82SiouxGuy

I don't think that there was ever a chance at Standing Rock. After the settlement people thought there was a chance at Spirit Lake, but realized that Standing Rock was going to be almost impossible. There had been plenty of communication, or efforts behind the scenes at communication with Standing Rock after the settlement. Espegard, Shaft and others have talked about telephone calls and e-mails going unreturned. Attempts to set up meetings that were ignored. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Standing Rock didn't want to communicate with them then, and still isn't communicating with them. And the effort at a time period for the approval was necessary. The settlement said that with 1 vote either tribe could remove their approval. Then the whole damn mess would have started again. That could have happened after the next tribal election. They weren't locked in at 30 years, they just wanted some period of certainty. Moving on it that early may have upset some people at Spirit Lake, but it didn't affect Standing Rock. And I believe that Al Carlson would have made his move anyway. Carlson is trying to take down the SBoHE. He has enough of the legislature following him that the issue would have passed. And there would have been plenty of people that would have made noise about keeping the name. The Summit League was definitely a factor. As we see in the discussion now, a conference is huge for the non-hockey sports. At that point, the Big Sky had resisted all efforts at adding teams in the Central Time Zone. So the Summit seemed like the only possibility. If the chances of getting Standing Rock to move are so small, and getting into a league is very important, there is a lot of incentive to make that move. The SBoHE knew it wasn't going to be popular, but it was a sound business decision. There were plenty of mistakes made by a lot of people throughout this, and going back decades. But there is too much emotion involved right now and not enough rational thought. I get that people are mad or hurt. It just isn't good to make major decisions based on those emotions.

It looks like they voted to have UND follow the nickname law and use uniforms allowable under the law. Then they voted to seek clarification of the constitutionality of the law. As a non-lawyer it looks like they want UND to follow the law for now, but that they are going to challenge the constitutionality.

I don't think it would have changed much. The people that want to keep the nickname-at-all-costs would still have been upset. Standing Rock wasn't going to do anything whether the SBoHE waited any longer or not. Carlson still would have introduced his legislation, because his cause is to get rid of the SBoHE and he doesn't really care about the nickname.

Add to that the fact that both schools have had difficulty bringing opponents to North Dakota. NDSU has probably had to over pay for cupcakes and that doesn't make sense for UND. Having good quality games that will be pretty much guaranteed to make money are hard to turn down. It's almost like having another conference game.

At least a part of it goes back to the "UND quit playing us and wouldn't help us through the transition so we aren't going to do anything to help them" thought process. A little bit anger, a little bit revenge. Throw in a little bit of "We don't want people to think UND is on the same level as NDSU". And a part that likes the "preferred schedule" you outlined above. And add in some difficulty finding a common open date. I'm probably missing some elements, but that covers a lot of the reasons it hasn't happened yet.

It's not rocket science. A lot of other schools do something similar. But if that is so far above what the NDSU athletic department can handle, maybe I should apply whenever Taylor leaves.

How many of those games would happen on a regular basis? UND-NDSU would be every other year or every 4 years. And then you have to base the ticket premium based on projected interest. UND has at least 3 ticket prices for different hockey games. Minnesota is one price, Denver and Wisconsin and maybe someone else is a second price, and then you have the base price for all other games. It's a business decision and it isn't that hard to figure out, especially for only 6 games. After all, why should someone expect to pay the same price for Wagner or Drake as they would for a premium team? I could see 1 or 2 games at a premium price(s) and the rest at basic prices.

The money was probably designated for that project. If the donor did specifically designate the money it can't be diverted to another purpose without their permission.

Season ticket holders may get a break and only pay $10 or $15 extra, but they wouldn't get them at the same price. The same thing happens all over the place. Your season ticket price varies depending on the number of home games that year and any premium games. Just because NDSU hasn't done it before doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen.

