls are 7th graders (Monique and Jocelyn), and are also rumored to be going to Shattuck, but it is unsubstantiated.

The 2 loudmouthed Gopher fans are amazingly quiet. They either have to ask their moms what some of the big words mean, or they are late for their jobs at Burger King.

ND Gopher, I think YOU need to get your facts straight. Vanek's date of birth is 1/17/84, and Parise's is 7/28/94. Not only is 6 months significant at this age, that also means that Vanek always played 1 level up. For example, when Zach was a 1st year Bantam, Vanek would have been a 2nd year bantam. When Zach was a senior in high school at Shattuck, Vanek was playing juniors. Zach is a true freshman, Vanek is not. Only the USA Hockey Development teams and select teams play a calendar year, but Minnesota PeeWees, Bantams and High School play a school year. Thus, Vanek has an extra year even though he's only 6 months older. I realize that Vanek is European, so the rules may be different, but he's a calendar year older in any country. Please don't spout off unless you have some clue what you are talking about. As for the criticism of not playing both ends, it is a common criticism of Vanek from former players and coaches. I have heard it frequently from former Sioux players and coaches who have coached in the USHL. Anybody who watches the games on the Gopher Sports Channel who does not see things through maroon and gold glasses would see the same thing. Vanek is more like Bochenski, who is also very strong, has excellent hands, and has a better shot than Vanek. However, Bochenski does not skate as well as Parise either, does not always play both ends of the rink, nor does he have as complete of a game. Yet, Bochenski scored more than Vanek on a team without nearly as much depth. By your analysis, that apparently makes Bochenski better than Vanek?

As great of a scorer as Vanek is, I would take Parise any day. He is a much better skater, sees the ice better, and plays both ends of the rink. Vanek has incredible hands and is a scoring threat every time he is on the ice, but his overall game is not as good, particularly his defense. Keep in mind that he is also younger. Parise will be a better pro, but be patient--he is only 18.

JK--Well put. We can agree to disagree. I think you are underrating Murphy's strength. If Schneider can get to his level, he will go down as one of the all-time great UND defenseman. Murphy would be in the NHL now if he were bigger. The Wild have brought him up a few times, but keep sending him down.

JK --You cannot be serious when you say that Schneider is better defensively than Murphy and Williamson! He's not even in their league, particularly Murphy. Murphy played the body better, held the zone better, was much better in transition and yes, was much better defensively. Additionally, Schneider is not close offensively. If he was so good, he would play the point on the power play rather than a forward like Lundbohm or Fylling. I think Schneider has potential, but he constantly takes slap shots that are blocked by defenders rather than stepping around or just getting a wrister on net, and mishandles passes at the point and fails to hold the zone. I know Schneider is a local boy, and we love to hate Ballard, but I saw Ballard score huge goals against Ferris State and CC down the stretch because he is such a good skater and puckhandler and moves to the middle of the ice. I would be interested to see how Schneider did against the top WCHA competition like UM, CC, Mankato, Duluth and St. Cloud, and see how many of his points were against subpar competition like Canisius, AAU, Wisconsin, Brown, Bemidji State, etc. There is no bigger Sioux hockey fan than me, but I am also objective. The Sioux still lack the offensive defensiveman that they need for the transition game and power play.

You are right about Fargo not producing many D1 hockey players, although Danny Irmen is from Fargo and is very good. Additionally, Brandon Askew could have played, but got recruited by the top golf programs in the country, so chose golf over playing 1 or 2 years of USHL hockey. The obvious reason for the lack of D1 talent from Fargo is lack of ice and ice time. Fargo is over 100,000, yet has only 4 ice sheets that are used. The park district supplies only 2 of them, the others are from private clubs. The Moorhead Bantam A's practice every day from 3:45 to 5:15. By contrast, the Fargo Flyers and Raiders Bantam A's get 1 and 3/4 hours per week of ice time, and typically practice at 6:00 am or after 9:00 pm at night. The PeeWees and Squirts from both the Flyers and Raiders get the same ice time. Earlier in the year, the Flyers A teams beat Moorhead at Squirts, PeeWees and Bantams. Later, all 3 of our teams lost to Moorhead, albeit in close games. That is partly due to lack of ice, and partly due to competition (Moorhead goes to the Twin Cities several times per year and plays the best competition). Fargo is adding 2 ice sheets this fall, which will help, but is still not nearly enough. Fargo has the worst facilities and the least amount of ice of any city in North Dakota. That is the main reason why there are so few kids from Fargo who play D1.

There is a whole post on this, "Last game reviews . . ." The bottom line: The Sioux were good, but not nearly as good as it appeared the 1st half. There is no depth at forward, goaltending is mediocre, there is no offensive-minded defensemen, and the Sioux specialty teams are not good. They need to get away from dump and chase hockey and get back to speed, passing and quick transition hockey. On the positive side, they are close. If they can replace a few players who have not produced, get a few more scorers (Murray should be an impact player), get a Ballard-type defenseman, and get a good goaltender (Sedevie?), they can compete for a national championship.

Yes. I was at that game at Joe Louis. A puck bounced off of the boards behind the net and came right out in front for an easy tap-in goal. I'm not sure the Gophers would have won, but it sure killed any chance to win.