JBB

In a previous article Oien stated he was almost certain SDSU would move to division 1. Makes you wonder whats going on. Is the conference issue settled? Is he applying pressure to certain conferences? Is SDSU cooling its heels? I guess we will have to wait and see. In the meantime NDSU is expanding its football recruiting range. I hope they arent overlooking some of those good West Fargo Boys.

I dont think Northern State is going to be much different than Crookston. But, another look at the future of your schedule.

Golden Arm #6: As many of you know the Golden Arm is a national award presented on discussion forums across the nation. It is posted here as a convenience to all of you fans in Grand Forks. It seems nobody in the nation wants to see the Golden Arm die out. The email responses to grant the award for this final week of play were so overwhelming that the Esteemed Golden Arm Committee readily agreed. Started by Shoutin

DMB, Thanks for the note of understanding, your are, for the most part, right on target. I do enjoy twisting your tail a bit. Ive noticed the same about many of you with regard to us 'SU fans. No doubt NDSU will have some trouble getting the basketball game on track, but I think the key for NDSU basketball is the BSA (BISON Sports Arena). It has to go. With a new facility, probably 5 yrs in the future its going to be easier. As you well know with Beasly it only takes 1 and a talented supporting cast. I think NDSU, with a good recruting effort can find that one or two outstanding players and provide them with a supporting cast that can keep the team competitive. I see no reason why we cant be competitive in any conference environment. By that I mean any conference that we might legitimately join. UNO has had its fortunes turned with JC and D1 transfers. Beasly is a D1 transfer. NDSU has 2 JC transfers and with the returning seniors should be much improved. An NCC champmionship isnt out of the question, but in just a few weeks we will see if my optimism is well founded. Athletes that currently dont give us a look because we are D2 will now be potential recruits. I think thats the biggest reason we will be successfull. I dont know much about Beasly or the UNC transfers, but it's very likely they all would be on a D1 BISON squad rather than the D2 alternative. I think thats another big key.

The vast majority of schools are doing well at at the D1AA football level. The Big Sky and Gateway arent complaining. Moving up to D1AA is not to be confused with moving from D1AA into D1. Both moves are made for many of the same reasons. In addition, the move for NDSU means upgrading all sports programs. Thats a big bonus especially in basketball.

NDSU petitioned the NCAA on a ruling that would have made the probationary period shorter. It was denied. Im not surprised to see the colors changing for uendd. That would explain why "the issue" has become invisible. The good Dr. can see that the public relations battle to maintain the status que is losing in ND. Of course it is still raging in SD with the USD folks vigoursly closing ranks with all others that are against the move. SDSU is in a tougher position than NDSU and will have to excercise some very strong and steady leadership to realize the brighter future for their University and the State. The best thing for NDSU to do is get the clock ticking. 5 years isnt that long. If they were to delay making the move they would actually increase the de facto probationary period by the length of the wait plus 5 years.

The table presented is how I interpret the situation as well. It looks good to me. In year 6 your eligable for an at large bid. That means if you have a deserving team you get a bid. Thats how it is for football and basketball in D2 right now. There are no auto bids. In the probationry period I would imagine that a team wouldnt compete in any post season conference tournaments designed to single out the conference playoff representatives. It wouldnt make any sense to have them participate. I dont see any reason to explain the BSC or the Mid Con motivations. There is a lot of posturing going on. This thing is going to play out with a lot of drama and uncertainty.

The Golden Arm Award, # 5: Since loyal fans across the nation will not let the mighty and prestigious Golden Arm Award die the National Committee has decided to grace the OFFICIAL honour for one last time. Started by Shoutin