I've heard Faison say it on the radio and when speaking to small groups. Not an insider, but he didn't do it in a big public forum. I'm pretty sure that I've heard Kelley say it on the radio also, but not as sure as hearing Faison. And I know that Kelley really liked a UND tie I was wearing at a 2008 homecoming event. It has the geometric logo, the Brien logo and the interlocking ND. He wanted to know if I got it some place locally because he wanted one (I didn't). Plus I've seen both of them wear Fighting Sioux clothing at games. As far as how it has worked out so far, probably about as well as if they had some big public statement. It was a lose-lose situation for both Kelley and Faison.

I have heard both Kelley and Faison talk about how important the nickname and logo have been to UND. I have heard both of them say that they like the nickname and logo. But it would be difficult for them to make a large public statement of support without a lot of people taking it wrong. Look at the reactions to Tim O'Keefe's letter. People are questioning his allegiance to the nickname and logo, and to the University. That's in spite of his and his family's history at the University. No matter what either Kelley or Faison said, people were going to get upset. In a case like that it is often better to say less. Especially when your bosses are in control of the situation.

You are correct about Kelley and Faison. They were hired after the settlement was signed. They had nothing to do with that settlement. The State Board of Higher Education had control of the nickname situation. Kelley works for the SBoHE and Faison works for Kelley, so control of the nickname was above their heads. The SBoHE made all of the decisions on the issue and they set the policy. Kelley and Faison were employees doing their jobs.

Maturi and the Assistant AD at Wisconsin gave that message to Faison last week. Minnesota and Wisconsin are done playing UND after they all leave the WCHA, unless the name changes.

People or groups that have publicly said that it is time to change the nickname: Governor Dalrymple, 2/3 of the North Dakota Legislature, the State Board of Higher Education, President Kelley, AD Faison, Tim O'Keefe from the UND Alumni Association along with a group of past presidents of the organization, several past governors of the state of North Dakota, the University Senate, the University Student Senate, the UND Student Government President, Jim Kleinsasser, and plenty more Doesn't it make sense that these people are trying to do what is best for the University of North Dakota? Doesn't it make sense that these people, most of them actively involved with the school and/or the process, would know more about what is best for the school than tribal members at Spirit Lake, a lawyer in Minot, a blogger in Minot, a talk show host living in Fargo, and others that are part of the nickname-at-all-cost group?

Do you want the excellence, success and tradition to continue? The NCAA sanctions will greatly decrease the chances of continued success for the University of North Dakota. That includes all athletic programs. Giving up the Fighting Sioux nickname will give UND a fighting chance to be a successful Division I athletic program. That's the big picture.

I think his point is that it isn't quite that cut and dried. A majority of the nickname-at-all-costs crowd are probably hockey only fans. But not all of them. I know some people that are interested in all sports, but don't believe that anything bad will happen. And I know some hockey-only fans that do see the problems and believe it is time to change. Even some Bison fans that also like UND hockey realize that it would be best for the University as a whole to make the change. So it isn't as simple as hockey-only versus everyone else.

They can't do that for a lot of reasons. The main one being that no one knows if either one will be around by the time the Spirit Lake lawsuit is done. As has been said, that could take many years. No one can promise what others will do in the future. EDIT: And actually, Faison has said that it could be brought back in the future depending on what else happens.

Yes, that's typical of the nonsense you normally post.

The NCAA told the North Dakota delegation last August that they wouldn't consider any of the various options that North Dakota presented. And the NCAA has refused to compromise their ban on post-season in either South Carolina or Mississippi. UND would have to have something to offer in a negotiation. The NCAA has the settlement agreement, UND has nothing that the NCAA wants. If you have any ideas, I'm sure that people would love to hear them.

If UND uses the name at all, for any sport, the whole school will be on NCAA sanctions. They won't let UND pick and choose for just 1 sport. And as long as UND is on sanctions with the NCAA, the Big Sky Conference is going to have problems with UND. There isn't a middle ground any more. It is all or nothing. The NCAA and the settlement agreement will see to that. The only thing that the NCAA may consider compromising on is how quickly the Ralph removes logos, and that isn't a sure thing since they haven't shown up yet to tour the building (as far as I've heard).

