KnowtheFacts

sorry to jump into the fray here.... Sioux-cia, I was wondering if you had a good recipe for Carnitas? Those are the best and I wanted to know how to make them on my own since GF restaurants don't have them. (not that their mexican food is that great anyway). thanks. (just asking since you were talking about homemade mexican cooking and I havent had dinner yet)

No. I never said that. I think both groups of people need to get their act together.

I never said it did Stupid-cia! I wasnt talking about UND now was I? I was simply bringing information to the table about another sports team that uses a race to represent their sports team. Yells inside the Stadium sure, no is offended by these cheers.... just keep on living in your little fantasy world.....

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" and the ones that are around and experience the racism and ignorance are against it...hmmm. but i do think they should do something before "the anti-Semetic cries .. get violent or disrupt public order." But who cares, those Israelies have more important things to worry about. Like preserving their country.... what is a little anti-semitism and good hearted racist chants, when there are tanks and suicide bombers to worry about? Amsterdam's 'Israeli team'

I guess everyone will have to change their avatar that have the "Fighting Sioux" logo because it is hostile and abusive.

sure, why not. He's Fictional.

Not an accurate comparison. Maybe only Norwegians can paint an accurate picture of Norwegian History. Maybe the Jews have a better idea of what happened during the holocaust. Maybe what the Nazis told us wasnt exactly the whole truth?? Damn, they are still denying that! Maybe how Hitler got his ideology across was by getting people to believe something about another race of people without any input from them??? Maybe Orwell would be proud. Cuz if you read the book (1984 I presume) you would know that the "Inner Party" is always making up information about who is at war with who and never lets their people find out the truth (because they are constantly re-writing history via the ironically named "Ministry of Truth") - "Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'" Maybe if they let the other side have a voice then the people wouldn't be so damn brainwashed!

Well Ive been thinking about this one. Because we have answered it several times. It is my impression that you want a different answer. American Indian Schools are composed of......indians!! They can portray themselves how they want-some do a fine job, maybe some do not, and some have changed their names as well. Plus the fact that many of these students are actually aware of their culture.... That whole prarie knights casino pic someone keeps putting up: Well it is different when a Sioux portrays themself as Sioux. It is something else entirely when a predominantly white college whose walls lay within territory that was forcibly and unlawfully taken brag about honoring Sioux by wearing a caricature of an indian head with feathers stuck to his cheek on his or her shirt while wearing a green wig and SIOUX plastered across their butt. That whole right to self-portrayal thing.... but you dont like this answer.... (Im starting to think that the Sioux nation should have the final say on all american indian mascots and logos that caricaturize Sioux dress and traditions) At UND there is mostly white students and administration who simply call themselves "Sioux" but are NOT. (BTW Most of the Indian programs on this campus, while touted by Kupchella, are opposed to the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, but in spite of this do a wonderful job supporting American Indian students.) Like some say: "Im norwegian and I dont have a problem with the Vikings..." Well thats because it is something that white, (mostly norwegians regionally) named themselves. And if they dont have a problem portraying themselves as fat pale white men with yellow braids and pointy hats then thats their own choice. Same with the Irish. If they dont mind perpetuating the idea that all Irish are drunken redheaded leprechauns then so be it. Many Indians do mind the stereotypes. As a group they all have been dealing with the problem of misrepresentation and caricaturization by white people since the first white man walked on Americas soil. If we really want to honor Native Americans we would honor the treaties US made. We would honor the requests to not use "Fighting Sioux". There are better ways to honor a race of people than in a hockey arena or on a football field.

sorry, must have missed that one.. but if you are posting from the replies section, then I must ensure equal coverage of commentary:

Having paid dearly to save what is left of their cultures, religions and languages, they want to control how they are used and passed on. Understandably, they resent how lightly colleges appropriate their cultures for entertainment at sports events and it is particularly hurtful that this happens in higher education. The United States Commission on Civil Rights pointed this out in April 2001 when it urged non-Native colleges to retire American Indian imagery and names in sports. Im sure y'all find some thing against this article, but maybe somebody here will read and it will finally sink in....