If, heaven forbid, NDSU did decide to stay D2 I think they would remain a member of the NCC. As far as I know, we are not out of the conference until the end of the provisional year. If we stay put I dont see that we would be forced out. Without a doubt they would like to see us stay. Its far more likely that we would make the move up as an independent. Our sports schedules would probably be made up of schools from conferences that might be interested in inviting us as well as existing independents. The BSC has already pledged support to help us with scheduling and mentoring us with regard to the move. This falls short of a conference invitation but is certainly a step in the right direction. I know that the Football team is already taking advantage of this by scheduling with both Montana and Montana State. We have also announced scheduling talks with the Gateway. Western Ill came up for sure. If SDSU makes the move it is likely that we would be worked in as travel partners. Kind of a test run maybe? We already have UC-Davis, Montana and Montana State firmed up. As far as I can tell UNC will remain on the schedule. If SDSU remains and the Western Ill home/home works out we are already scheduled to the extent NCC teams would be scheduled in a 7 team league. I know that the other sports have to be considered as well. Basketball has already made some paliminary announcements but, it goes without saying, it is a challenge. Tony is right when he puts the view of so many on this board in perspective. I doubt that the nay saying seen here is of any consequence except to ease the minds of people that for one reason or another would like to see NDSU stumble in this endeavour.

It is possible that schools making the move will have to remain independent for a number of years, but not likely. Drawing the conclusion that no conference will accept a school that moves up until the waiting period is over means that no conference will expand for the next 7 to 13 years unless they accept an already eligable independent. It just doesnt seem very likely. Of course if it is true, as star2city claims, that once the institution declares its intent to reclassify from Division II to Division I, it would be eligible for NCAA championships in Division I as an at-large team in five years in all sports there is little incentive to join a conference for at least 5 years when full eligability is achieved. This may indicate that the Carr report is somewhat off base with the conference conclusion. Again, if the statement made earlier by star2city is true, by joing a conference it would delay its eligability : It would be eligible as an automatic qualifier from an existing conference in 7 years in sports other than men

I dont think there is any doubt that the D2 schools will again vote for scholarship reduction. Its happened 2 times in the past. It didnt bring an end to D2 but many of the schools that made the division great moved on. If SDSU and NDSU join UNC this is a 7 team league. If UNO leaves it is a 6 team league. Even at 7 a new member would have to be found. Its unlikely that Winona will join. They are a solid NSIC member and dont seem to have the resources. I dont believe they are recruiting even the full NSIC limit now. No other NSIC school seems to be viable. Why would schools further afield, for instance an RMAC school, want to join? It would greatly increase their overhead and they already have a competitive conference. Maybe New Haven would join? But all that would do is increase costs and thats one of the big reasons other schools are touting as why they dont want to move up. In fact baring a surprise from one of the more regional schools any potential new members will have this affect. I think its far more likely for Augustana to leave the NCC for the NSIC than have another NSIC team join this league. If the league does stay intact I have no trouble seeing USD, Augi, Manakto and probably SCSU supporting a scholarship cut. for NCC D1 hockey schools Scholarship cuts may not be too important, but they leave a school like NDSU in a tough position. To get the D1 exposure it wants Its far more expensive for NDSU to add hockey than to just move the other sports up. Hockey needs facilities that arent there and there is no conference for NDSU to join. Rather than finding itself in a position where athletics are being de-emphasized and they are losing visibility they have to move up. I believe SDSU finds themselves in much the same position. That leaves the NCC is a tough spot and may force it to join with the NSIC and create a two tier league much like the LSC.

Actually SDSU fan I thought your comments were right on. It was the previous post I was refering too, by jmdahl. Why he would bother with that type of speculation is beyond me?

I dare you to wear a Sioux hockey jersey to said venues to see the attention that we Fighting Sioux fans "don't" get...... That just tells me your the most disliked, and thats not hard to understand! Apparently the idea that your the greatest rival only extends as far as the grand forks city limit. Heres one link to a BCS board: http://bigskyconference.community.everyone...ts/directory.pl

That may have been the smallest football crowd in the Fabulous Fargo Dome since BISON football started. It was awfull, but trying to draw a parallel with our D1AA future is typical sour grapes from a fan licking ugly wounds of his own. The reason BISON fans are staying away is because the BISON are not a very good football team. There is no expectation they can win. There was less than 2.500 in there when the score went to 23-7 with about 5 min left. When the BISON have a competitive team the fans will come. When they have the worst team since 1962 the fans will stay away. The coaching decision will be made this winter when the Team Makers have a better handle on renewals. NDSU lost at least $60,000 in ticket revenues yesterday and that may be what finally gets the ADs eyes open about this situtation.

