star2city

The NCC tournament is not all that meaningful for the Sioux, except to stay unbeaten. With the EDC and then Class A state tournaments going on at the Alerus as well as the Michigan Tech and first round WCHA playoffs over the next two weeks, there will be a lot of competition for spectators (and parking places).

There is almost no question that the Sioux will host the regional, no matter what happens at the NCC tournament.

My understanding is that everyone arriving before halftime of the women's game counts as part of the women's attendance. The men's game counts every ticket sold.

Tried using old scanning software, but it wasn't as accurate as I had hoped. Had seen a copy of the December 23rd appeal - not nearly as polished as this version. The same thought passed through my mind yesterday ... seems like people taking offense at certain images is a world-wide issue now. Although the whole Sioux nickname may seem trivial, the deeper issues underlying this topic are at the core of the West's concepts of freedom. Seems the NCAA's view on logos closely corresponds with mullahs' viewpoint on cartoons, sans violence.

Obtained a copy of UND's lastest rebuttal to the NCAA. Phil Harmeson wrote an earlier appeal if I'm not mistaken, but this letter seems to clearly spell out what UND's intentions are if the nickname "Policy" is not reversed. The letter is not stamped with any restrictions, so, if anyone is interested in some reading, portions of the letter and attachment are in the next postings. Note: The letter was four pages and the attachment was 21 pages - left out the "dry" parts.

Informant: By June, UND will have announced a DI move. Within a year to eighteen months, UND will also have a conference bid in hand, at the same time NDSU receives one. Within 3 years, UND facilities will be the envy of mid-major DI schools (if they aren't already), while NDSU will still be "working" on theirs. Don't let the superficial glitz, demand-it-now, and media-hype world of Southern California crowd your thoughts as there is still a virtue called patience, at least at UND. UND's leadership has continually been derided as lacking vision by NDSU fans (and some UND fans). Time will disprove those potshots - wait and see. Patience, Informant, patience. For UND, there will be no public humiliation in being rejected by conferences multiple times. UND will have done all of their homework (and I mean ALL) before their move. BTW, nearly all my relatives are either Mayville Lions, Portland Pirates, or MP Patriots, so I understand your passion for BB.

Heard that back in 2002, but its still the same story. Has an architect been hired, yet? A decent basketball facility should have been the top priority in attracting conference interest, not the football meeting/locker rooms in the FargoDome. At least UND is getting the facilities upgraded before the move. Still don't understand what NDSU is going to do when their BSA is all torn up during a refurbishment: play and practice in the Fargo Civic or Bentsen Bunker fieldhouse? That would be embarrassing to showcase what will probably be NDSU's best ever men's team in two years.

Sioux fans may find it odd, but why would Buning even bring up the subject if there wasn/'t some real possibility of significant private donations backing it. IMO, its 50/50 probability that UND will start construction on an indoor facility AND an ALERUS expansion prior to, as an example, NDSU's BSA being refurbished.

Certainly not in the near future. But the key issue is that the NCAA would allow UND to compete at the DIA football level only if it had a stadium capacity of > 15,000. It has been waiving the 15,000 average attendance requirement for a number of WAC, MAC, and Sun Belt IA schools. Personally, I think there are two key underlying issues: (1) the Big Sky wants members (and future member) schools to have the capability of becoming a DIA school (which means they must eventually meet a 15,000 seat requirement), and (2) NDSU theoretically can go DIA right now, if a conference would accept them, because of the seating capacity of the FargoDome. It is in NDSU's interest to separate itself as much as possible from UND so it can proclaim its athletic "superiority". There are doomsday conference realignment scenarios that would force the WAC, out of desperation for its own survival, to offer NDSU conference membership. UND would want to be a candidate (in addition to or instead of) if that scenario ever played itself out.

