SDSUFAN

PCM: I am hardly a Ralph but then I dont own Imperial Palace Casino on the strip either. Let me add that I never implied I was National Institute of Health director, and the other alphabet soup groups who do have research dollars. I am proud of my modest gifts and I think what a person gives back in return after leaving campus show what kind of loyalty you have towards your alma mater. I feel I am a giver and taker. I am not done giving yet either, but feel no need to post that on this board. In view of Mr. Englestad's untimely death yesterday, it would appear UND meant a great deal to him. I said before, that I have admired Ralph for his business know-how. He has given back in a big way by building the ice arena and hiring local contractors. I think any institution that is after federal research dollars must be connected with the state congressional delegation in Washington. Althetics help provide that connection with free passes etc.

Jim: Ms Jost first made her announcement of the petition through the Brookings Register Speak Out column on the editoral page. The Register is cheap and does not put these columns on the web. She had included a email address. Here it is: SDSU in Division II E-mail Address(es): sdsudivisionii@yahoo.com I have no problems with her finding out about what I have posted here. I told her in the first email, that I had no intentions whatsoever of signing her petition. So I have never seen it, but I trust our bright students at SDSU who have observed and commented to that affect in the article that appeared in the Collieigan. Since you admonished others for posting entire articles on this message board, I think you should go to the SDSU site and see the entire article. Here is their email addy, and you may have to sign up for a pass word if you have not already done that. SDSUCollegian@collegepublisher.com

PCM: Athletics are very important. I got a MBA from Keller, a diploma mill. No athletics, just a healthy bottom line on their financials. No athletes no glee club, nothing they had offer but a request to have you take some more of their courses at an additional mark-up. With out the athletics at SDSU, I would not have given them $25,000 over the past 15 years. I could give to church and get the same itemized deduction on the Form 1040. I feel very passionate about South Dakota and its image. I wanted to kick some old fart in the ass in a elevator in Kansas City when he saw my SDSU sweet shirt and thought I was from San Diego State. The dumb A@@ did not know that San Diego State has black and red as their colors and I was wearing a bright blue and maize sweetshirt. Not only that it said South Dakota State on the sweatshirt, but he was to lazy to read it. Its stuff like that I am so tired of .

We seem to be quoting the Collegian article piece meal. I dont fear Ms Jost or her petition. Its a civil right open to Ms. Jost, but its also maybe a good way to not get tenure or lose your job. In the Collegian article, a member of the Student Senate made comment that certain statements that are part of the petition are not accruate, and well I hope Ms. Jost enjoys being corrected in front of the regents, by Dr. Oien or even by her boss Peggy Miller. Peggy is very graceful, but can get point across without letting the smile disappear from her face. So good luck Lorna, you will need it at the Regents meeting on Dec 4th.

PCM: It has a lot to do with research. There is a Sun Grant that was announced this summer and I posted the detail on that. It does not include partners who are D2 unfortunately. Pres Miller is working on a number of research projects and having a higher visiblity in athletics will help draw research. Its hard to make a correlation, and show it to you in a graph, but it plays a very indirect part. The only other D2 school among the land grant schools is Alaska Fairbanks. Oh gee even Alaska Fairbanks has D1 hockey so bully for them. Where does that leave a land grant school like SDSU? A backwards D2 school in one of the best D2 conferences in the country So I say BFD and BFD does not stand for Brookings Fire Department in this context. NDSU and UCD are going D1AA , both Land Grant Schools, so its makes a lot of sense. Its not about being a parent and chastizing your child because the neighbor kid does something and your child wants to do the same, but some of that mentality is being expressed by those who oppose this move. I dont like being a graduate of the only Land Grant School created by the Morrill Act of 1862 that can not afford a single D1 program. No wonder people get that stupid look on their face when you say you are from South Dakota. Try that out in Chicago. Outside image, South Dakota is just fine just a little warmer than North Dakota, thanks to the equator. I bet I could fine people in the twin cities that don't have a clue about South Dakota. Being a higher level helps draw students from a urban setting, something that SDSU has not been very agressive about in the past. Its about image and how can our image improve at SDSU when you insist in being just like we have been for the last forty years. "What is good enough for me is good for the future" is what some old farts like you are thinking in insisting that we stay D2. SDSU can no longer being content with recruiting 40 or 50 students from the Pierre area. We need to broaden our efforts academically and athletically. There are students out there that will come to SDSU to study and participate in sports. Governor Pinchoet aka William Janklow put up barriers to keep out of state students out and that was a big mistake. Alums of SDSU, and other State schools used to be able to send their kids to SD at instate tuition rates. Pincheot, I mean Janklow put an end to that and Janklow hurt USD more than any of the other schools. Its about image, you bet it is and also research dollars. I spoke with the Dean of the Graduate School at SDSU last spring at the SDSU foundation banquet. I did not see your face there, PCM. Must have been home in GF watching UND Hockey videos. I asked the Grad School Dean what he thought of the D1 issue. He told me he was greatly in favor and he thought SDSU has lost graduate students because of being at the D2 level. These grad students are not from Pierre South Dakota but from other parts of the country and want to watch good events on weekends. They dont usually give a damn about UND Hockey or the NCC nor are they going to become D2 fans in the two or three years that they are on campus. Gee if SDSU only had a Ralph Englestad. Life would be so simple and heck we could stay D2.

