82SiouxGuy

Don't forget the settlement with the NCAA. That is a legally binding agreement. Trying to break that agreement or not live up to what was agreed to makes the University and the state look bad also. Would you want to do business with someone that has a history of breaking contracts? No one is going to come out of this looking good. But it needs to end as soon as possible to limit the damage as much as possible. And don't fool yourself. It has been all about us for a lot of people the entire time. Before 2005 very few people cared what the Native Americans thought. There was no statement of respect for the tribes. When the policy came out it started to become "Well, if the tribes would tell us they don't want it, I might be willing to get rid of it." After the vote in Spirit Lake it became, "Standing Rock deserves to be heard because we're sure they would vote for us." What about all of the other tribes? Most people can't tell you if someone is Sioux or Chippewa by looking at them. Many of the people that have felt the anger are Chippewa. But no one cares what they think. Or all of the other Sioux tribes that have come out against the name. Remember, all of the other tribes in the region, other than Spirit Lake, have come out against the name. But people are trying to pick and choose who they want to hear from based on the result they want to get. None of this is a good way to make policy. UND has to live with the current situation and the things they can control. Changing the nickname is something they can control to limit the damage.

If the Tribal Council at Spirit Lake would have written a letter to the NCAA in 2005, or 2006, or even the first part of 2007 we could have avoided the whole problem. It just would have taken 1 tribe to come forward at that time and the NCAA would have put UND in the same class as Florida State and Utah. They refused to do it until the referendum was passed in 2009 and they were forced to act. I wish Spirit Lake good luck with their lawsuit, but I am more worried about the student-athletes and the rest of the athletic program at UND right now than the members at Spirit Lake.

Are you trying to claim that you're courageous because you want to keep the nickname? That somehow you are going to be courageous if you stand up to the NCAA? I guess it would be easy to be courageous if you have nothing to lose in the process. The student athletes and the rest of the people involved with the Athletic Department are the ones that are going to be penalized by the sanctions, and the ones that will be hurt if UND loses its place in the Big Sky Conference. You and the rest of the nickname-at-all-costers have no skin in this game. You will be able to wear your Fighting Sioux jerseys anytime you want. You'll be able to yell "Go Sioux" any time. It doesn't matter if the name changes or not. It won't affect what you do. But being on sanctions will definitely hurt the Athletic Department and the University of North Dakota. And that isn't OK with me.

I agree with what SooToo said. Also, there doesn't always seem to be a good understanding of all the FOIA information. Just because you have the information doesn't mean you know how that works within the world of college athletics. For example, UND has signed the contracts to be a full member of the Big Sky is a fact. But it is also a fact that they have not met all of the requirements to reach that status, like becoming full members of NCAA Division I or paying the full entry fee. Therefore UND is not a full, voting member of the Big Sky at this time, unlike what Mr. Black Cloud claims.

Not sure what your point is. As of right now the ban on hosting playoff games is for the NCAA tournament. The WCHA tournament hasn't been affected. They could make a decision at some time in the future to ban UND from hosting playoff games, something similar has happened in other conferences. But up to now there has not been any talk of that for the WCHA.

The MVFC stated for years that they didn't want to add anyone. It had nothing to do with whether they liked UND or not, it was a numbers game. They liked having 9 because it was simple, everyone played everyone else and they still had 3 non-conference games open. Plus, as has been discussed before, adding 2 Summit schools would have given control over to them instead of the MVC schools. They didn't want that to happen. The eastern MVFC schools didn't want to travel to the Dakota's twice every year. They were told that they could still only make 1 trip per year by adding USD, that would have been even more difficult if they added UND also. The MVFC option was explored and it wasn't available to UND. Just because you didn't watch Faison make the phone calls doesn't mean that the effort wasn't put in to put UND in the best position possible.

I agree that UND will probably be in the Big Sky next year. Some of the major players in the conference want UND around. But UND will be on a short leash. Money is important for a conference. But it isn't as important at the lower levels of Division I as the upper levels, mainly because there isn't nearly as much money going through. Image is also important to these conferences. They don't want to look bad and don't want to be associated with schools that will make them look bad. So the chances of UND getting booted out of the Big Sky increase the longer this goes on and if the situation escalates. But this issue can't go away if the law is re-established or if it is put in the Constitution. That's why people are making a much bigger issue of it now. That's why the Big Sky is trying to head off a problem. They want UND, but don't want the problems associated with the nickname. That's why Faison has come out so much stronger this time. That's why O'Keefe has come out. If the nickname doesn't go away, the penalties and the other nickname associated issues will make UND much less desirable as a conference partner.

The name wasn't supposed to be up in the air. The SBoHE had announced months earlier that they were retiring the name. The process was working. The official deadline to get approval at the end of November, and Standing Rock was not going to look at the issue. Everyone thought the issue was done until Carlson stuck his nose in the situation a couple of months later. Did the Big Sky want the pair of UND and USD, probably. By all appearances, everyone thought USD was in on the move to the Big Sky until the South Dakota trustees stepped in. They worked with SDSU and Douple at the Summit to convince the MVFC to take USD. The MVFC wasn't going to take both UND and USD. Getting UND into the Big Sky under all of these circumstances was a great accomplishment. The rest of it sounds like self-inflicted pain. Notre Dame was never a sure thing. They worked it for a long time, but they went east. The Spirit campaign is a great thing, especially to the people that are working on it. $300 million is a large goal for a University the size of UND, and they are well on the way. Sorry it didn't live up to your expectations. Maybe they should have worded things a little differently, but it was very much worth celebrating.