The CHA has one 'name' school (AFA), while the Great West has three notable names and one existing rival (Denver). Out of 57 lacrosse teams, Denver is rated #22, Ohio State is #21, and N Dame # 12 and Notre Dame has actually reached the semifinals recently. The Great West Lacrosse League should more properly be compared to the ECAC rather the the CHA, based on the academic reputations and their on-field performances. And DI basketball has recently been dominated by very few schools: Connecticut, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Indiana, Syracuse, Arizona, UCLA, - that is out of 300+ schools. UND is not likely to dethrone North Carolina, Princeton, Virginia, Syracuse, or Johns Hopkins, but UND would have the potential to have a decent and entertaining program. (Wasn't the same said about UND hockey in the 1940's?) Consider that the seating capacity of the Alerus is perfect for Lacrosse - a little noise reverberating from a few thousand fans would instantly give UND quite a reputation as a raucous and desirable location for recruits from the west, midwest and Canada to play at. No other school has such a venue that is practically ready-made for lacrosse. The only other domed stadium in the sport, the Carrier Dome is way too big to offer as much fan energy. Agree that crowds for women's hockey can increase, but it also has to compete with the men's teams, high school teams, and somewhat with basketball teams for fans. Winter offers too many spectator choices. UND fans need a springtime choice - for weekend evenings.

Why is $35 million being thrown out as the capital campaign goal when the study to determine long-term facility needs supposedly hasn't been completed yet? Why $35 million, rather than $10 mill or $20 mill? Is a major gift coming to UND that just happens to $35 MM? Could this be the thinking? To the south end of the Alerus add a practice facility that could also have movable/retractable seating so the Alerus capacity is effectively 17,000 seats in a horseshoe configuration? This would allow UND to have the option of going to IA football in the future.

There are nearly twice as many women's lacrosse scholarships available than men's - there has got to be a big pent up demand for college lax opportunities for men, especially in the midwest and west. As far as the 50 walkon-s, that should be restated: 36 players with 1/3 scholarships and 14 or more walk-ons. The differences between lacrosse and baseball or lacrosse and swimming is that UND could almost immediately get admission to a power conference in lacrosse and actually have a potential for revenue. Baseball or swimming would not get into power conferences nor would they generate revenue. Based on the poll on this site, if 10% of Sioux season ticket holders would buy season tickets for men's lax, that would be 600/game as a base. If the 55% fans attending hockey games would go at least one lax match / year, (conservatively 11,000 fans x 55%) that's 6000 one-game tickets / year. So 600 season tickets + (6000 one-game tickets / 6 games) = 1600 average attendance. Most other lacrosse locations have professional teams located nearby that compete for $'s and attention. In GF, after mid-March, there really is no spectator sports available and the weather is not often amenable to other outdoor activities compared to locations like Maryland. Supposedly, a minor league indoor football team is looking at locating in GF and playing in the spring. Which would create more interest: indoor football at the Ralph costing $15 or a Sioux Lax match at the Alerus costing $10? I think the average fan would be more interested in a Lax match, because of the Sioux label and Sioux tradition. I agree that a number of losing season would dampen interest, but attendance could be sustained because of tailgating, there is a lack of other springtime weekend evening events, it will have the Sioux label and people will initially like the novelty of it, and then grow to love it. Yes, it would be a risk. But I like the potential returns, especially compared with being destined to mediocrity in the DI sports of baseball, softball, tennis, and golf. At the DI level, putting money into those sports is much more irresponsible at UND, IMO.

The difficulty of dropping of any sport shouldn't be trivialized. Many individuals and alums have significantly contributed to and been enriched by the non-revenue sports mentioned - there's a lot of emotional attachment, as there should be. If men's (but not women's) lacrosse was added, baseball and men's golf would probably have to be dropped for Title IX purposes. For baseball, softball and swimming, if UND gets in the Big Sky, conference affiliations would need to found for these sports. UND has been able to perform well at the DII level in baseball, tennis, and swimming (won't mention softball and golf), but geography, weather, and facilities all conspire against us at the DI level. If lower level southern conferences like the Sunbelt and Atlantic Sun often have better programs in these sports than Big Ten schools, what chance does UND have to be competitive? UND should put their resources into a program where the recruits would be excited to come (by the facilties, the fan support, and UND's academic offerings) and where no more capital would need to be spent (i.e. unlike baseball/softball). Lacrosse seems like a perfect opportunity waiting to happen.