Just to substantiate my comments about Ms. Jost personal agenda here is an excerpt from a private email a few weeks ago. "I do have a personal interest - my nephews Sr. and Jr. in High School are both being heavily recruited by basketball and football programs in the area - Both D1 and D2, and including SDSU. They like to win and are very competitive. Neither will look at SDSU (where just about all of their extensive numbers of aunts and uncles have gone to school) if it goes D1 - because they won't be able to play for championships. I am hating like the devil thinking that "U" may have a chance at them!" The "U" Ms Jost is referring to is USD.

JBB: What Jost does not say, but what she told me privately in an email is that she has two nephews who are being recruited by SDSU. The nephews want to play for a National championship, and this is her private matter driving her. Kind of selfish if you ask me. I reminded her that she would probably gain research dollars if we did go D1, but she apparently is more concerned about her nephew's desire to play for a national championship.

To get this thread back on topic, I was at the UNC game on Saturday in Greeley. UNC played remarkable after being down 21-0. Believe me, UNC never needed Cutlip and Dalton has to regret making the decision to play Cutlip instead of Passard. I would take Passard over Fjeldheim, because he has a strong long arm. UNC seems to be on a roll right now. NWMSU is suppose to have a bigger o line and that may make the difference. CMSU line was about 280 and UNC had many 300 big macs. A CSMU fan on D2 football claims a number of holding calls were missed and held one Mule defensive player all day. I think CMSU saw the game films of UNC and the NCC and thought we can not run on these guys so lets dream up some trick plays. It worked for a while, but UNC in NCC fashion clawed their way back into the game and won big time.

U2B1: This has been explained by others. I guess I had forgotten about the legislation. Ralph no doubt can use the operating losses, and how is tax accountant or accounting staff treat this on his return would be interesting to know, but I guess you got to be a bean counter to really care. I know Ralph has deep deep deep pockets.

Let me add my two cents as a daily on line reader of the Fargo Forum. What I recall from the Carr report that was reported in the Forum, they said the Bison Sports Center had very poor lighting and after seeing a few games there I would tend to agree. I dont think Carr recommended a new facility, but refurbishing the current structure. There are a number of things that could be done at BSA and a new building may not be necessary at this time. They will need to raise the money to do the refurbish job which could be done through the NDSU Foundation and Teamakers. I dont think they would need to get involved with the City of Fargo again. Also the Dome has been used for CBA basketball, and its possible to work something out from that angle for D1 Basketball. I dont find Hyslop as a great place to watch basketball either. Those bleachers are good for the back specialists and the UND med school must get some practice patients who are also basketball fans. Its hard to believe that Hyslop and Allee Gym of Morningside fame were the two newests facilities in the NCC back in 1951. I would think it would be easier for NDSU to fit into a CBA schedule than it would be for UND to fit in the hockey schedule at REA. Less set up costs I would think from Hockey/basketball as compared to Basketball/basketball at the Fargo Dome.

