A Commanche Indian's perspective

[Sioux-cia]

http://issues-views.com/index.php?print=1&article=1099

Back in the 1930s, the warrior spirit was still strong in Indians and white men alike. At that time, the Oceti Sakowin Hunkpapa Sioux elders of Standing Rock honored the University of North Dakota by giving them permission to use the name "Fighting Sioux" for their sports teams.

At that time, many old people, both whites and Indians, still remembered the last wars. Wounded Knee was more recent for them than World War II is for us. Yet they saluted each other, warrior to warrior. Because one fighting people understands another.

Today, the leftists tell us that the "Fighting Sioux" name is an insult to Indians, and we must demand that the university change it. I guess that goes for the Apache and Comanche helicopters too. I

[mako]

So what

[Sioux-cia]

So what

[Ranger]

So what

[mako]

Quite obvious what the point was. Also obvious you don't or can't appreciate an alternate opinion. Hope that works for you. By the way, please enlighten the board on your undergraduate and graduate degrees/fields and the war(s) that you have fought in that qualify you to speak on the matter.

[Air Force One]

Obvious? You

[Ranger]

[redwing77]

AF1-

Good points, but it doesn't matter. When people lose an argument, or feel they are losing an argument their last ditch effort is to try to discredit the poster. Ranger should take mako's post as a compliment because it should be obvious that, by mako's attack of Ranger, that Ranger is winning the argument. This isn't just common to this argument, it happens all the time in Washington DC. The Liberals are always calling the Conservatives names. Whether you believe one side or the other doesn't matter, really. Once name calling starts the argument is over and the one(s) who stuck to the issue at hand "wins."

Name calling is always a nice way to end an argument. It's basically a "white flag" technique.

Since I like using the children development model, here's a further example:

Boy 1: "That wasn't fair! You took 5 steps instead of 4!"

Boy 2: "No I didn't!"

B1: "Yes you did!"

B2: "No I didn't!"

B1: "Yes you did! Look!" B1 counts out the steps and shows B2 he is wrong.

B2: "Nuh uh you poopyhead!"

Argument over. B1 wins. Sure, Boy 1's steps could have been smaller than boy 2's steps. A wide range of variables could exist where B2 could have been less incorrect. But... he called Boy 1 a poopyhead. It was the admission of defeat.

[iramurphy]

Quite obvious what the point was. Also obvious you don't or can't appreciate an alternate opinion. Hope that works for you. By the way, please enlighten the board on your undergraduate and graduate degrees/fields and the war(s) that you have fought in that qualify you to speak on the matter.

Obvious? You

[fightonsioux]

"We were massacred and persecuted for over 500 years. Just because you ignore it doesn

[Sioux-cia]

The author of this article and the young Indian hockey players featured in another thread have made points ignored by Mako, KTF and GK. They have moved on. They acknowledge the past but by living their lifes as they have show that there is more to life than wallowing in the past, living on the reservation and refusing to move forward.

Let go, let live, move on, and most importantly, move up. An athletic team's logo and nickname don't prevent any American Indian from "being all you can be". Self pity and apathy most certainly do.

[mako]

The author of this article and the young Indian hockey players featured in another thread have made points ignored by Mako, KTF and GK. They have moved on. They acknowledge the past but by living their lifes as they have show that there is more to life than wallowing in the past, living on the reservation and refusing to move forward.

Let go, let live, move on, and most importantly, move up. An athletic team's logo and nickname don't prevent any American Indian from "being all you can be". Self pity and apathy most certainly do.

Every tribe in North Dakota has made a point by adopting a resolution calling for a name change at UND. Our resolution is being ignored. Too bad you associate

[LeftyZL]

Who's ignoring the resolution?? UND? IF it was that clear cut, then how come the Standing Rock Reservation(I believe thats the one) won't respond to the NCAA's request for clarification on their resolution they made 5 years ago, which gave UND permission to use the name with certain conditions? If they are so ademately opposed as you make it seem, this should have been a done deal over 3 months ago if you ask me. The logo should have been changed along with the name, but as you can see, it hasn't been changed yet. That's why it's not so clear cut as you make it seem to be on here.

[Sioux-cia]

Every tribe in North Dakota has made a point by adopting a resolution calling for a name change at UND. Our resolution is being ignored. Too bad you associate

[Air Force One]

I'm still waiting on that list of "the last vestiges or racism toward my people" and the documented instances of racism toward Native American people at UND.

Have they opened any "Indian Only" coffee shops, has Barnes and Noble said only non-native Americans can buy their textbooks for spring semester there? Any special "Native American Only" parking spaces? Do the Native American students that ride the campus shuttle have to sit in the back? Has the city council re-zoned a portion of the city not to allow Native American students to rent or have more then 3 non-related persons live with them? I mean, how hard can this list be, these things are so obvious, so well publicized, so blatant in their intent that they should be on the front page of the Heraldo or the Dakota Student daily and weekly. You must be able to drive down University at any time and see Native American students being pushed into snow banks and having their textbooks knocked from their hands. I mean, as heinous as it was, look how much coverage and how fast the recent Synagogue vandalism got and how fast it was declared a hate crime and yet all of the injustices claimed my the name changers get absolutely no press. Is the liberal press here missing out on an opportunity to bash the state of federal government here? Call Fox New, those hick North Dakotans have figured out a way to practice racism and cover it up!