After asking around on a lacrosse board, here are some costs with a DI Lacrosse team (adjusted for UND's situation): Startup Costs: Players Equipment: $27,000 (may get reduced pricing) Team Equipment: $ 4,000 Game Uniforms: $ 12,000 Recruiting before: $25,000 Coach transition: $50,000 Total Startup $ ~120,000 Annual Costs: Travel& Lodging $ 150, 000 Salary & Benefits: $ 100,000 Scholarships & R&B: $ 36,000 (for 2 out-of-state scholarships, later $216,00 for 12 scholarship) Recruiting costs: $ 30,000 Alerus costs (?): $ 50,000 (?) Est. Cost:: $366,000 (w/ 2 scholarship) Est Cost: $546,000 (w/ 12 scholarships) Revenue: 1500 average paying attendance: (1500 x 6 home games x $10/ticket) = $90,000 3000 (stretch) paying attendance: (3000 x 6 x $10/ticket) = $180,000 Benefits: 50 or so lacrosse players (including walk-ons) paying out-of-state tuition (50 x $12,000 x 67%) = $400,000 in extra tuition to UND from lacrosse players who would otherwise not attend UND In addition: In order for men

hockey10: Sounds like we have are fortunate to have a wealth of lacrosse knowledge on our campus right now. Have you been seeing a lot of growth in the numbers for your lacrosse camp? How well would a lacrosse camp do if it was on the UND campus? Just curious, what schools made offers? Do you think other lacrosse-playing schools would welcome a geographically outlying school like UND? Do many Western or Canadian lacrosse athletes get scholarship opportunities at the mostly East Coast lacrosse schools? Do you think UND could average 2000 in attendance for a lacrosse season? TIA, hockey10!

Since this is a slow week, thought it would be interesting to see what kind of interest there would be among hockey fans to a UND DI men's Lacrosse team. UND could actually get in a decent conference: Great Western Lacrosse League Ohio State Notre Dame Butler Denver Air Force add North Dakota --> permanent autobid for the Great Western Lacrosse Most matches would be played on the weekends in the springtime, and UND could use the Alerus as a venue. There's been quite a bit of discussion already here: http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...75entry128975 Positives: Revenue potential Affiliation with Big 10 / Pac 10 schools Alerus has open dates in spring and needs more events Proposed practice facility could be used - limited conflict with football Athletes available from Canada/Twin Cities/Denver/Chicago/Seattle with otherwise limited scholarship options With ~35 players on a team and only 12 scholarships- top players do not get full rides (so talent gets disbursed among more teams compared to hockey, football, basketball) Getting walk-ons might not be as difficult as expected - most other lacrosse schools are private with large tuitions or public with high academic requirements Would increase geographic diversity of students UND would be a leader and trendsetter / not a follower - in this region Fast growing sport Northern location not harmful compared with other spring sports like baseball/tennis/golf Generally appeals to hockey fans Tailgate weekends in the spring Negatives: Money, money, money Lack of local familiarity with sport No local athletes Startup costs Recruiting / travel costs Practice facility required before startup Would probably require dropping other spring sports like baseball, golf, or tennis Doesn

No question. Although this year I did expect NDSU women's attendance to exceed their men's team, but those teams have gone in opposite directions. UND women's attendance should be easily capable of cracking the top 50 DI attendance - it takes only a 2400 average. Montana actually places 21st in DI attendance at 4200 (for 2003-4). One issue with the Big Sky schedule is that the men's and women's schedules are mirror images: when Montana State men are playing at Idaho State, Idaho State women are at Montana State the same night. It doesn't lend itself well to travel if you follow both teams.

Other than men's hockey, women's hockey is for all practical purposes the only other sport in which a DI championship for UND is attainable. The cost/benefit ratio of non-revenue sports like baseball, softball, golf, tennis, and track will become "ridiculous", relative to women's hockey, when UND goes DI.