I forgot to add my condolences, to the Hester family and UND fans. Age 57 is young, especially when you are 61.

This is a guy I should remember but do not too much. I did see Phil Jackson play once in the winter of 1965 when he was a Sophomore for UND. Phil was so skinny and gangly guy, but he shot very good from the free line. The skinny kid got the inside shots and SDSU did a great job of fouling him as Phil seemed to be at free throw line a great deal that night. Thats about all I can recall. It seem like there were at least 5 players of color on that UND team and that was very exceptional for 1965. When I got out of military in1970, I could not believe that Phil Jackson was playing NBA ball as he came a long ways from start to finish in his basketball career Hester if a sophomore may have been on that team that seemed to have been loaded with talent and well coached by Bill Fitch and Jimmy Rogers.

Sicokta: I agree with all you said above. I think its that March Madness check from CBS that drives all of this. Coming from a family of nine, I learned about sharing. The D1 upper crust are not crazy about sharing revenue and that why we hear 13 years and 8 years for basketball. Its a matter of interpretation. I believe the shortening to eight mentioned in the article is based on the assumption that SDSU would join a conference that already qualifies for a bid to March Madness. As an independant, it is a 13 year wait and I dont think that will be how SDSU comes to D1.

November 12, 2002 SDSU Home College Publisher Hockey team chalks up one win, one tie By Mike Gussiaas Sticking true to the rivalry formula the Jackrabbit hockey team scraped and fought out the weekend series with Dordt to come away with a 5-4 win in overtime on Friday and came out of Saturday's game with a tie. At Larson Ice Center last Friday the Jackrabbits managed to tough out Dordt to pull off the win at 2:17 in the overtime period, despite totaling 37 penalty minutes on 13 total penalties. "Sometimes when you see hockey players, you just shake your head," said coach Marty Schipull. Starting out Friday night, the two teams tallied 15 penalty minutes in the second period alone, six of those being five minute majors for roughing. Into the third period the Jacks lead 3-1 but Dordt quickly bit into that lead and took over the game on a goal with 6:12 left in the game. The Jacks didn't take long to take back the momentum of the game and tie it up and take it into overtime. Maintaining the momentum the Jacks won the game only 2 minutes and 17 seconds into the overtime period on an un-assisted goal Wes Dugstad. Although the outcome of Friday's game was what coach Schipull would want he wasn't happy with all the on-ice desicions. Saturday's game gave him more to cheer about though as the Jacks played an overall improved game that a coach would want despite that the players "were not neccesarily doing legal things to each other" Schipull said. Sticking to the formula of even games for rivals the two teams lit up the scoreboard 4-4 by the end of the second period and by the end of regulation neither team was able to pull ahead. Going into overtime for the second night in a row, the Jacks weren't able to take over the momentum as they did Friday and the game ended a 4-4 tie. "No one person stood out (against Dordt), and thats great. It's a team thing, and you have to have that group of 18-20 skating strong. This group has a lot of potential...we could have one of the better clubs that we have had in a few years," Schipull said. This weekend the Jacks will be playing at home against Iowa State University Junior Varsity. The Jacks will be hitting the ice Friday at 8 p.m. and Saturday at 6 p.m. NOT EXACTLY UND REA HOCKEY, BUT ITS HOCKEY

