star2city

UNI spending $21 million on a 6,100 seat BB stadium (with limited suites) confirms that upping the capacity of the Betty would have been prohibitively expensive (capacity vs cost is not linear as you scale up) when there are other future needs in the athletic department (football training, indoor track, baseball stadium). A 6000 seat Betty would have cost at least $15 mill and caused fundraising and/or financing issues.

I am not a construction expert, but it would probably take considerably more than $7 mill to reproduce the Betty on a new lot. By building the Betty attached to the Ralph, the savings on avoiding capital costs for utilities, telecom, and HVAC systems would have to be considerable, never mind the maintenance support and staff already in tact at the Ralph. Beyond that, 4000 seats is not reasonable capacity for a new BSA. Doubling a capacity to 8000 roughly quadruples the price, to roughly $25 - 30 million.

All this talk about UND moving up is theoretical and premised on the possibility of gaining conference affiliation. Other than the Big Sky, the one conference that former NCC schools had been touting was the Mid-Continent. But surprisingly little has been mentioned about that possiblity recently. Perhaps there already has been correspondence between the Mid-Con and those schools, only they and the media have not chosen to report the information because it is negative. Could this explain why UNC, which was formerly gung ho for the MID-Con, is now pursuing the Big Sky with open arms? Here are two message board postings on this subject: Mid-con has told SDSU, NDSU and UNC it is not interested? Officially contacted, and told "Thanks but No Thanks"?

From the IAC minutes: Consider just the guarantees required for four out-of-conference football games: probably in the neighborhood of $50 K/game. Just four years ago with a ten-team NCC, only one OOC game was required. The upgrade in OOC football competition and smaller NCC is costing in the neighborhood of $150-200 K this season, as fans demanded no more Moorheads, Bemidjis or Crookstons, which could be "bought" at $5K game. Basketball also has some of the same issues with the smaller NCC, and decent OOC games were a must this year with the opening of the Betty. The smaller NCC has also increased the travel budget. Throw in more and higher scholarship costs (16% tuition increase) (probably $250 K) and women's hockey league fees (no idea), the total expenses increase over a year ago are probably approaching a half a million. If attendance at the Betty is high, and the World Juniors pays big dividends to the REA, the purse strings will probably open up more for non-revenue sports.

With all the talk about a facilities arms race on this and other threads, I though it would be interesting to compare facilities between UND and D-I mid-major schools in the five neighboring states that UND would battle for recruits with if we ever went D-I: School - M BB facility - W BB facility - Football UND - Ralph / Betty / Alerus (off-campus) UNI - McLeod Center (construction to begin) / West Gym / UNIdome UWGB - Resch Center (off-campus) / Phoenix Center/NA UW-Milwaukee- U.S. Cellular Arena (off-campus) / Klotsche Center / NA Drake - Knapp Center / Knapp Center / NA Creighton - Qwest Center (off-campus)/ Civic Aud (off-campus)/NA NDSU - BSA / BSA / FargoDome SDSU - Frost / Frost / Coughlin There are some mighty impressive facilities on this list for men's basketball, considering many other mid-major schools play in glorified high school gyms. Schools with off-campus facilities probably have a slight disadvantage depending on the practice facility. If each school could sell 9000 tickets for men's conference games, which facility would a potential recruit be most enthused about? How about the women, if an average of 4000 attendance was expected? For football, if 12,000 average attendance was expected? My winners for “curb appeal” for recruits: Ralph / Betty / FargoDome (if there was a new on-campus football practice center at UND- then UND would win) Perhaps, even against a tradition-rich program like Creighton, there would be hope that UND could be competitive in recruitment. This recruitment season for basketball will be interesting and it may have an impact in UND's future direction (even if D-I level players say "no" but their eyes popped out during the tour.)

