KnowtheFacts

Im sure the Norwegian descendants of the Vikings would love to be portrayed like this. Bottom left is the worst I think. Obviously the point of this site is to make goofy caricatures and "unflattering" masks and mascots. From this site, even the forks should be offended (considering they are being called sperm!).

Ive tried several times to explain why that cant be answered, but lets slow down a little. How about Kupchella or better yet the Board of education hold a special meeting with all of the tribal leaders (Sioux and other nations from this region). How about it be a public and recorded meeting so we all know exactly what happened?? How about we don't let the officials at REA dictate how we run our school? How about Kupchella meets with the People that UND has hired to work with the Native American Students here on campus and asks for their help and resource on this matter? (Native American Programs, American Indian Student Services....) How about Kupchella get his facts straight before going public with wishy-washy info.. like the name being changed in the '20s' when it was actually changed in 1930. How about we let an Indian man on this campus can walk down the street without racial slurs being yelled to him by people wearing Sioux jerseys?? (I heard that this happened just a few days ago) Is that a start? What else can we do to honor the people we wear on our shirts.?? How about talking to the native students you see on campus instead of staring or making other assumptions before you know them? Is that a good answer? How about humility? That may be hard for you "SIOUX PRIDE" folks... just a thought.....

I think you may be confused. Ive never met a Sioux person who was offended by being called a Sioux. I think the offense comes when a WHITE person calls *themself* Sioux and wears an Indian Head caricature on their shirt or BUTT or wherever else Grand Forkers manage to plaster that logo. I think you might agree that a white person calling themself a "N-word" is not appropriate.

Diggler, this isnt just a response to you, so please dont take it as such.. What can UND do to honor Native Americans or American Indians (for that one person who thinks "Native American" refers to everyone born in America)? Well when you honor somebody dont you even bother to listen to them? Now all of the Sioux tribes except Flandreau (which by the way is the smallest tribe). That is, the MAJORITY of the Sioux tribes have stood up to say we dont want UND to use the Sioux name. Now some of you bring up the argument that the Sioux dont call themselves Sioux. They call themselves Lakota/Nakota/or Dakota. They are both. There are lots of tribes that have multiple references to what they are called. For example the US calls many natives in Arizona the Navajo. They call themselves Dine'. Does that make them less Navajo? no. Same goes for Ojibwe/Chippewa/Anishanabe just that one is what other people called them and one is what they call themselves. It isn't one or the other. It is arguing for a technicality while avoiding the issue. How come in all of this scramble, American Indian Student Services, Native American Programs havent been consulted? The administration is perpetuating all of these false or incomplete facts and no one is bothering to ask for the whole picture. If UND really wants to honor the Sioux people they will do it with honor and respectfully retire the name. It's been too long and too many people have been ignored for this to just blow over with a new logo (which is what typically has been done) or some other act of appeasement. What about all of those native american programs??? Well guess what Miss Hispanic American? Those programs were developed by.... Native Americans...IF you have a problem with other minorities getting less, then make your way back to ND, get some grants, and start some programming for your minority interests. Im sure UND will be glad to find some space for a Hispanic-American Center. Its not like white administrators developed native american programming because they thought oh, how can I honor the Sioux??? Now you are asking, "how can I honor..." , but really, I think it is too late. You havent honored in the past and the only reason you want to do it now is to keep your "hostile and abusive" traditions alive. I think the reason Spirit Lake is clarifying their position is so they can not be used as an excuse by the UND administration. Find another scapegoat. Then what? "we change the name" and no casino, you lose your programming, tuition waivers, ....... Are you trying to threaten somebody?? Is that your way of being honorable? well, I have lots more to say, but I also have a life so I dont have anymore time right now... later...

It is hard to give you any credibility when you obviously didnt read my previous posts and interpreted the quote outside of the context of the conversation. Why dont you take time to read instead of just reacting??? (Sicatoka- did you note the reference to Political Correctness meant to summarily dismiss the conversation? interesting....) You are confusing me with GK, hes the one who is a veteran. Sorry, Im not part of the Arts and sciences dept, not those other people you referred to. SURPRISE!!!! they arent the only people who feel the name should go.

I think I'm going to barf the next time I hear the cliche "politically correct."

That is part of their job. Just like Gov. Hoevenis elected to speak on behalf of North Dakotans. You will learn this in your High School Government class, unless you havent taken it yet.