Here is an update fresh off the SDSU Collegian Press the campus newspaper at SDSU on the D1 Consideration: SDSU Home College Publisher Private, corporate money could cover DI, officials say By Justin R. Lessman SDSU officials pushing for the jump from Division II athletic competition to Division I have thus far touted big crowds, national exposure, high-quality competition and more prestige as reasons for the move being essential. However, if the move is made, SDSU athletes, students and fans will face, among other repercussions, a required four-year absence from DI post-season play, an 8-year eligibility wait for a chance at the "March Madness" men's basketball tournament, and a significant hike in scholarship dollars. Not to mention the prospect of scrounging up a cool $2 million to meet projected athletic budget requirements. SDSU's existing revenues have the athletic budget sitting at just more than $4.1 million. And, while a typical budget in D-I-AA is around $4.75 million, - not an insurmountable step up for SDSU - the average budget in the nearest D-I-AA league, Big Sky, sits at more than $6.2 million. That's a $2.1 million budget increase. The University of South Dakota, another D-II school previously looking at making the move, has an athletic budget of around $3.2 million. However, earlier this fall, Athletic Director Kelly Higgins announced that the Coyotes found a move to DI to be "not feasible." Despite the postulated difficulty in finding an additional couple million dollars for the required budget upgrade, a recent market analysis done by Conventions, Sports & Leisure, Inc. of Minneapolis, Minn., indicated that, with a move to DI-AA, annual revenues could increase to between $4.7 million and $5.9 million. An appealing thought. But where is that initial, get-the-ball-rolling $2 million going to come from? Dana Dykhouse, SDSU Foundation chairman, said he expected the increased budget dollars to come primarily from two sources: private funding and corporate sponsorships. "The opportunity for an increase in corporate sponsorships would definitely increase," Dykhouse said. "Information that I have received indicates that SDSU could expand its sponsorship area to a 75-mile radius. That would include the Sioux Falls metropolitan area and would unlock numerous interested corporations." As for private funding being available when needed, Dykhouse cites the fact that many of the facility improvements made on campus in the last decade to 25 years have been financed through private donors. "The new Performing Arts Center, the engineering hall addition and now Solberg; these are funded by private donors and, in many cases, the city of Brookings," he said. "When we have wanted to improve facilities, the dollars have been there." As far as facility improvement requirements, Athletic Director Fred Oien said only two concerns need to be addressed immediately. "The two we would need to look at right away are a football locker room upgrade and further expansion of the HPER wellness center," he said. Oien said the locker rooms were designed for 60, and now well over 100 football personnel use them. The upgraded locker rooms will have more room and space for medical and training areas. In the future, Oien said the university would have to take seriously the prospect of a wellness center as a stand-alone facility, improved concession facilities and landscaping at Coughlin-Alumni, relocation issues with the track, reconstruction of the baseball field, and practice facilities for soccer and softball. "Regardless of whether or not we move to Division I, these improvements will be done," said Oien. Donations and sponsorships, coupled with event concession sales and interest earnings on endowments, account for about 25 percent of SDSU's athletic budget. Approximately 13 percent comes from ticket revenue, and 34 percent stems from state support in the form of salary dollars to coaches who also teach, plus tuition. The remaining 27 percent or so is generated by student fees. Currently, SDSU's per-credit student fee is the lowest among the six state universities. While many expected that to change with a switch to DI, Oien said it would not. "We will not ask for or use additional student fee money in the immediate future," he said. "With a move, we would still, for a while, be Division II. We shouldn't be asking for fees when other important student programs exist that they could go to. Now, I'm not saying forever. In the future, we will have to evaluate the need for that source." Oien said this despite a survey conducted last year that showed students would generally not oppose a fee increase. This surprised both Oien and SA President Dan Hansen. The survey asked students if they would be willing to see a fee increase of $25 up to $100. A convincing 82 percent surveyed said they would support the $25 increase, while a still strong 64 percent said they would give up the $100 for DI sports. "That decrease as you went up is expected," Hansen said. "But the numbers were still shockingly high and that's the substantial part of it." An increased number of athletic scholarships would also add to the bill. Currently, SDSU gives the equivalent of 96.5 full athletic scholarships that total around $820,000. Oien said the number of scholarships is created mainly by combinations of fractions of scholarships. A move to DI could increase the number of scholarships offered by at least 70 more across all sports, men and women. Oien said this increase will required an additional $600,000. "This (scholarship) money will primarily come from donated dollars or planned giving," Oien said. Other, less touted costs could also add up. Throw significant travel costs and staff additions in some sports into the mix, and the bill just keeps getting steeper. With the prospect of a move very real, Dykhouse said the Foundation is ready to help out however it can. "The Foundation will support the school whatever decision it makes," he said. "We believe that the benefit to the university is well beyond athletics. It's the prestige of the university and we stand ready to support a decision." Oien said he believes that SDSU's move to DI is essential and, if approved, will be done most effectively in a gradual manner. "There will be a transition time," he said. "We will not be at the levels of other schools right away. However, we will try to catch up as quickly as we can to other schools in our conference. Patience is the key and timing is of the essence." Would you pay more student fees for a bigger union? No way If they were only increased slightly I'd pay quite a bit more Yes - whatever is needed I'm not sure Dana Dykhouse is currently a bank officer in Sioux Falls and president of the SDSU Foundation. He was a football player and was on the 1979 squad that made it to the playoffs. His son is currently in the redshirt class for coach Stieg. I so glad he has spoken as he seems to have some clout in the Sioux Falls business circles.