[mako]

I'm still waiting on that list of "the last vestiges or racism toward my people" and the documented instances of racism toward Native American people at UND.

Have they opened any "Indian Only" coffee shops, has Barnes and Noble said only non-native Americans can buy their textbooks for spring semester there? Any special "Native American Only" parking spaces? Do the Native American students that ride the campus shuttle have to sit in the back? Has the city council re-zoned a portion of the city not to allow Native American students to rent or have more then 3 non-related persons live with them? I mean, how hard can this list be, these things are so obvious, so well publicized, so blatant in their intent that they should be on the front page of the Heraldo or the Dakota Student daily and weekly. You must be able to drive down University at any time and see Native American students being pushed into snow banks and having their textbooks knocked from their hands. I mean, as heinous as it was, look how much coverage and how fast the recent Synagogue vandalism got and how fast it was declared a hate crime and yet all of the injustices claimed my the name changers get absolutely no press. Is the liberal press here missing out on an opportunity to bash the state of federal government here? Call Fox New, those hick North Dakotans have figured out a way to practice racism and cover it up!

Easy on the java- I

[Air Force One]

Easy on the java- I

[Sioux-cia]

Have you ever read the Lakota Journal, Native American Times, Indian country today, News from Indian Country, First Nations News, or any Native Newspaper? I wouldn

[mako]

Fascinating the way you rocket off on a tangent-alternate to reality. I just stated the tee shirt was on the front page of a newspaper-and watch Johnny rocket go. My point is that it was newsworthy, to my people. It was front page on the December 12th issue of News from Indian Country. WWW.IndianCountryNews.com. It pictured a caption of the tee shirt and a few lines underneath that stating E-BAY removed the shirt because of complaints and that it was not university sanctioned. Guessing what races bid on the shirts or why it was removed wouldn

[LeftyZL]

Correct me if I am wrong, And I may be, but I thought the resolution that was passed by the ND Tribal Council was only a few(5 or less) representatives from each of the 5 tribes located in the North Dakota area. The resolution that states that we do have permission, given certain conditions, was given by the Standing Rock Reservation in 2000.

If all of the above information is correct, that would be like having a few representatives from each state vote to elect the president of the U.S. Even though the rest of the state may not agree with the votes of the representatives, it doesn't matter apparently. That's what seems to have happend when the ND Tribal Council passed a resolution, not taking into account every Native American on each reservation in this state. Just because a council comprised of approximately 15-25 members passed a resolution stating that THOUSANDS of people disapproved of the use of the logo doesn't make it right or very valid.

If it is so clear cut and blatant, I again ask why doesn't the Standing Rock Reservation come out and voice their opposition to the NCAA about the of the Fighting Sioux logo? That would be the easiest way to solve this problem, but the reservation has decided not to respond to the requests made by the NCAA to contact them and figure this out.

Feel free to correct any part of my rant.

[Sioux-cia]

mako, no matter how you twist the facts, they stand

YOU offered up the t-shirt when asked for proof that there was rampant racism in GF/UND, fact.

There were only three bidders, total, for those two t-shirts that were up for sale on ebay. The seller was not from North Dakota. GK, who claims he is Lakota Sioux, told this board that he would be getting one of these t-shirts. Fact.

Ask ebay why the t-shirt was pulled, they'll tell you it was because of complaints. I can't presume they were all from SS.com members but many were. So while I can't state emphatically that they were pulled solely due to complaints from SS.com members, we were definitely a contributing factor. Fact.

Ranting and raving? Such as calling people names, insulting people's opinions, insulting other races/American Indians who are not Name Changers, people of different cultures, demeaning someones military service, threatening violence, etc. because the Sioux name supporters don't agree with the Name Changers? Now you're the one rocketing off on some tangent reality alternative. The ones who have been ranting and raving have been Name Change proponents, you included. Fact.

The 2000 Spirit Lake resolution not opposing the use of the Sioux name by UND stands as it has not been rescinded. Fact.

Still waiting for those examples of rampant racism in GF/UND.

[PCM]

Correct me if I am wrong, And I may be, but I thought the resolution that was passed by the ND Tribal Council was only a few(5 or less) representatives from each of the 5 tribes located in the North Dakota area. The resolution that states that we do have permission, given certain conditions, was given by the Standing Rock Reservation in 2000.

Lefty, I think you're confusing the Standing Rock tribe with the Spirit Lake tribe. The Standing Rock Tribal Council has passed a resolution against UND's use of the Sioux nickname and logo. The Spirit Lake Tribal Council has not. The last official resolution on the issue passed by the Spirit Lake Tribal Council was not to oppose UND.