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And... another conversation has been totally changed to hockey by UND fans when faced with something bad.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.... HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY. Bob, if you think a final four in basketball and hockey are the same you're a moron. Hockey doesn't matter. Sorry. Stop bringing it up, it doesn't help you move D-I, nobody cares if you've won every hockey championship. Theres not even enough teams to form a D-II, and barely enough to make a championship. Basketball and football are about 1000 times more important than hockey, and to mention them in the same breath as hockey is retarded. And yes, I'm sure distinguished alums are always reading this board and its moronic posts daily. And I know they got into the position of having enough money to donate because they make rash decisions based on the ego of UND and Grand Forks. Really, I'm sure some millionare is going to read this, and say "What the he!l did that AFF say? Goddammit, here's 5 million a year". Give me a break. And please, please, please don't talk about hockey again. Seriously, its like beating my head against a wall listening to you about hockey. For the last time, I'm not impressed, I don't care, nobody will ever care outside ND. Nobody even knows the basic rules of the sport below ND.

Yeah, the 80's was getting to be quite awhile ago. The reason you won't be able to get back up to that is because you will be at a new level of competition, where you already are the bottom rung to D-I recruits/ coaches. Add to that other coaches will be telling recruits that UND doesn't care about basketball, that they will be 2nd priority in the winter, when they could be first priority at another school. Or that funds will go to hockey before basketball. Or that UND doesn't care about anything besides football and hockey. I guess thats dillusional to think that other coaches will/can use any advantage they possibly have to beat UND though. If you think other coaches aren't going to be saying this stuff than you're dillusional. If you think its going to be easy to lure legitimate D-I bball talent to grand forks than you're dillusional. And really, congrats on making fun of SDSU and NDSU for not being in the CWS in the near future. Whats next, making fun of Florida State for not having a hockey final four? ASU for never getting the championship round? Thats a pretty stupid comparison, since UND in cold weather climate is trying to compete in a cold weather sport, while SDSU and NDSU in a cold weather climate are trying to compete in a warm weather sport. I know though. HOCKEY HOCKEY HOCKEY HOCKEY. If I say it enough, it might matter! Right? Right? Oh nobody cares, STILL.

Pretty sure SDSU's coaches will be using hockey against you too. But I know, you have a history of basketball success in the last decade to use for recruits too. No recruit is going to be impressed with the ralph when they find out they will play their twice a year. It might as well be rupp arena for SDSU, or if they want to play basketball to be in the ralph they might as well go to NDSU. They'll play in their the same amount either way. LOL.

Wow, just saw that site still hasn't been updated for this year. Great job on using that from the 04-05 season. Pretty relevant I would say.

WOW. Thanks for the great site. I had no idea this existed before!!!! Just a couple questions for you, since I'm sure you're an expert on how these budgets were put together, seeing as how you had the need to mock everyone else. 1. Do those numbers include facility upgrades. 2. Do those numbers include advertising budgets. 3. Do those numbers include tuition waivers. 4. Are those numbers checked in anyway? 5. Do those numbers include facility rental agreements? Seeing as how you posted in that manner, I'm sure you have no problem answering these questions, do you? I mean those should be pretty simple to find the answers to, right. All of the budgets are calculated in exactly the same manner I'm sure. No room for schools to "interpret" their numbers with that system, I'm sure. 100% full proof. FYI... This link for SDSU puts their budget at a little under 8 million, and thats the reported budget from the school itself. Why don't you tell me why their a disparity, since you think you proved some big point with that website. I mean, everyone else is an idiot and has no idea that site existed before you brought it to our attention. So please, tell me if UND included its tuition waivers in that statement? Tell me if SDSU had a deficit because they truly used more money than they gained, or because a big donors donation to balance the rest of the budget wasn't in during the reporting period for that report. Because I don't know about any of this, really, educate me. And thats awsome that USD had a one year increase in their budget from a volante article of over 1.2 million dollars. Wow. Joel Nielson is the best AD on earth. One year and a 25% increase in the budget. Simply incredible. Funny how they cut baseball to save less money then they currently have a surplus for? If only they could have made it that extra year, baseball would have had all the money it needed. Have you heard enough yet? Maybe educate yourself on the idea that even reported numbers can very easily be manipulated to make situations look more favorable for certain institutions. SDSU athletic report

SDSU had a baseball game against the gophers in Sioux Falls. NDSU beat the gophers and badgers in softball. Nationally there isn't too much of a difference in those in my opinion. If you go south, baseball is much more important than hockey is, but their both relatively minor compared to basketball and football in college sports in the country. I don't really see the difference between any of them.

And please don't tell me about the "name recognition". UND has no name recognition below SD, and if they do its for hockey. Hockey doesn't help a basketball school or conference.

