Taz Boy
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Posts posted by Taz Boy
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I haven't seen any of the legal geniuses here describe how UND would get around the NCAA changing its bylaws.
Leave the NCAA and go pro. And, not nancy-pants AHL. N-H-L. Beating the Wild in Grand Forks wouldn't be too tough, given how they usually play in their pre-season games up there. I'd like to see Ovechkin try one of his sick moves against The Oshie, fueled by a hostile and abusive crowd of Fighting Sioux fans in the rapid confines of the REA. Better yet, the return of Toews and the Blackhawks vs. the Sioux. Old logo vs new. And, who wouldn't want to see Finley pounding Pronger into the dasher with the Italian Moon ad on it? When the 'Canes come in, we let them win because, hey, it's Commie.
Go Pro, Sioux!
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Please, dear Lord, not "Cavalry". That, with all due respect, blows.
Just be North Dakota. No nickname (if that is indeed possible given the language in the agreement) and use the University logo with the flame
or just "North Dakota" along a diagonal.
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...But to say that North Dakota quit and got nothing isn't reasonable because it's not true.
My concern is more of the "be careful what you ask for" variety. I see a lot of punitive/restrictive language in the settlement that I wonder is part of the original policy impacting other schools. It's like, "OK, you want clarification on the policy, here it is. Now, violate anything in here and your back on the list." Restrictions on licensing/sale of "Fighting Sioux" and the Brien logo are now clearly in place. Details of the REA acceptable/unacceptable imagery are outlined like no other facility. Mandatory new nickname and logo selection with deadline. The thought that the REA was "saved" from the jackhammers is maddening. I could not have imagined a course of action that would have empowered the NCAA to dictate facilities' construction and decor.
Also consider this statement from 2i: "The NCAA believes, as a general proposition, that the use of Native American names and imagery can create a hostile or abusive environment in collegiate athletics. However, the NCAA did not make any other findings about the environment on UND's campus." (emphasis added)
What does that mean, exactly? What findings were made that are not in the "other" category?
All things considered, good riddance to the meddlings of the NCAA in our naming process. They shouldn't have interfered to start with, and I think the settlement effectively highlights that.
taz
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Let me ask the "battle to the bitter enders" a question: How much money were you willing to contribute to a protracted legal fight? Because it's pretty easy to make such demands when it's on someone else's dime. Were you willing to empty the coffers of your personal fortunes until every possible legal remedy had been exhausted? If not, why not?
Do we know that those who were funding the bulk of the lawsuit didn't put a limit on what they were willing to spend? Do we know whether the expenses were approaching that limit? Because that certainly would make a difference in the state's willingness to cut the best deal it could get.
In my opinion, too much was spent already to get the settlement we are now discussing. I blame the NCAA for that. So, am I glad a settlement was reached that gets the NCAA out of NoDak for a while? You bet. But, I think reasonable people can argue whether or not the terms of the settlement are favorable or unfavorable to UND.
For example, there is no settlement that would have fully satisfied Taz Boy without requiring the NCAA to take out a full page add in every major metro newspaper with the following 48pt text:
"We, the NCAA Executive Committee, were wrong. Wrong to label UND's campus as being hostile and abusive to Native Americans without a shred of evidence. Wrong to lobby members of regional tribes to support similar accusations. Wrong to spend time on nicknames. Wrong to have small animal fetishes. Wrong to allow Minnesota to have a D-I football team. Wrong to be lead by muffinheaded ninnys. Wrong, wrong, WRONG."Not sure what negotiating tactic I would have used to get that one in there. But, what the hey.
I also don't like the detailed itemization of "what can stay, what can go" for the REA. To me, it's none of the NCAA's bidnaz what the hell is in that building. Shall we now have officials from the NCAA scrub ALL major venues in collegiate athletics for even a hint of "images commonly associated with Native American culture"? What if UND wins a regional game in the REA as host, and then hours later is declared imagery "unclean" and therefore ineligible for tournament play because the opposing team's equipment manager stumbled across a North Dakota State Seal hanging in the storage room? Much better for me would be to simply agree to removing the logo from the ice and main arena signage (electronic or otherwise).
