star2city

Interesting post, sioux89. You confirm that Harmeson has indeed been talking with members of the Big Sky conference. Whether or not UND does indeed gain DI conference acceptance is largely dependent upon him, not Buning.

Other than Southern Utah, there are no other western teams ready for IAA football. (Cal Poly and UC-Davis do not want entrance into the BSC.) Western Washington and Central Washington may be capable of being BSC members sometime in the future, but not now.

Seems like FGCU only committed to DI because their was strong informal assurances that they would receive an Atlantic Sun conference bid: FGCU banking on A-Sun invitation

If UND announces a DI move this summer, there will be at least one "classmate." Today, Florida Gulf Coast University (FGCU) announced that they will be moving to DI: http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...S/60117007/1075 They don't have an official conference invite, but the Atlantic Sun will likely take them. Other related stories: UC-Davis finds Division I daring Decision Day for FGCU

IMO, UND would not be going to the trouble of having a public DI committee review the merits of DI vs DII if something serious was not already brewing in the background. UND is the school most vulnerable geographically - it can't afford to let the NCC die unless it is the first to jump ship. UND has already seriously studied the details of a DI for a number of years. A conference affiliation and money have always held UND back. At least one of those is no longer an issue. USD may not have a choice but be separated from state-named schools: they have the most limiting facilities, the lowest funding, the least enrollment, and reside in a "city" that is barely more than USD. For USD, a DI NCC might have been one of the few conceivable manners in which they could make DI a go without a major sugar daddy.

Seems like you connected the wrong dots. ( It seems a number of us jumped to conclusions.) So if UND got a new AD, would you get your job back?

Fort Hays State to MIAA With Ft Hays St joining the MIAA, that conference should be back at 10. Either a combo of UNO/UNK or UNO/USD would likely be very tempting if the MIAA moved to 12.

Rather interesting that Bismarck now seems to be following Grand Forks' lead on building an attached hotel complex to their Civic Center. Interest grows in Civic Center hotel Have to believe that the CANAD/Alerus combination arena/convention center/hotel/water park complex is making other regional convention centers/arenas nervous.

Seems that an outside group believes there is potential for a spring-time indoor sport in Grand Forks: Indoor football league sizing up Bismarck (and Grand Forks) A GF team could presumably play in either the Ralph or the AL (with the movable stands). But which would draw better: a minor-league indoor football game or a lacrosse match with the Fighting Sioux label?

When the Sky met last on expansion, it was more to lead the 'SU's on about the Sky's interest. They don't want two ineligible schools, SDSU/NDSU, until are both fully DI qualified. (They will take one ineligible shool, e.g. UNC with one more year.) It's like waiting to ask the girl next-door out next she turns 18 (when the Sky is 25).

Isn't the "fine" something like $50,000? An exit fee in even lower level DI conferences is often in a low six-figure range.

That's almost enough for an indoor practice facility. BTW, when does the BSA refurbishment start? Has NDSU begun using tuition waivers this semester? Last fall Chapman himself stated they might need start doing waivers, if the fundraising didn't keep up. Fargo seems to be quite the growth market, both in population and in Sioux fans. That market doesn't seem to be too fascinated with the Bball teams down there, based on attendance.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/13596988.htm A few somewhat rhetorical questions: Why were no recommendations requested in the task force report? Why the May date, rather than next fall, or late this summer, for the task force’s report? Was the key provision in the consultant reports blessing a DI move for NDSU and SDSU premised on obtaining conference affiliation? Could it be, that an unofficial conference bid is already in the offing for UND, so there are fewer unanswered questions? With that in mind, is the intent of the task force to create a consensus in the community that DI is a viable option rather than make to actually make DI decision? So in effect, isn’t the creation of the task force exactly what would be suggested by consultants? May 2006 - Task force report submitted to Kupchella Summer 2006- Kupchella announced UND will enter the exploratory year for DI in the 2006-7 school year, UND remains in the NCC through June 30th, 2007. No other NCC schools make the September 1st DI declaration deadline. October 2006- The Big Sky announces they will again study adding additional schools. Feb 2007 - The NCAA imposes a moratorium on schools moving up to DI. This action effectively freezes other NCC schools from moving up. May 2007 - The Big Sky adds three schools, UND, NDSU, and SDSU for the 2008-9 school year and will begin divisional play. Aug 2007 - UND begins the limbo season - not DI nor DII. Football and basketball schedules are brutal, but only for one year. Aug 2008 - UND enters the Big Sky Conference, as well as NDSU and SDSU. Relative to the expense accrued by NDSU’s transition, the UND athletic department will have saved approximately 8 million dollars in expenses while waiting for a conference affiliation relative to DII costs and avoided nearly 1 million in lost ticket revenue due to minimizing the time period with no conference affiliation.

Is it also true that Harmeson also has an uncanny insight into Big Sky politics and their needs?