Hopefully those big boosters will also take away the need for tuition waivers for the girls hockey team too. Wouldn't want people with so much pride to have to take a state handout, would you? Let them know that they aren't even paying for the girls hockey team yet, maybe that will make them fill the coffers too. I know those boosters are all for "Title IX", and not just football. Oh, and I didn't know you had a hockey team. It would be nice if UND fans would bring up their hockey team a little more often. I mean, I'm pretty sure that not many people are familiar with it, the only time it is brought up is when you are within 50 miles of a UND fan. Seriously STOP TALKING ABOUT HOCKEY. Heres some questions about your hockey team for the future: 1. What does having your primary sport of hockey during the same season as basketball say to a basketball conference? Do you think they will assume you are committed to basketball success, or.... maybe you won't give a !@$! about anything besides hockey and football, and not want to admit you? 2. If it came down to a big conference basketball game in the ralph, against say, NDSU or SDSU, or a hockey game, which would get the ralph? 3. Is any conference you enter going to be expected to schedule around the hockey schedule of UND, as the NCC tried to accomodate hockey schools? 4. How will basketball attendance be if hockey matches are regularly scheduled at the same time? Will conference game have to be earlier or later to accomodate hockey? 5. How will opposing basketball coaches in D-I use the hockey issue against UND when talking to recruits. Will they tell the recruits that its a positive thing for UND. Or maybe they'll tell them "Don't go to UND because nobody gives a !@$! about mens basketball. They only care about hockey. Your precious hockey program is going to be a liability to you for joining a conference. UMKC could care less about beating Wisconsin in hockey, and I would be willing to bet that only about 5% of the current midcon fan base even knows that UND has a good hockey team. They care about mens basketball. UND is going to have a tough time building a decent mens basketball program with a hockey program going at the same time. Sounds like someone I want in my conference!

Seriously Starcity IPcheck. If you want I'll PM you the program to read my IP. All you have to do is say so, and you can read any IP, and immediately determine the location of the computer. I'm not joking about this, its a real thing, easily downloadable. Do you want it? I'll give it to you if you promise to never tell me I'm 89rabbit again. Me and 89rabbit even PMed each other about you thinking that we were the same person, and neither of us were surprised. Even if you don't want to check my IP, I know that the administrator of this site has my IP from whenever I post. Ask him where my IP currently is. Refer him to this post, where: I explicitly give permission for Star2city to view my IP and location I don't know what else you want me to do to prove myself to you, and I think I've done enough that you should stop making accusations until you have some factual information.

My fault, it turns out I'm an a$$, and I apologize. I over-reacted to something that drives me crazy when it is intentionally done.

Oh man, nice shot! Nothing like taking the obvious insult to somebody's comment almost certainly made in jest. God, I've got to go clean my pants out now that was such a good zinger. I hope after you typed that you yelled "zing" too. Because that was a good one. Really, not lacking any form of originality at all.

The SWAC and Ivy League both don't participate in post season play, and likely won't ever want to. The big south is in the same position as the great west in attempting to become eligible. There is a big difference between "deserving" and "getting". Just because the Great West is ranked 2nd, or 1st for that matter, doesn't mean that other conferences are "forced" to give them an autobid. Is that fair? Nope. Is life fair? Nope. Welcome to the realities of transitioning to D-I.

Says who? Do you have some past evidence of that, or are you just running your mouth about something you have no idea about. An at large bid will have to be taken away, and the other conferences will have to willingly give it away for this to occur. I guess if that is "highly likely" to you, than you should be excited.

No, that conference would ELIGIBLE for an autobid that year. They still have to get one from the governing body, which isn't at all a guaruntee.

Just cut athletic positions to balance the budget and now their ready for D-I? This is a ploy by their president to shut the boosters up.

I am far from a Duke fan, but that whole prosecution IMHO was a parody of justice caused by a DA looking for points among a constituency for his re-election. BTW, Duke lacrosse players made very poor behavior judgements even before the rape allegations, but they didn't 'deserve' what happened to them, IMO.

YES! So, if more than two core members leave, the amount needed for USD and UND to join, theres no point in joining because the autobid is gone! So what will UND do for a conference until 2016 or whatever when the midcon can expand? Theres no reason to go to 12, since there was no rush to expand when the conference was at a smaller number than that. If anybody is added, it will be UTPA out of desperation for the autobid, and a way to keep oral roberts in. I don't think many people understand that the chances of admission for any other NCC schools is pretty low for awhile.

How many schools can they lose before they autobid is gone again? I think you might have forgot about that core school requirement you were preaching about a month ago. And when's that next southland/ mo valley expansion coming up? The mo. valley is very stable right now. All of those schools are really in a conference that is as high as they can hope for. And UMKC in the southland? I doubt it.