just got this in an e-mail, thought I would pass it along for those wishing to help out. Especially since GF was in a similar situation in 1997. Those who wish to help with immediate financial assistance are encouraged to do so directly with one of the following voluntary organizations designated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency: American Red Cross (800) HELP NOW (435-7669) in English, (800) 257-7575 in Spanish Salvation Army (800) SAL-ARMY (725-2769) Operation Blessing (800) 436-6348 America's Second Harvest (800) 344-8070 Adventist Community Services (800) 381-7171 Catholic Charities, USA (800) 919-9338 Christian Disaster Response (941) 956-5183 or (941) 551-9554 Christian Reformed World Relief Committee (800) 848-5818 Church World Service (800) 297-1516 Convoy of Hope (417) 823-8998 Lutheran Disaster Response (800) 638-3522 Mennonite Disaster Service (717) 859-2210 Nazarene Disaster Response (888) 256-5886 Presbyterian Disaster Assistance (800) 872-3283 Southern Baptist Convention -- Disaster Relief (800) 462-8657, ext. 6440 United Methodist Committee on Relief (800) 554-8583

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. I guess you can say what ever you want, just dont act on it. And dont use amendment one to justify the misconstruction of others rights.

i just wanted the last word on this topic

Diggler, Im sorry you interpreted my response as hostile, because that certainly was not my intention. maybe you could interpret it as frustrated, but not hostile. I was simply trying to answer you question. okay..... I *just* said that I didn't agree with GKs behavior. How is that excusing it?

You tell me, He accussed ME of being hostile in my response. I guess you can be hostile in more subtle ways as well, but that certainly was not my intent. (as your intent is not to be hostile to Native Americans with th logo.) so Thank YOU for that.

I wasnt here at the time of the SBHE's decision but I know that there were things that happened in the background (because of leaked documents and such...) that were NOT public information. Anyway, I wasnt referring to that event. I was referring to the event that I recommended. Dont you think that if Kupchella cant get the easy facts straight then he isnt going to get the hard ones right either? I know if I dont know the easy stuff on my tests then the hard stuff I might as well just guess the answer... And that detail is very relevant. I doubt that any elder would give approval at that time since they were hardly regarded as citizens at that time.... Unless...Maybe it was like all the other treaties the US made with the Native Americans....You know where they told them it said one thing so they would sign, but really it said the opposite. REA dictates what the Athletic Department does and doesnt do in regards to hockey from all I have heard. Thats why Students are so pissed off about hockey tickets every year.... PLUS REA announced they weren't covering the logos no matter what - before UND/Kupchella ever made a statement to that effect. They can talk about other things too, but we are talking about the logo in here. Here is the American Indian Student Services Report to the NCAA. Sorry I dont have the exact spot, but it states a few times that AISS was not consulted before a response was drafted. Then when they were consulted, their recommendations were not addressed in the final report. This isnt about a chip on my shoulder. Im not accusing all of you of being the person who yelled the racial slur. I am trying to say that it does happen. And I know that it will happen whether the name is changed or not. Honestly I think that when the name is changed it will get worse, because people value the sanctity of their logo more than a human being. But FEAR is not a good reason to let the logo stay, neither is threatening to take away NA programming, and neither is harrassment. I DO think that racism is not just obvious things. While the obvious acts such as racial slurs and SIOUX-per dogs are easy to point out, the majority of racism is a very subtle thing. Like the unspoken act of crossing the street when you see a group of dark-skinned individuals walking your way... Or a female holding her purse tighter as a black man walks by... an employee following a minority around the store while he or she shopping... I just did a quick search on google and this article seems like an okay primer..Racism is Subtle. Maybe even the examples he points out are too obvious for some..... I think we are all a lot more racist than we would like to think. Just that the word "racist" is so damn ugly that we dont want to admit it. Im a racist. I have faced that fact and no I have never tied a kid to a fence and beat him, Ive never worn a white pointed hat, but I do have biases that I realize almost daily.

How was that hostile? Im not threatening to take it outside. Im not calling you names. Im giving you suggestions like you asked. You didn't like the *real* solution so I am trying to give you some other options like you wanted. Im not sure how often Kupchella gets together with Native American Programs. I know there is a lunch thing where people attending get free lunch. As a student myself, I know that if there is a free lunch, im there, no matter what the presentation. (okay, I guess I wouldnt go if I had to sign a paper saying I supported the Fighting Sioux name or sell my soul or something like that... I do have standards...). Also I do not believe that it is in a meeting format. I cant say much else because Ive never been invited. I never said I approved of GK's behavior on this board. However I also dont think the term "rabbit-choker" was aimed at anyone on this board. I also think that people on this board are rude both ways. Ive slipped up a few times myself, but I am trying to be civil. ANYHOW, we all know that the internet has looser standards than real life. And a man should be able to walk down the !!street!! without that kind of harrassment no matter WHAT he looks like.