Purplemav: I guess I stand to be corrected on the one sport criteria for NCAA sports, but then if SDSU moved both basketball progams to D1, would the NCC still allow us to compete in their league? I dont think so. So where do we find a D1 conference. Back to Square one again. There just is not a piece meal solution. About the only thing SDSU can do is move in a very responsible manner in moving up and live with the 5 and 13 year waiting period. This 13 year waiting period has not been tested for legality nor for fairness to the NCAA membership. It could be subsequently shorted by formal complaints and hoards even a law suit. Any UND trained lawyers available? PCM: Since the Multiplex building and the hockey arena were built, there is more interest in Hockey in Brookings. They hosted the state tounament of high school clubs last spring. So I would not say "never" to the possiblity of a hockey at SDSU.

Purplefan: The rules of D2 allow one sport at D1. In SDSU case, would it be men or women basketball? Some how gender equity would eventually come into play. By the time you have settled your law suits, it might have been better to move all to D1. Thats what I am thinking. TITLE IX is alive and well. I dont have a problem with that. Women in general are much better in self esteem and are very much productive people because of varsity sports. Every 5 years my Brookings High Class of 1959 has a reunion. Every reunion, one female classmate who is currently a Roman Catholic Nun and a very dedicated person I might add is present to relive old times. When we were in High School there were no womens sports, but this Sister would have been one whale of an athlete, but other than intermural sports, that was all she had available to compete in. I often wonder what would Sister Janice would have accompolished if the womens sports started on TITLE IX had been in existence in the 1950's. We will never know.

star2city: I do not dispute what you have posted here . Right now it appears SDSU will NOT get a conference right out of the chute. I do however know that the conference availability may slow the move to D1 down until a conference is found. This could mean waiting a spell, from 1 to 3 years maybe. In the mean time, SDSU can continue to compete in the NCC and upgrade facilities and improve current D2 programs. The Carr report a good investment and also was very valuable as an adminstrative report. When the SDSU Spring game was cancelled last spring, I spent my time photo coping all 400 pages of this report that was on file at Briggs Libary. This report is extremely helpful since you have outside people looking in on every aspect of all 20 sports and there were a ton of recommendations some small, some big and all had price tags. I know this will frost the all the UND gonads, but Carr did not recommend adding D1 Hockey. So what a Conference Commissoioner says today does not get etched in stone. I believe Fred Oien is also going to make a pitch at some of these conferences this year and next spring. With our Frost Arena and a 9100 seating capacity, we may have a selling point there. There are post season tournaments other than the Big Dance for which each member can participate in during the 13 year waiting period.

I would hope the SDSU men would be the winner this year, but definitely not a cruiser season by any means. UND, USD, UNO and SCSC will provide big time competition. Also Augie and NDSU seem to give us fits all the time. Last year Nagy had some problems getting his Junior based team to play up their potential early in the season. We lost to Winona and Mich Tech, early on. Both games were winnable. I suspect this year Nagy will have some of the same problem with those guys being seniors. Hopefully "Knobby" Josh Cervny will stay healthy for the entire season. I look for the motivation to be a problem at the start of the season and hopefully it will not to costly. Starting off with Truman State and NWMSU will be a challenge, especially the NWMSU Bearcats.