I still don't understand why coaches would recruit rapists and murders for their teams, no matter how good at athletics they were. I mean, what was Scott Nagy thinking bringing two guys that were obviously going to rape a girl on to campus? He had to know that they weren't going to make eligibility when they got arrested. And that montana state coach? I mean guys that would shoot a drug dealer? Why would you have them on your team no matter how good they were at football? Its just stupid. This stuff used to be understandable when coaches couldn't predict the future, but with the advent of the "future ball", where coaches can see what is going to happen, I can't really understand it. I mean, these coaches could OBVIOUSLY tell that the players were bad apples when they recruited them, the future ball said so, they just choose to ignore it. I sure am glad that I'm a fan of UND, where these types of players won't be recruited when we go D-I! I mean, I'm sure that luring quality players to grandforks ND is going to be a cake walk, with all we have to offer in ND. Starcity, I know you'll take this as me defending SDSU, but whatever. You're subtitle of "character of athletic recruits in question" is stupid in any situation. Each institution has hundreds of athletes, but you managed to group all of them as potential murders and rapists based on the actions of two individuals. Congratulations, thats not idiotic at all. Oh, and I couldn't help but notice that on your list of schools you didn't have anything about Duke? Whats up with that. I can't imagine a school that is considering adding lacrosse wouldn't want to know about the character of those athletic recruits? You need to think hard about the situation, because all lacrosse players are rapists. Do you really want them coming to UND? It still blows my mind when stuff like this makes people happy. People have had their lives ruined or ended, and because of some stupid athletic rivalry, other people get a big smile on their face over it. Thats fantastic. Really. And believe it or not, I'm 100% sure that in the coming years UND will have a situation like this also. There are hundreds of student-athletes coming into your institution every year, a few bad apples will sneak through, I promise you. Thats not a sign of UND or any other school being a bad place, thats a sign of the times. When professional athletes can get away with this stuff with no consequences, and high school athletes aren't held to any responsibility because of our culture, crimes will become more common.

I don't buy the strength in numbers argument at all. If the mid con stays at 10 and loses a couple, guess what? UND/USD/ExNCC will all be right there waiting. Where are they going to go? The Big Sky? Don't think so. The Mo. Valley? Nope. The Big 10? They will be waiting right there. The conference didn't want to expand this last time, until IT HAD to, and that was at 9 I believe. I don't think there is going to be any hurry for the conference to move beyond 10. I need to see a financial reason before I understand why they would. Believe it or not, the oral roberts, IUPUI, IPFW etc will want OOC (made locally or for body bag money) games before they are roped into another trip to the dakotas, unless they have to expand. I also wanted to through out there this question. How will UND show a basketball conference in D-I its commitment to basketball? Hockey really isn't going to be helping you with the midcon, because the conference will assume that hockey will be the main focus in the winter, and not basketball, like it is with all conference members. Does that sound like an attractive member to you from a basketball perspective?

Yeah, I'm aware of the stability issue, but turn that around and think about it. The midcon CAN'T lose, what, two more schools in for awhile here, or the autobid is gone. What does that say about the chances of UND's admission for the next couple of years? If there are enough schools leaving that UND will be a shoe-in, then there is no point in even joining seeing as how there will be no autobid for the conference. But for all of the conspiracy theories coming up here, the only school I can see leaving would be SUU for the big sky, which would help the school monumentally with travel. The mo valley isn't expanding in the near future, until the big east breaks up, which will be awhile despite what some think. Centenary has been turned down twice for the southland, but I think most schools would love to see them go if it didn't endanger the autobid. Likewise the horizon isn't going to be expanding until they need to. If they wanted oakland, now would have been the time to take them. I think the conference is more or less stable for awhile, although not because its members are happy, but because they can't go anywhere else.

Why is 12 better than 10, and if 12 is better than 10, then why isn't the missouri valley looking. The big 10, ACC etc. have more than 10 because of football. But if you look at their basketball schedules they are all messed up, with not every team playing each other twice. If you have 10 teams, you get 18 conference games, plus enough room for the right amount of ooc scheduling (See NCC not wanting teams five years ago). 11 teams is a non-issue. 12 teams gives you 22 games, which doesn't leave much for OOC scheduling, so you would have to start divisions and have a tournament. For the big east, this is an advantage, because of the huge tv ratings you can get. For the mid con, this is a disadvantage, becuase nobody will watch except for the championship game, and some schools will be playing eachother for the third time that season, in conference. Playing schools with a low RPI three times will destroy any chance of at large bids from the conference (Bear with me, I know we're not talking about a power house here). It also limits opportunities for improving the conference RPI by limiting the ooc scheduling. So what would the advantage of 12 be? And no way do both UND and USD get in. IF an expansion happens again, UVSC will get a spot, since they will be eligible in 2010, and will assist with costs for the trip to Utah. UND, USD and other schools will all be competing for a spot with them. (This is of course conditional on the expansion not occuring because S. Utah left the conference. If that happens UVSC will never get a conference affiliation).