The requirement that UND adopts a new nickname and logo, or goes back on "the list", is concerning as well. Sure, the UND community may very likely pick a new name. But, we shouldn't agree that we have to. Is this a requirement of the other schools dropping their nicknames?
The big picture I think for many folks is that the NCAA implemented a policy that is fundamentally wrong, and they did so in a manner that violated their own processes. The law suit which would have proven this allowed them time to go back and dot "i's" and cross "t's" to make it conform. Sure, they spent some money to defend themselves, but other than that, no penalties/reversals/policy changes of significance. The NCAA machine rolls on unscathed. Meanwhile, UND is on the brink of losing their beloved nickname-- with only a 3yr stay of execution.
Certainly, the financial aspects make this settlement a welcome relief. But, the details read more like a white-glove lecture on approved behavior by the NCAA. Hard to take, that's all.
taz
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Some items in the "settlement" that make my stomach churn...
- Myles Brand's signature
- 2a Namesake Exemption can be repealed by NCAA at any time
- 2b A shame that the NCAA has to agree in writing to not meddle in external affairs
- 2d requires UND to adopt a new nickname and logo, not just drop the old. Why?
- 2f is just plain scary. How can you keep NA imagery/culture from getting into any building, in NORTH DAKOTA?!
- 2i is weak. Last paragraph is especially diluted, concealing the "no evidence" fact.
- 2j greatly restricts UND from licensing/selling nickname/logo. No chance for third party T-shirts!
I admit, I'm more disgusted after reading this agreement. Still, it removes the NCAA from the equation for 3 years, and for that we should all be thankful. The issue is now back where it should be, in the hands of the University and the namesake tribes. Either party can axe the name, but both are needed to keep it. I'd like to see a vote from all members of the Sioux Nation, not their leaders spewing off about getting treated nicely at a hockey game.
In any case, let's hope for a quick resolution and move on.
taz
- Myles Brand's signature
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These arguments are more than petty. 3rd grade boys are more civilized and mature than those who spew some of the garbage on these boards about Bison/Sioux. Its a disgrace to the tradition of the athletic programs and the schools themselves the way people either (a) think its funny to act like idiots, or (b) seriously take the whole NDSU/UND rivalry to such a level they honestly have forgotten about their own team because they are too busy bashing the other non-stop. Petty arguments are meant for juvenile children who need Mommy and Daddy to make things better. Not for grown men and women. By saying grown men and women, that includes college aged students.
But, my Mommy and Daddy also think the Bison suck!
taz
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I think the leaked information is incomplete, and therefore an assessment of whether or not the settlement as described is "good" or "bad" is difficult. I'm guessing that a 3-yr cooling off period indicates that the NCAA policy on nicknames remains pretty much unchanged. Therefore, it must be agreed that the policy was enacted without violation to bylaws or procedures-- with perhaps the only concession by the NCAA being the timeline for compliance was too aggressive, financially punitive. I'm sure the "hostile and abusive" language will also be rescinded, replaced by something else that is essentially the same thing.
Oh well, let's wait for the whole package and see what's there.
taz
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That is one sick move!
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Being a graduate of Moo U south of the border, I can tell you that they do. I have pictures.
Eeesh. Any Senators involved in that, perhaps?
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It was nice of you to come back and put some life into the Sioux.
I had the same effect on the 'herd today, I guess. Yeah, so I cheered for them a bit. So what? It's NoDak! Even the Animal Husbandry majors have to have a good time, no?
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Sheesh. I come back liquored up from a post-game after a convincing Bison win over the Goofer and all I read is boo-hoo poopieness on the forum. C'mon guys. It's your Sioux!
taz
edit...
Oh, wait... goals are making folks happy now...
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Global Warming stops Sioux from revenge! If only we had Kyoto!
Nice stick salute BC.