The problem with D2 is exemplified when you consider suitable replacements for the schools that are leaving. So far you have UMD. After that the list gets kind of thin. The idea that schools are breaking down the door to get in is not what's happening at all. Its just as likely the NCC dies rather than grows. UMD moved in because they are D1 hockey. The future of the NCC is D1 hockey and D2 in what ever shape or form you might find it. I think in the future, especially with NDSU, SDSU and UNC gone, the NCC will support most cost saving measures proposed to D2 including scholarship cuts. Even if those schools stayed the NCC would probably support those changes because the coalition of hockey schools has the majority voice. At any rate D2 is headed in the wrong direction and the NCC schools that stand to lose are UNC, NDSU and SDSU. USD just doesn't have the resources to consider changing their position and may very well go the way of Morningside. NDSU, and in my opinion SDSU, have no choice but go D1. Staying D2 is a not a winning strategy for a growing University. SDSU fan explained a lot of that. If they add hockey they have all the same problems they have with D1 football and basketball, mainly no conference. Then they have to build an arena. Also, the visibility that D1 hockey/D2 or D3 in other sports provides has been questioned heavily by others, especially if D2 downgrades. A full slate of D1 sports is by far the better option for any school wishing for the D1 benefit. I think SDSU is in the same position as NDSU and has to make the move even with the extra risk and the grass roots opposition. I believe that opposition will quickly dissipate once the leadership makes the move. It has in Fargo. I thought a discussion on another board was very interesting. Several Gopher fans piped in putting down a sue soxer saying the biggest Gopher rivalries in hockey were the Minnesota Schools and Wisconsin, not north dakota. The grandeur of the hockey deal may be in the eyes of the beholder and more local than you think. The ace in the hole for NDSU is Dr. Champman. He comes from the BSC and may know some things about its future plans that are not generally known. But, from those of us that see the move as positive the conference issue does not seem to be the big thing that it is for those people that are critical of the move. NDSU, SDSU and UNC are going to find affiliation.

Once they announce their intention they will enter the provisional year. I think its unlikely that any news on conference affiliation will be solidified before that for either SDSU or NDSU. I believe NDSU is meeting with the Big Sky this month. This is the official introduction of NDSU to the conference. Chatter on other boards indicates a strong likelyhood that NDSU and SDSU would be accepted into the Big Sky. They want to have 10 schools and now only have 8. The 2 Dakota Schools would be convenient travel partners and both the Dakota Schools have long histories of competition with many of the BSC members. Right now they may be holding back. Idaho may not be able to survive in D1 football because of the new NCAA regulations. Of course this is still several years out. But, if they couldnt make it the BSC would like to have them back. That may mean that situation would have to resolve itself before 2 more schools would be admitted. But, they are certainly in a position to admit 1. The BSC is a good choice. The travel includes the West Coast, Az, Utah, Idaho and Montana. This would be a nice change for our recruits and I see it as a big plus. Apparently Davis will remain on the NDSU schedule for the next several years and I dont think our players mind a bit.

Mr. Sicatoka: You are a quivering vat of rancid ignorance. You speak but don

In reality, all of the speakers will be against the nickname and anyone attending who speaks up in favor of the nickname will likely be shouted down, called names, and not be allowed to effectively communicate their point...... sounds just like what happens on this forum when someone speaks in favor of the name change. I believe the Law school recommended the name be changed.

Once again you attempt to assume the responsibility only known by the esteemed members of the Committee of the Golden Arm. Your preens and chatterings are amusing at best since it is well known that the premise of the Prestigious Golden Arm is the competition between that Perennial Harlon Hill favorite and Champion of the uendd football fortunes Kelby Klosterman and the blue collar workmanlike Graig Gorder of the NDSU BISON Football Club. To try and continue the exalted competition beyond its intended purpose is only an attempt to single out those victories that may or may not have been enjoyed by those claiming your banner. Its well noted that the skillful satisfactions enjoyed by the NDSU Standard Bearer Graig Gorder have been well rewarded with Golden Arm honors much to the astonishment of those in Grand Forks that regularly touted the superiority of their champion to the region and the country. Their very attitude was a cankerous and shameful blight on the pure sportsmanship of the game. It was this very attitude that gave rise to the award that has now been most assuredly dominated during its rightful moment and after, as you have so obediently pointed out, by that universally respected player from the NDSU Football Club, Graig Gorder. It is my duty as the Master of the Golden Arm Committee to deny this unauthorized debasement of the awarding of the Golden Arm as completely and undeniably unofficial, if not in its entirety correct and well deserving.