Periodically, the NCAA has had moratoriums that prevent schools from moving up to DI. Seems as if the NCAA convention is contemplating another such period starting as early as 2007, which may cause UND to be all the more serious about this study period. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/13580449.htm

What makes the finances all the more interesting is that damages get tripled in the case of an antritrust violation. What would be UND's compensation from the NCAA for 3 times the negative publicity value in the New York Times, Washington Post, and on Nightline for falsely representing UND as hostile and abusive? UND Shopping list: 1. Trust fund for DI scholarships 2. Indoor practice facility 3. American Indian Museum / Student center 4. Biolab 5. other ?

Have to respond to this NDSU vs UND engineering talk. Coming from a large family, five of us are engineering graduates: 3 from UND and 2 from NDSU. (Seven of us have science/technical degrees: 4 from UND, 3 from NDSU). NDSU vs UND is not at all a divisive issue at family reunions nor has it ever been. However, of the three UND engineering grads, one sister now does consulting for oil companies on their oil reserves, one brother has his own civil engineering business in a western state, and I’ve been fortunate to stay gainfully employed as a senior chemical engineer at a specialty/pharmaceutical-type manufacturing facility. All three of us have, on more than one occasion, encountered arguably much less accomplished NDSU engineering graduates in the workplace. These NDSU grads, who upon learning of our UND degrees, almost without exception have publicly mocked our UND degrees as substandard and in the process have make a public a@@ of themselves. Even at my current workplace, an NDSU grad, who is by-and-by a pretty decent guy, can’t seem to let it go - and my co-workers look at me with an “is he nuts?” look. Having worked in the west, in the northeast, and in the south, I have never encountered that kind of behavior from any other engineering graduates from Big Ten / SEC / ACC /PAC-10 schools or even MIT/Penn/Cornell grads. To my knowledge, my two brothers that are NDSU grads, one who works where the main managers are UND engineering grads, have never had a UND grad rip into them about their credentials. Hopefully, one day, NDSU engineering grads (brothers excepted) can come to grip with their insecurities about their mythical superiority.

It is rumored that the MWC may go to 10 or 12: if it can get the higher rated WAC/CUSA teams (like UTEP, Boise State, and Fresno State) it could possibly get BCS status. That is why TCU joined the MWC, because both the MWC and TCU saw the potential for an auto BCS bid if the MWC power rankings meet or exceed the Big Easts. If the MWC adds teams, the WAC will be poaching the Sky or Great West (Davis) for teams. The Big Sky needs to have more than 9 teams if this occurs. Not true for Troy, South Alabama, La-Monroe, La-Lafayette, Ark St., or W. Kentucky. Also a false statement. Denver joined in 1999, while NMSU joined in 2001. Idaho and Utah St were football-only members after NMSU joined. http://denverpioneers.collegesports.com/sc...o/timeline.html http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_i...state/index.php Denver has been waiting for the WAC. If a nine-team league like that WAC that is one step above the Big Sky would be interested in Denver w/o football, it would be insanity for the Big Sky not to have also been interested in a football-less Denver. Denver has said no to the Big Sky. http://www.spokesmanreview.com/allstories-...604&ID=s1516798

Iowabison: You are still not grasping some issues here. With the NCAA requiring DI schools to sponsor 14 sports (16 if its DIA football), most lower-level DI schools already are stretched financially which by default limits "cherry-picking" of sports. The rationale for the Big Sky requiring sponsorship for 15 sports is a legacy of when that league had only 6 members. By requiring all members to sponsor conference sports, the conference champion automatically gains an NCAA bid. If the Big Sky goes to 12 teams, that requirement limits the Big Sky's flexibility. IMO, with UND's geographic location, an existing conference would be more likely (not less likely) to accept a school like UND if the members of the conference did not have to send its non-revenue teams to Grand Forks. Use Denver U as an example. Here are Denver U's mens sports and the conference affiliation: BBall - Sunbelt Golf - Sunbelt Hockey - WCHA Lacrosse - Great Western Lacrosse Skiing - Independent Soccer - Mountain Pacific Swimming - Sunbelt Tennis - Sunbelt The Sunbelt Conference Sponsors nine Men's Sports - Baseball, Basketball, X-Country, Football, Golf, Swimming, Tennis, Indoor Track, Outdoor Track So DU sponsors 4 out of 9 Sunbelt men's sports and sponsors 4 other sports outside the Sunbelt. When DU was accepted into the Sunbelt, the closest conference school was North Texas St. In fact the Sunbelt had just kicked out Texas-Pan Am partly because of travel (among other issues). UTPA was much closer to Sunbelt schools than Denver was. Denver's lack of sponsoring Sunbelt sports actually helped it get into the Sunbelt conference because the other schools were not forced to travel to Denver as extensively. With the Sunbelt having 12 schools, having 6 schools playing one sport is not difficult to acheive. By allowing DU to be flexible in its sports offering, the Sunbelt's openness toward diversity allowed DU to maintain an athletic program best geared toward its community and toward excellence. That kind of policy helps both the Sunbelt and DU prosper. With a conference like the WAC having shown interest in DU (without requiring different sports sponsorships), the Big Sky, if it moves to 12 teams, will not maintain such a limited and constraining policy on sponsoring 15 specific sports.