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A non-hockey fan has to tune into this and wonder what in the k-rap is going on. Oooh. It's that stewardess chick again telling me how to use a remote. Nice.
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Muse looking fairly sharp. Need to break the seal here.
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It's 0-0 in the second power outage.
That one made Taz Boy giggle.
If any of you are bored, there's plenty of porn on the web. Really.
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Feed is gone. Power outage?
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Ice looks soupy, slow. Nice Greene story. These guys are funny. Great save by Lammy!
taz digs Sioux hockey
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CR@P!
Wife and I are going tonight, but the game just got a whole lot less interesting. Might have to head on over to the Windy City sometime to watch him play.
taz digs Toews
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Not true. Conference games are always close. The Bison have played SUU 3 times so they know each other. It's a reality of football. This is the first time the Sioux have played SUU.
Huh? I guess this would make sense to someone with a degree in animal husbandry or livestock hygiene.
Despite my disgust for all things Bison, I will of course be cheering them on against the lowly Goofer. It is, after all, a North Dakotan institution. Embarrassing as that may be, we must stick up for our own brethren.
taz
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What better example than this to show why tribal "support" is irrelevant to nickname usage. Wonder what sort of conversations took place during those two days?
In the end, the issue still remains with the NCAA. I think it's pretty much a given the nickname will be dropped at some point in the future. But, the NCAA must lose in court first. Go get 'em, boys.
taz will always be a Sioux fan
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That an 11,000+ seat arena can fill up to near capacity for a collegiate non-conference ice hockey game against an unranked opponent during the holiday break with inclement weather in a population center just under 50,000 is an amazing testament to the Sioux fan base. It is unparalleled in loyalty and support in college hockey. Comparing to other arenas that reside in much larger population centers with significantly higher school enrollments (UM-TC, UW-M) is irrelevant.
Sioux fans and the REA are the real deal, baybay.
taz
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...So while I trudged back to the other side of the arena, Mike Commodore scored UND's first goal and...
This is the only part Taz Boy understood.
Imagine live blogging NCAA sponsored Women's Synchronized Swimming:
Stanford Cardinal Trio takes to the water for their free routine...
Lovely swimwear... colorful patterns...
They are now lined up, and the music is starting... they must have speakers under water, no?
That was kinda cool... I bet from straight above that made a neat picture... maybe a flower or something...
hmmmm... not sure I get... that... move...
[long delay]
8adkeq12874;adsnda w erkiq lqweriq9fluhcn;........................
[long delay]
Sorry... chicks are still treading water... smiling... waving... Now kicking upside down... now splashing...
It's almost done, I think...
Done... nope. Uhm. Yep... Done.
Score: 44.97 for total of 89.64.
Next up, the Aquamaids of Santa Clara...
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Can't say I'm thrilled with the Ducks as Stanley Cup Champions, but they sure did dominate in the playoffs. Looked like men among boys at times.
3 months to go before teams can start thinking about some payback.
taz
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I was thinking about this tonight, did not Alfredsson just do what the Ducks haters accused the ducks of doing?
That is as classless as I have seen in a long time. Just as bad as chopping someone in the head and possibly more dangerous.
Honestly I like this rough and tumble hockey.
Anaheim still owns all the patents on cheap play this series. Absolutely, no question Alfredsson should get suspended for that terrible move. Very disappointing to see that junk. But, the series downward spiral continues. Even though I though last nights game was excellent, with wonderful hits and passing, I maintain the overall NHL product is marred by garbage play. Cherry and Hull talked about bringing back honor with fighting and I agree. Nobody's squaring off to take it out face to face. Rather, players are looking for the cross check, elbow, or some other opportunity to end an opponent's season.
Negotiated Settlement?
in UND Nickname
Posted
To me, that's been a given all along, and so is not at all a concession from the NCAA. They said early in their policy statement that this sanction applied only to post-season NCAA tournament play. If the REA is not elligible for post season NCAA play, then it becomes a recruiting liability.