AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 what? Brilliant response. I shouldn't have to draw you a picture, but I will. Notice the mascots of college sports teams below. There are two people. There's an animal. There's a person dressed as an animal. Chief Osceola, Florida State Chief Illiniwek, University of Illinois Cam the Ram, Colorado State Ralphie the buffalo, University of Colorado These are mascots, the type traditionally used by college sports teams. Question: What does UND have that's even remotely similar? Answer: Nothing. Sioux-cia wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Sioux-cia wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 make sure you read this SLOW, so you understand... Letters are symbols. Pictures are symbols. The University of North Dakota has a symbol, let's call it a "logo." UND also has a nickname. Logo + Nickname = mascot. And since we've already gone over how a mascot is a symbol for a University that is greater than the sum of its parts (Logo + Nickname), what else do you have to argue about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 make sure you read this SLOW, so you understand... Letters are symbols. Pictures are symbols. The University of North Dakota has a symbol, let's call it a "logo." UND also has a nickname. Logo + Nickname = mascot. And since we've already gone over how a mascot is a symbol for a University that is greater than the sum of its parts (Logo + Nickname), what else do you have to argue about? Now you're back to using your personal definition, which isn't even supported by the dictionary definition you quoted! Perhaps you can explain why, when the NCAA enacted its policy, nicknames, mascots and imagery were specifically identified? If images and mascots are the same thing, why did the NCAA bother to differentiate between them? The answer is obvious to anyone who understands the accepted meanings of the words. Play all the semantics games you want, but you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 .......you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMD Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Here it is! The new SDSU Jackrabbit. He's fluffy but ferocious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Here it is! The new SDSU Jackrabbit. Dye his fur blue, paint his teeth yellow and I think you'll have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Funny. I have a dictionary that says, "a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure." I haven't wavered on my definition. A logo is just an image. Add a nickname to the logo, and you get a mascot, which is a symbol. The mascot represents, in this case, the entire student body (whether they like it or not), the state of North Dakota, its alumni, sentimental feelings about the ol' college days and a sense of unity, especially when packed in an 11,000 seat arena with others just like you. Images and mascots are not the same thing. What good is an image if it's not tied to anything. The mascot is a symbol for much more than just an image stitched on a sweater. Mascot symbol mascot symbol mascot symbol mascot symbol. It's written in your dictionary definition. I take it you're an ardent follower of the NCAA? Whatever they say, goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 make sure you read this SLOW, so you understand... Letters are symbols. Pictures are symbols. The University of North Dakota has a symbol, let's call it a "logo." UND also has a nickname. Logo + Nickname = mascot. And since we've already gone over how a mascot is a symbol for a University that is greater than the sum of its parts (Logo + Nickname), what else do you have to argue about? Accounting Stu is bad at math. Where on earth did you come up with your formula that Logo + Nickname = mascot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I learned my math at UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 A logo is just an image. Yes. Add a nickname to the logo, and you get a mascot, which is a symbol. No. Wrong. Not even close. The dictionary definition you quoted is actually more restrictive than the one I quoted. The one you quoted says a mascot is person or animal used as a symbolic figure. UND uses no person or animal as a symbolic figure. Nor does it use an object as a symbolic figure, as specified in the definition I quoted. This isn't hard to understand. Just look at the pictures I posted above. They're perfect examples of what normal people consider mascots when the word is used in the context of a college sports team. If you can show me something -- anything -- UND has or does that comes anywhere near what's shown in those pictures, then you can say that UND has a mascot. Until then, your statement is misleading at best and dishonest at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Let's put your theory to the test with a few NFL teams. Do the New York Jets have a 747 on the sidelines at their football games? Do the New Orleans Saints have someone dressed as a saint on the sidelines? Remember the Chicago Fire from the WFL? Was there a bonfire somwhere on display during home games? Sure sometime teams do have a mascot to go along with their team name, but "Logo + Nickname = mascot" does not hold water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I learned my math at UND. What about the part where you dropped it and took it from the base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Logo Plus Nickname equals Mascot. Without the nickname, it's just a picture of a tiger. macot = symbol. keep laughing at your own jokes, stromer. makes you look real cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Logo Plus Nickname equals... ...your personal definition which isn't even supported by the dictionary definition you quoted. And that's the last time I'm going to say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 keep laughing at your own jokes, stromer. makes you look real cool. Kinda like making a mockery of our logo cool? If it is cool nowdays to make fun of our university, then I gues I want no part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Logo Plus Nickname equals Mascot. Without the nickname, it's just a picture of a tiger. macot = symbol. keep laughing at your own jokes, stromer. makes you look real cool. You can twist it around and put it in a any type of bocus 'formula' you want but when all is said and done, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!! UND does not have a mascot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 ...your personal definition which isn't even supported by the dictionary definition you quoted. And that's the last time I'm going to say it. Are you reading the correct thread? Mascot is a person or animal that symbolizes the institution. What is there not to get? The logo is a picture of a Sioux Warrior, the mascot IS a Sioux Warrior. I am a North Dakota Fighting Sioux. I'm not just a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 I am a North Dakota Fighting Sioux. I'm not just a picture. Who said you were a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 If UND had a mascot, it probably would be a Sioux warrior such as they have at Illinois and Florida State. See PCM's post. But, UND does not have a mascot. Why is this so hard to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountingStu Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Your definition of mascot is skewed. It's that simple. A mascot doesn't have to be a dude in a felt costume with an over-sized head!!! We've gone over this! Like it or not, UND has a mascot. I feel like I'm teaching a kindergarten class, trying to get all the kids to sit in a tidy circle and LISTEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I love some of the things in Wikipedia under mascot: Team merchandise typically bears the team logo and mascot.Gee, listed as two separate and distinct entities ... Often the choice of mascot reflects a desired quality; a common example of this is the fighting spirit, in which a competitive nature is personified by warriors or predatory animals. Mascots may also symbolize a local or regional trait, such as the Dallas Cowboys, which refers to the Texan ranching tradition, or the Nebraska Cornhuskers, whose mascot is Herbie Husker (a man wearing overalls and a cowboy hat with corn husks coming out one pocket). ... Mascots based on Native American tribes are particularly contentious, as many argue that they constitute offensive exploitations of an oppressed culture. However, such debates are not unique to Native American mascots: Alfred University, a school of approximately 2,000 students in Western New York has the Saxon as its mascot, represented as a charging knight in armor, and intended to symbolize strength and courage. Others protest that the Saxon represents male chauvinism. Where's the NCAA regarding a "Saxon" moniker? Oh, yeah, same place as "Irish" and "Vandal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Back to the basics kids: If "Fighting Sioux" is "hostile and abusive" to American Indians, remove the name and replace it with the name of the greatest enemy of the Sioux. Thus by the protesters' own logic you'll be "hostile and abusive" to that group: a double win -- "protecting" the Sioux; "abusing" their enemy. Go Cavalry. Who's signing up to be the first "William T. Sherman" mascot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Your definition of mascot is skewed. You're the one attempting to substitute your own skewed definition. The dictionary definition of a mascot that you quoted and the one I quoted are easily understandable. I feel like I'm teaching a kindergarten class, trying to get all the kids to sit in a tidy circle and LISTEN! Unfortunately, even kindergartners can understand that your teachings are nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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