Personally, I take voting very seriously and I make sure I know what the measures mean before I step in the booth. I have had a few times where I hadn't made a decision either way on a measure or an office until I was in the booth. But I always make sure to read through the measures ahead of time so I don't have to figure it out as I go. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't prepare ahead of time. No matter what anyone does, some people won't know all of the details and will vote from their gut based on very few facts. I just hope that enough people will get the message and do the right thing.

I don't feel comfortable about it. But that was approximately the margin the repeal passed with in November.

They both have a right to an opinion. But I would believe that Mr. O'Keefe's opinion is based on better quality information than Mr. Black Cloud's.

You are correct, I was combining some history in my mind. I guess it's a sign of age. It was the Governor and the Board of Administration that fired the President of the ag school and 7 professors in 1937, which caused the school to lose its accreditation. The Governor personally hired the President of UND in 1933 without any input from the BoA. The SBoHE was put in place to have some form of checks and balances and put at least a little buffer between higher education and direct political control. But I still believe that the SB is needed to keep the legislature from trying to take too much control of every detail of higher education.

There was a united front through the court case against the NCAA. And most tried to continue until it became apparent that Standing Rock didn't have time to do anything before the deadline, and had no desire to do anything. At that point it became time to start protecting the University. I'm just concerned that you may be a honey badger with rabies. Did the doctor test you for rabies?

Putting the name of the arena in state law may be a reach considering the state doesn't own it. The Engelstad trust owns the building and will for several years. And a major reason the SBoHE was created was to put another layer between the schools and the legislature. The legislature was trying to micromanage the schools, going as far as trying to fire the President of the ag school and trying to dictate classes. The SBoHE is needed to keep the legislature from trying to control every detail of education.

This isn't about what people "want". It is about what is best for the University of North Dakota. The average person on the prairie doesn't have enough information about what is best, they are just reacting. Those people need to learn all of the facts to be able to make an informed decision.

Plus, the only DII conference in the region is the Northern Sun and they already have 20 members. It's not even a sure thing that UND would be invited to join them.

You keep saying that there is still hope, or still a chance. Still a chance for what? Still hope for what? The NCAA has said that they will not accept the use of the nickname or logo. The sanctions are in place and could be felt as soon as the women's hockey team makes the playoffs. There is no chance of that not happening as long as UND uses the name. Spirit Lake has a lawsuit in place that is going to take several years at a minimum. If it goes to a series of appeals it could take a decade. The UND Athletic Department may not survive that long under sanctions, or more probably it would be a shell of what we now see. The lawsuit will happen with or without UND using the nickname right now. We know that you don't care about the Athletic Department. But what do you really expect to happen, or hope to happen, while the Spirit Lake lawsuit is going on?

Many people believe that the law that was made last spring requiring the use of the Fighting Sioux nickname is unconstitutional. The North Dakota Constitution says that SBoHE is responsible for all aspects of higher education other than the funding. They believe that the legislature making a law about a school nickname oversteps that boundary. The SBoHE is going to decide whether they want to take the question to the court system to decide if the law is legal. The Constitution outranks any law that the legislature makes.

October 1, 2007

Just look at the issue that the NCAA has with the Confederate flag in Mississippi and South Carolina. That has been going on for about 10 years now, both states have their use of the flag in state law. I believe that in the case of South Carolina it would take either 60% or 2/3 majority to change the law. The NCAA has not backed down and have gotten the ACC and the SEC to adopt similar bans for tournaments in those states. THE NCAA WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR POSITION ON THE SANCTIONS. Not even if it goes into the constitution. That is the message that has to get out to people.

Didn't mean to say that you were complaining. There is a lot of that going on and I combined the thought into 1 post. UND already settled the issue with the NCAA, and that settlement included the SBoHE and the state of North Dakota. Part of that settlement included not being able to sue again unless the other side doesn't live up to the terms of the agreement. Neither UND or the state can sue over this issue again. Spirit Lake has a lawsuit in progress. It seems to be the only chance of a lawsuit succeeding, but most lawyers I've talked with think that the chances are very limited. Plus it won't even get started until 2013 at the earliest and will probably take several years. The Athletic Department could sustain a lot of damage during that time period. That lawsuit will go on whether UND continues to use the nickname right now or not. As of right now, none of the things done in the last year related to keeping the nickname have helped the University of North Dakota. They just keep dragging out the process and the pain. The NCAA will not back away from their settlement, they won. Thinking that the NCAA will back away is wishful thinking. Hurting UND won't do anything to the NCAA. As the Gambler once said, "You've got to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them. Know when to walk away, and know when to run."

The NCAA issued a statement after the 2007 settlement saying that UND was not hostile and abusive to Native Americans. But most people use the hostile and abusive moniker for the list of schools under sanction for having a Native American nickname or logo.

Are they the same, no. But to me, and to a lot of people that I talk to, the sum of school and athletic department without sanctions plus being in quality conferences for all sports is better than nickname, school and athletic department under sanctions and not in a conference for most of its sports. It's not even close.

I heard the same concerns. You can probably add volleyball and other sports. Most of the games would have to probably be on the road even if you could schedule games. Most of the home games would be Division II or NAIA schools. Then you have the problem of reaching the minimum number of Division I games needed to remain in Division I.

The members gave the NCAA that control and that authority. They could also take it away, but they won't. Nothing short of the federal court systm could possibly get the NCAA to back away from their position. UND tried that, and got the settlement of 2007. The choices now are simple. Change the name and be a regular member of the NCAA or accept the santions and damage the UND Athletic Department. Do what is best for the school and the Athletic Department, or do something to make a group of people feel good about themselves. All of this complaining about it being wrong or not fair won't change anything.