The numbers above were based on the last posted schlarships from this forum (except W Hockey - which should now be at 12). Won't add a column, but already had the DII allowable numbers: Men DII allowed Football 36 Basketball 12 Hockey 18* (DI) T&F&XC 12.6 Baseball 9 Golf 3.6 Swimming 8.1 Total allowed by DII: 99.3 = UND fully funded @ DII Total with NCC restrictions: 81 = UND fully funded in NCC Women DII allowed Volleyball 8 Basketba 10 Hockey 18* (DI) T&F&XC 12.6 Softball 7.2 Golf 5.4 Swimming 8.1 Tennis 6 Soccer 9.9 Total 85.2 = UND fully funded in DII

Totally agree that there will need to be cuts. A sport like golf, which now consists of van trips, will become much more expensive with the travel involved. A decision on DII vs DI is also about recruiting local/regional vs regional/national athletes, having a mix of sports with a chance of being competitive, having sports that help pay their way, and doing the most with the resources and facilities and climate limitations we have. Here's a table that show scholarship requirements if we maintained all sports and went DI fully funded, DI and dropping sports, and DI w/ lax.. Men . . . . Now . . . . DI-Full . . DI-lite . . . DI+lax Football . 36 . . . . . 63 . . . . . 63 . . . . . . 63 Basketball 12 . . . . . 13 . . . . . 13 . . . . . . 13 Hockey . . 18 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18. . . . . . 18 T&F&XC . 3.5 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 6 . . . . . . 6 Baseball . 2.4 . . . . . 11.8 . . . . x . . . . . . x Golf . . . . 0.2 . . . . . 4.5 . . . . . x . . . . . . x Swimming 3.3 . . . . . 8.1 . . . . . 8 . . . . . . 8 Lacrosse . x . . . . . . x . . . . . . x . . . . . . 12 Total . . . . 75.4 . . . . 136.4 . . . 108 . . . . 120 Women . . Now . . . DI-Full . . DI-lite . . DI+lax Volleyball 8 . . . . . 12 . . . . . 12 . . . . . 12 Basketba 10. . . . . 15 . . . . . 15 . . . . . 15 Hockey . 12. . . . . 18 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18 T&F&XC . 4 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18 Softball . 5.5 . . . . . 12 . . . . . x . . . . . x Golf . . . . 1 . . . . . 6 . . . . . x . . . . . x Swimming 6.56 . . . . 8.1 . . . . 8 . . . . . 8 Tennis . . 2.5 . . . . . 8 . . . . . 8 . . . . . 8 Soccer . . 8 . . . . . 12. . . . . 12 . . . . . 12 Lacrosse . x . . . . . x . . . . . x . . . . . 12 Total . . . . 57.56 . . 109.1 . . 91. . . . . 103 Its much easier to understand how a DI lax team could be supported (especially if we stay DII) than how football will generate more revenue to pay for its nearly doubling of expenses at the IAA level. In reality, the only way DI men's lacrosse works is if men's swimming is also dropped (and women's swimming stays so a women's lacrosse team does have not to happen). Considering that the Big SKy "mandates" M&W golf & M&W tennis, swimming may well be on the chopping block if we were in the BSC and the conference kept their requirements.

To be truthful, I am very surprised at the friendly reception that lacrosse has received on this board. There is a healthly amount of skepticism too (as there should be), but there isn't derision and the topic doesn't seem to generate divisiveness among fans. If you think UND lacrosse is an idea worth exploring, contact the athletic department. Let them know why you would support UND adding lacrosse and how you would help support it (i.e. buy game tickets). Tom Buning's e-mail is: tombuning@mail.UND.nodak.edu

Not sure that recruiting would be hurt. There are a number of gals that leave Minnesota and even ND for DI opportunities and normally they are much more inclined than men to stay closer to family: [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=112297

A good comparison may be the USHL, which locates hockey teams in non-traditional hockey cities. Based on the players and hockey traditions in that region, hockey should draw poorly in Kearney, or Lincoln, or even Sioux Falls, but it draws well. It seems the answer is that hockey fills a void in those cities and has helped generate more hockey players. In late March, April, and May, Grand Forks and the region has a spectator sport void that needs filling. UND lacrosse could take advantage of that void. There are actually two professional lacrosse leagues, and both setting up teams in cities that have almost no lacrosse tradition. With a Fighting Sioux label, lacrosse would draw better than in GF than if a minor league lacrosse set up shop. Interest in playing lacrosse locally would follow. IMO, lacrosse has much more chance than soccer of having a major impact on American (and upper Midwest) culture.