Klosterman is an ok QB. His proxy had a good game last week. Had the award been handed out there is a chance he might have won. Naturally, a sue sox fan cant stand to be bested in anything, much less the Prestigious Golden Arm. Klostermans worthyness for the Harlon Hill is about as great as his worthyness for the covited Golden Arm. His proxy on the other hand might be a great vehicle for you to try and drive to a Harlon Hill now that Kelby is certainly out of it. I understand your frustration. After a hundred years or so of football he was your best chance. I can understand your disappointment. NDSU has several Harlon Hills and three Prestigious Golden Arms. You have one Golden Arm. Your eagerness to compete is apparent. "Good Dog, Down Boy".

I like the way you jump to conclusions. I only mentioned the new conference to illustrate the idea that anything is possible. Of course the most negative and abusive spin was applied by "you all". We will see what NDSU does. But at least they are doing something. Personally I don't care if NDSU goes independent. It actually may be the best course of action. We already have Davis and Montana on the schedule. We are talking to several Gateway schools and Montana State. We have uendd, UNC and SDSU. We are talking with several schools from the South. Several years as an independent wouldn't be all that bad. Notre Dame has done well. We have many D1AA relationships that could be revived. Im sure we could set up several very interesting D1A games. This conference thing is an example of the contrived argument. You don't want to move to D1 so any alternative other than the one you hold out as the ideal is no good and will bring your condemnation. Of course the ideal you hold out as best is the thing NDSU isn't doing. Why don't you listen to your own advice and proclaim D2 forever? I think your a good fit. You have a conference, you are giving local athletes a chance, you are avoiding scandal (code word?), you can afford it, you have great success at the level your at, your playoff eligible, you can maintain all of your natural rivalries including Crookston, you think you can win, you think you can get good grades. Can you think of any more reasons for uendd to stay D2? if so add them to the list. D2 where you belong.

The decision to reclassify comes at the end of the provisional year. Thats why during that period you compete in your existing division. Of course you cant see that point becuase your whole purpose is to be critical of the goals and missions of NDSU. A new conference may very well be formed and may provide future opportunity for you to join. Of course you would have to apply and be accepted. Its nice to see how your already lining up to get in! It wouldnt have to be new D1AA schools. It could include independents that have no auto bid now, or schools that arent happy with their current situation. There are many possibilities. University of Wyoming has been mentioned as a possible member becasue of the reclasification problems. Who knows? I think its going to be the BSC. I used to thinkg the Gateway, but they only play football. Im not sure about the situatio for other sports. Of course playing further south would enhance recruiting potential there. It would also expose us more in the Chicago and Milwakee areas. The Big SKy has many more traditional rivals though.

You take the highly critical position that NDSU has moved without having point 4 worked out. I take the position that NDSU has a whole lot of insight into the solution regarding point 4. It is far more reasonable to discuss the conference possibilities than to speculate on how careless they have been. But even from your critical point of view, you should be aware thats what the provisional year is for. Remember the report says NDSU shouldnt make the transition without a conference. If it should happen that they dont get one during the provisional year they dont have to move. That brings us back to the main converstation. Which conference? Most eyes are on the Big Sky, Mid Contenent, and Gateway. There has been speculation that a new conference could be formed. It may only be 3 or four members, but it would be created with an eye toward the future.

Basically, you can have an opinion as long as it agrees with them. ... Remind you of anyone?

Every objection that has been raised to the D1 move by NDSU is contrived and argumentive. Certainly it deserves thought, but dont you think it has been thought out? It is the Chicken Little situation: Chicken Little says the sky is falling even though it aint you know he still comes calling, again and again and again. Nobody said this would be easy, but I think it will be easier than most of you here are willing to admit. Tony, Your post summed it up. Every one of your points is right.