A couple of interesting articles from the Grand Junction Sentinel, the first from Sunday on the game results: Second verse same as first for Mavericks and the second from today on the college atmosphere at the game: Mavs don’t have funds to succeed

Cratter: Thanks for the compliment. Since my posts often emphasize the business side of athletics, others may find them uninteresting (or even threatening for certain viewers from schools further south). cheeringsiouxfromsmoggycali: I'm still on the D-II side of the fence, but if three criteria are met: (a) scholarships fully endowed, (b) football practice facilties upgraded, and (c ) conference membership obtained, D-I would get a green light from me (not that it would carry any weight ). As with patient investors who wait for the right moment, #c can be realized without the huge financial (and momentum) penalty of being an independent. D-II has some as yet unrecognized fringe benefits: specifially as host of championships, which will not be available at the D-I level.

Just as a reminder of some history, here's a blurb from NCAA News - 1999. So in 1999, Doug Fullerton had discussions with Terry Wanless, then of UND and now of Big Sky member Sacramento State. So how often do Roger Thomas, Terry Wanless, and by extension, Doug Fullerton talk nowadays? And about what? Surely Fullerton is more than informed of UND's capabilities and he is more than aware of UND's desire not to move without a conference affiliation. As a side note, listening to the UND/Delta State game on Saturday from the Delta State broadcasters perspective was interesting, as they were in awe of the amount of revenue that UND hockey produces and almost in disbelief of UND's Div II status. The point: clearly UND is seen as a 'have' in the world of Div II and even from the perspective of lower levels of Div I. Which brings a final point: if or when UND goes D-I, the journey will not be done with some mule-drawn one-sport cart as other schools attempt, but in a HUMVEE. There will be five fully funded, revenue generating sports (M&W H, M&W BB, FB) that will power the move. If there is a tire that blows out, a spare will be available. Other schools have attempted the move with one-sport driven cart (football or basketball, not both), which practically assures some major difficulties. A new D-I program capable of fully sponsoring scholarships and D-I schedules in D-I facilities for five revenue generating sports simultaneously is unheard of. UND is likely approaching that capability within a few years. [Note: It is not intended to infer that Women's hockey is a net positive revenue producer, but that revenues this year and subsequent years are likely to jump dramatically as the schedule will now include home series with the likes of Minnesota and Wisconsin.]

Siouxfan48 and SiouxTx: Welcome! It's good to see some new names on the board. I agree with what Siouxfan48 wrote. But one upcoming change to keep in mind is that U of Mary in Bismarck will most likely be a Div II school by 2006-7, so there should still be opportunities for North Dakota Div II caliber athletes no matter what direction UND pursues.

Based on the press release from the Ralph, the Betty is almost certainly financed through profits from the main arena. UND received authorization from the state board to finance the Betty with bonds. Even Betty Engelstad's statement at the dedication reflect that profits from the Ralph made the BB/VB arena possible: From: http://www.theralph.com/new2/Press_Releases/Aug242004.htm WDAZ's statements were incorrect.

Another NW Minnesota recruit to Iowa State: Gillian Bjerke of Pelican Rapids The girl's BB talent coming out of NW Minn is rather amazing for its population. Sounds like Kierah was very impressive in the summer camps and am surprised no major Div I has not already signed her. What other Minnesota gals is UND actively recruiting? Anyone know?

Result: Alerus, Beer Mixed Well

The shameless hyperbole and scurrilous rhetoric coming out of the Fargo Forum is not just coming from Zieglers’ column, but also from the business section and editorials. Business section: [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=68076

By the Forum's own criteria: UND 7(and counting) >NDSU 0(forever)

The Delta State radio connection is working (at no cost): http://www.teamline.cc/teampages.php?teamcode=3873

The Dakota Student had this: Bronson continues rapid growth Townhouses will also be built on the west side of the coulee, so the current soccer field looks to be its permanent location. Student housing looks delayed:

dakotaboy: I take another view on that. Kupchella is certainly against pouring money into Div-I if there are no paybacks. Look at SE Missouri St, where he was at earlier. They moved to Div-I underfunded and have been floundering in the relatively weak Ohio Valley Conference ever since. It can be argued that the Div I move, at significant fiscal cost, has bought SE Mo St negative publicity as a ‘loser’ U, with few positives. (Now SW Mo St, that’s another story.) If the athletic department, Engelstad Arena, and alumni can show that D-I athletics will be fiscally responsible, competitive in a conference, and a positive for UND, Kupchella would give it a green light. The NCAA rule changing probation from 13 years to 5 years (with a conference) has had to have had an impact on softening UND’s position. Kupchella gets a lot of flack from alumni and students because of his inability to socialize in large group settings and play to the crowd. But as an administrator, IMO Kupchella knows how to surround himself with competent people and has been a leader to address, arguably, UND’s greatest deficiency: the retention and compensation of its professors. Baker, for all his popularity with the students, and Clifford, even with his tremendous capability to engage and energize people, had blind spots in their leadership traits. With Kupchella, his weaknesses are blatantly obvious and his strengths much less so. At this point in its history, UND needs are more administrative, as the vision and momentum in many areas are much more readily apparent than ten or twenty years ago.