Thanks for proving my point. You dont care what the tribes have to say. That is not the "honor" you brag about. Again how many times do we have to have this discussion that one or two people dont speak or act for the entire tribe unless they are elected to do so.

I think UND will be more willing to change than REA incorporated. after all UND doesnt have any control over that arena anyway as has been shown with our hockey ticket dilemna every year. Actually, even if not for the nickname thing, I think students really are upset with REA and should try to get the university to hold the hockey games elsewhere just to prove a point that students DO have influence on this university. (however, I have found that is much easier to complain than to get people to take action in this town/school. Not me personally but as a leader in student government this seemed to happen a lot when any issue came up.)

Just like you said above, "like everything in life, there are people on both sides of an issue." However, you must also acknowledge that except for Flandreau and a questionable resolution by Spirit Lake, all of the other Sioux tribes have resolutions stating that the nickname at UND should be changed. (I use the word "questionable" because there is some wording in the actual Spirit Lake resolution that Kupchella failed to mention, I would recommend if you are serious about the issue to read the resolution for yourself.) Also you should know that of all the schools that HAVE changed their names that there has not been a significant negative impact. Stanford was one of the first schools to change and they have not run into the ground due to lack of funding. Again as above, "like everything in life, there are people on both sides of an issue." Also in the same train of thought is that everybody is does not fully know the history of UND's use of the name and the present impact on Native American Students. Im not sure a thorough study has been done on this. Most people form their opinion before they know all of the facts. At this point, Im not sure that can happen. It has been many years that Native Americans have been working on this issue. People on this board are right. Why NOW is it important to start working on relationships with tribes? I do think the motives would be questionable. I always hear how UND's name was changed to honor the Sioux people. There is no documentation of that at the time the name was changed. There are other reasons however. I think that reasoning comes from the line you hear at the Hockey games. Mostly because I cant get anyone to explain more about how the 'name' gives honor to Sioux people. I'm not American Indian, but my children are. I think that the community really does believe that they are doing honor to the Sioux people by having this logo. But why wont they *listen* to the Sioux People then? (you know, all those tribes that have asked UND to change the name...) That is MY question that never gets answered.

1. yeah right, In general the media is very pro-name, why would they advertise a protest? 2. please, look at the rest of the pictues. Like i said he picked 2 out of 16 pictures that were the most likely to advance his own agenda. And for the one pic with the three women... out of the 5 people in the picture, 3 are native american. 3. obviously you didnt want a serious answer to the question. All you are going to do is discount any answer I give anyway.

I think Bush answers questions, he just answers them wrong.

Interesting how you picked the two pictures out of 16 that appear to have no natives in them.

VIEWPOINT : How the nickname hurts me personally World without Wompum [url=http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/custom/blogs/sportscolumns/entries/2005/08/16/no_offense_inte.html]

I guess i havent replied because it is simply too late for compromise. UND has gone too far ignoring tribes requests and Kupchella's comments in particular. He said he was only aware of a few opponents or something like that, but he formed a committee on the Name issue. Obviously there a little more than a few people concerned. The only options are really 1. continue to ignore the Sioux tribes and keep the name or 2. change the name and work on re-building the relationships with the area tribes.

Im sorry. I know that you all think you are "honoring" Sioux culture by wearing a caricature on your shirts and green wigs at games. I talk to diffferent people nearly every day who tell me how they have been educated about Sioux culture. They tell me the Sioux were warlike and defeated their enemies. But that is as far as it goes. 1. they are talking about the past 2. they dont have anything to add about the present day culture (except maybe that there is an alcohol problem on the reservations). So Yes, I do think that without intentionally doing so, they are "mocking" the very culture they think they honor. I have seen the ralph and NO it is not a shrine to Native American Culture. It IS a shrine to Ralph Englestad and maybe hockey too. I wouldnt call Siouxveniers or Siouxperdogs "shrine-like". The campus itself is no "shrine" to native american culture either. Have you ever been inside AISS? Until sometime this fall, the American Indian Student Services building is an old rickety house. It is home-y inside, but do you call that a shrine? Even when they move into their new building, you should know that the plans were much greater, but for all the honor this state does for Native Americans, they werent able to raise the funds for the building that was needed. Your shrines are dedicated to the same mythology and stereotypes of a noble warrior savage. But when it comes down to it, the real American Indians on this campus are not treated the way you say. In fact you wont even acknowlege that most of them want the name to change.