Staying put in D2 means programs could go backward rather than forward. Football is a prime example. If you can fund 36 and then asked to reduce that level to 21, it makes a big difference in recruiting. I would be willing to bet that a bunch of players on current rosters have made choices based on being offered maybe as little as 500 per year. For example, NSIC school offers 300 per year, a NCC offers 1000 or maybe 1500, a year since they have 36 scholarship. Where is that recruit going to go to play football provided all other things are equal, such as course of study? Money is what talks, and if you can offer even 45 by going to D1AA, what would that do to local recruiting choices and what does it do for the recruiting of school who offers only 15 scholarships? They will lose most of the time. I think most parents want the best offer as putting kids through college is a financial challenge. The NCC may disapppear, but D2 will not, its just that it will have a different membership and programs may not be as competitive as they are now with less scholarship money. Obviously Butch Raymond SSU AD wants to be competitive and thats why is arguing to keep the current level. He is the exception in the NSIC though. I suppose his long coaching experience in the NCC probably influences his thinking. However, I think when the entire membership votes, Butch would be in the minority and maybe so in the NCIS.

JBB: If I have not learned anything else on this board, I have come to respect the business know how of Ralph Englestad. The legislators may have been smart in passing the law protecting the state of North Dakota in becoming liable for operation deficits of an athletic faculity. That being said, UND may as Jim Dahl as pointed on another thread, UND may have a good venue in hockey. Some one else pointed out that there were margins from the Ice Arena to fund women's hockey at UND. One of the big stinks that SDSU fans have raised since 1979, when the Dakota Dome came on line was the maintence cost that the state of South Dakota would bear. The state also had to help USD pay for the new roof, that has been rumored to leaked this fall. The Volente, student paper mentioned this rumor and the denial by the USD athletic department. Higgins and his lackey say they know of no leaks in the new roof. The rumor may have started in Brookings. I can not help but think that the high cost of maintenence holds true with REA in that you need a ton of janitors to keep the place clean and titty day in and day out. Then there are temperature controls that must be put in place on a daily basis. Electricty and heating fuels are not free so there are more operational costs. This is why concerts and events I would assume are needed to keep the place cash flowing. With the Alerus and the Fargodome also competing for the same events, then I think there is competition for events. Again some one is going to lose out. The three ring circus comes once a year and can not be in three places at the same time. I dont have any idea what UND's arrangement is with City Of GF for the ALerus, or with REA on the revenue that should flow to the atletic department. If nothing is published to give an idea how it works, then my guess is that its either break even or losing money. Time will tell. Both GF facilites have been on line for only a year. Maybe after 5 years of operations, the cost patterns will be more clear. I would think Roger Thomas needs to have a good negiatator to save his athletic department from getting sucked into bad deals. The law passed by the legislature doesnt protect the athletic department from bad contracts that have been excuted by the Pres and AD. You would hope they made good deals for their department.

JBB: (John) I wasnt trying to forcaste NDSU fortunes at D1AA. I was commenting on programs in general that have long traditions of winning and thats more of a compliment than criticism. I think the Bison will do real well at D1AA It just ironic that the Bison and the Huskers are down the same season after having a sustained rise and continued rise for decades. Because of the huge statewide following by the Huskers, three loses are unacceptable, and yet I think Nebraska still has a good football team. They have struggled with Troy State and McNeese in getting wins, and that is scarey for Husker fans. Next season, watch out for the Bison, some of these young Bison kids you are playing now and are getting banged around by juniors and seniors, will be some tough hombres next year. Wait and see I believe what you say about the ticket revenue and that has to be a big concern for all in Bisonland. It becomes harder and harder for keeping Babich under those circumstance. Clair

Northern Iowa Great Picture, please explain its significance. This one is for the museum. Did you take the picture? Or do you find this thread boring? Just curious.