My reading comprehension is pretty good. Your writing, not so much. And we don't hate the Sioux name or Sioux people just because we realize that it's time to change the name. And I can guarantee that not all of us work for UND, probably very few work for UND. No one can know for sure what will happen in the future, but I'm pretty sure that you're hope for the future would turn out very badly for UND. If you want to have some place to push your nickname-at-all-cost agenda without being challenged, this isn't it. As a matter, people are going to keep pushing until the end to see that the right thing is done for UND and the future. Go visit your favorite political blog, they seem to be doing everything they can to push your agenda forward, including printing blatant lies about the situation.

The only "fact" in your first post was that UND would save money if they kept the name forever rather than changing it now and changing it again later. Of course they would lose any money they would earn from being in a Division I conference (that's how all of the NCAA basketball money is distributed). And they would lose a lot of money in ticket sales if they start losing a lot of games like I mentioned before. And since there isn't anything close to a guarantee that Spirit Lake is going to win the lawsuit, they would still have to pay to change everything in the future when the name got changed. You might want to look up the definition of fact.

We are also sure to lose home field for football in the playoffs. That's another sport that is played at UND. It's at least as big a worry as losing home ice for hockey because at the present time the NCAA hockey tournament for men is held at neutral sites. It could potentially affect volleyball and probably some other sports. And since home teams win a much higher percentage of games, matchs, etc., it will probably affect the success of the teams. Sanctions will definitely affect recruiting. They have hurt the South Carolina football team, and they aren't even directly affected by the sanctions, so sanctions will hurt recruiting for most of the sports at UND. If you were an athlete (probably a big if I would assume) and you had a choice between a school that was eligible to host playoff games and one that wasn't, which would you choose? I know that you would choose UND just to prove a point. Most people are going where they have the best chance of winning. Most athletes want to go where they aren't going to be penalized just for showing up. If recruiting suffers, the play on the field, court, rink, etc., will suffer. That means less success and more losses. More losses means less people in the seats. Less people in the seats means less money for the program. And don't try to tell me that people will keep showing up at the Alerus Center or at the Ralph if the teams are losing. The football team had one bad season and a couple of weak schedules, what happened? Attendance went down. The same thing happened in the 90's for the hockey team when there was more than 1 bad year in a row. A lot of sports fans are front runners and will quit buying tickets if the teams aren't successful. Those were just a few of things that weren't correct. And it didn't even consider what may or may not happen with the Big Sky. That could spiral downward very quickly. You want to keep this going until the Spirit Lake lawsuit is done. That is a minimum of 2 years, probably closer to 3-5 years, and could go on for at least a decade with appeals. The Athletic Department would be severely damaged in 3-5 years and could be just about done by the end of the decade. And you want that just so you can continue to cheer for the Fighting Sioux. That's not selfish at all, is it?

What part of that statement wasn't factual? I don't remember exactly when the video tribute to the Sioux people that's narrated by Scott Hennen was first used (that is the statement of respect I'm talking about), but it was early to mid 2000's and definitely after the Ralph opened. So it was close to the time the NCAA issued their policy. It was created because UND realized that they needed to do more. And before 2005, when there were protests, people weren't worried whether the tribes actually approved of the name or not. No one said, "Maybe we should get a vote of the tribe members." People just wanted the protestors to go away. They thought that UND had a perfect right to use the name and no one could take it away from them. Some of them still feel that way. No one, including University officials, made an effort to develop a relationship with the tribes. There are plenty of people that now are aware of the tribes, and who even have an interest in what the tribe members want. That is one of the good things that have come out of the issue. But there is still a group that don't care about the tribes and think that UND should have the right to do whatever they want. And there are some people that say they support the rights of the tribe members only because they think they can get what they want. Don't fool yourself into thinking that everyone trying to keep the Fighting Sioux name really cares about what the tribe members think.