For the jack and bisson faithful, the postings are geared to the horror genre. P. S. I forgot to mention that with Montana State, Montana, Weber State all looking to add hockey and Northern Arizona restarting their program, Denver and UND would be natural selections. Talk about a horror scenario for the Bison and Jacks.

Wow, collectively, that may have been the most complimentary words ever on my postings by an NDSU fan.

There is a write-up on this game in the Jackson Clarion-Ledger: Stern Test Greets Delta State Liked this quote: Prediction: UND 24, Delta State 13 D with four turnovers and Donovan Alexander with big returns.

Can't resist responding: The NDSU/SDSU partnership has always had some fundamental flaws: (1) SDSU’s long-term goal has always been membership in the Missouri Valley Conference, while NDSU wants emphasis on its football program and competition with Montana schools. Those long-term goals do not mesh well. For SDSU, the Mid-Con is viewed as a stepping stone to the MO Valley. For NDSU, the Mid-Con is an anathema to its long-term goals. (2) Because NDSU/SDSU probation ends at the same time, simultaneous conference affililiation for both schools in the same conference is never going to happen before 2008, the year their probation periods end. The MidCon may very well offer one school a bid before 2008, and that would be SDSU. SDSU would accept immediately. So in 2008, the Big Sky is now ready to take in non-probationary NDSU, but there is no “available” travel partner. Who would the Big Sky approach that has world-class facilities and a athletics budget that exceeds most existing Big Sky schools? Mayville St? I’m sure Denver, Big Sky member since 2005, will be pulling for their hockey rival. Since this would be the only opportunity for UND to move to the Big Sky without being blackballed by NDSU, UND would likely accept as it would then be possible that UND could get into a D-I conference without paying the high cost of four years probation and no conference affiliation. Considering that extra D-I cost will be $1.5 million per year and revenue lost with no conference would be $0.5 to 1.0 million, its conceiveable that fate will allow UND to move immediately into a Div I conference without paying the nearly $10 million penalty of being a D-I independent for four years. Ten million would seem about the right amount to build a nice facility for indoor track and football training. Patience pays off! If this scenario ever plays out, I would hope the NCC would still be in a good position with new members or alternatively, that it could merge with the MIAA.

Has anyone seen this on Ralph.com, or has it been posted elsewhere? Community Impact Report - The Ralph In a nutshell, the report says the Ralph’s impact, conservatively, on the Grand Forks economy is equivalent to approximately $60 mill annually. The World Juniors alone are projected to have an impact of $ 29 mill beyond the annual impact . Even if the numbers were to be adjusted adjusted for the incremental differences between the old Ralph and new Ralph, the impact would be at least $40 mill annually. For the UND athletic department, examples of the pre- and post- Ralph impact are: . . . . . . . . Fighting . . . . . Hockey. . . . . . . . . Sioux Club . . Tickets 2000-1. . . $ 893 K . . . . $ 390 K 2002-3. . . $ 1678 K . . . $ 2037 K Ad Sponsorship 2001-2 . . . $ 500 K 2004-5 . . . $1100 K Some have questioned why Ralph didn’t build an adequate $50 mill rink with the rest going to the UND Foundation. But would a $50 mill rink and $50 mill more in the Foundation have had the impact that the Ralph has had? It wouldn’t have had near the impact in luring other investment into the University Village, or in boosting civic confidence.

Tonight, just noticed that UND will be playing an exhibition on Nov 5th against the Howard Pulley AAU team. Not a bad way to get those guys an unofficial campus visit and see the new Betty!