Living in Nebraska, I see a parallel between NDSU and UNL Huskers. This morning, having an early lunch, I overheard a young couple at the next table talking about last night's UNL loss to Texas and I believe the Huskers have lost at least three games, but its a disaster in some fan minds here. The young man was complaining about Frank Solich not knowing how to recruit. As usual wifey is more rational about the whole situation, and made a comment about Nebraska fans being too used to winning every game and that some how the odds of winning every game were not possible. She said something about expecting to lose is part of the game. Here is where the parellel between UNL and NDSU lies. In 1961, before Bob Devaney took over as head coach, Nebraska was crappy and had tons of empty seats at Memorial stadium. When the Jacks played them in 1963, the game was a sellout, because Devany started winning his first season. The rest is history with a record number of sellouts for home games. After this season will the record continue? GOOD QUESTION. By the way SDSU had a great team(9-1 NCC 6-0) and still got clobbered 58-7. One of your stars from the 1963 National championship team, Doug Peterson did not get back in sync until January due to a football injury in the Nebraska game. I heard Ed Maras, who was a sophmore Jack, talk about that game, and he was a scared sophomore who got more playing time than he asked for. Although greatly out manned in 1963, it was good for a pay check for SDSU. At about the same time the Bison up North were struggling too. Bob Danielsen, a former assistant at SDSU to Ralph Ginn was a very good coach, but was working with probably a very underfunded program. The Bison went 0-10 in 1962, and after losing to Concordia, I think the president at NDSU had enough of Bob Danielsen and decided it was time to give someone the resources to put togather a winning football program. Enter the Teamakers with their contributions and that too is history. Now in year 2002, we see both teams experiencing more losses than are normal. Its awfully tough on fans who are accustomed to winning. I guess I too would be spoiled. The SDSU basketball program can dip only so far and coaching changes are made. Jim Thorson who had a winning record and at least two 20 game seasons was history in 1993, and a lot of fans do not have the full story on that. My estimate is that his exit was probably, and I dont have an inside scoop here, due to less than favorable player relations and some scholarship players not going to class. The program appeared to be going south in decision makers eyes at SDSU, a change was made. Coaches have a lot of responsiblity, and winning is the big factor at D2 or D1AA or D1A. When people on the streets and restaurants are doubting Frank Solich, its a problem for him and the institution. I would not want to be a coach at any level, especially if you losing game after game and you got a good idea why its happening and can not fix it by next weeks game. Often the coaches are in that fix. I dont follow the Huskers very closely but when some pundit on ESPN radio says the Husker are going to go 7-4 before the season begins, then the results so far should not be surpising. Its a shame all Husker fans do not listen to ESPN radio. It will be interesting to see how Solich and Babich fair at the end of the seaon. The AD's will start to be part of the picture, and what they do or dont do will have a big affect on the future of these two programs.

Jim: Interesting start of a new thread. I think both can be done at the same time, investment in athletics and academics. I do not see it as a guns versus butter issue at all. In addition, I dont think that this was what you implied either in starting this thread. I have a MBA from Keller Graduate School of Business Management, Chicago, Ill. If I had not had the GI Bill, I would not have been able to afford' Kellars tuition. Thanks to the US Taxpayers I got a MBA degree. Keller was all about academics, getting a degree, and placing graduates in strategic places around Chicago and other cities in order that the image of this school that started in 1975 would grow in the business community. Kellar has since been acquired by DeVry. The founder, Dennis Kellar is very much alive and probably has no money problems. This school, Kellar, was not for undergraduates, but a for profit MBA diploma mill. No campus, no union building, no athletics, etc. Just a floor of classrooms on a high rise building near the Chicago-Norwestern commuter train depot in downtown Chicago. I got my degree and moved on, but I still get mail about being listed in the alum directory and taking additional courses that are now priced at $1400 per course, for one semester. All of their mail goes in the circular file. I could care less. If Kellar had an athletic program, my feelings might be different. I have sent all my money to Brookings to support the Jacks. I have also helped on academic fund drives, but its the sports that have gotten the bulk of my support. I think athletics give the institution identy and a reason for alumni to still feel connected. Connected to SDSU I am but could care less about Kellar. If Ihad been admitted to USD, UND, Depaul and Loyola in Chicago, I would feel differently towards those schools because they do have athletic programs. I think state supported schools do have the upper hand in attacting people such as the UND hockey player based on low cost. Would you believe I applied for admission to UND's MBA program? Had I had better undergradate grades, I might now be defending UND instead of coming on here as an attack dog. I am still interested in the Norwegian Studies at UND. UFFDA As far as SDSU move to D1 sport, its suppose to give us a better image and attract more students etc. This all remains to be seen and I feel at this point it will help SDSU.