A Team Named Sioux

[SDSUFAN]

Riverman

If you want to use my first name, spell it RIGHT. Its CLAIR AND NOT CLAIRE.

My only comment is the skin is thin in Grand Forks.

[Taz Boy]

Things I have learned from SDSUFAN's posts:

1) SDSUFAN subscribed to, or otherwise had access to, the Grand Forks Herald throughout 2001. This was SDSUFAN's sole source of information on the Fighting Sioux nickname controversy.

2) Most, if not all, Native Americans polled for the SI article were drunks.

3) Hat tricks can be awarded to participants of an internet discussion forum.

4) Very little intellectual capacity is needed to obtain an ISP account, navigate the web with browser software, and type.

taz

[PCM]

It did not take me long to figure out PCM real name either.

Congratulations, Sherlock. Those who are active on this board know who I am. I've never made any effort to hide it. I'm guessing that anyone who's spent 20 minutes or so around here could figure it out. What did it take you? Two, three months?

I'm really flattered that you took the time to look me up in your SDSU alumni directory. The only reason I know who you are is because of the venom-filled e-mail you sent me. The truth is, I didn't care enough about who you were to waste my time looking it up.

PCM you seem to have forgotten where you came from.

You mean the stork didn't bring me!?

Look, Clair, given the fact that I spent Christmas and Thanksgiving in Brookings with members of my immediate family, it's a bit difficult for me to forget where I came from. My brother and sister are both SDSU grads, so they often remind me that I am, too. They and my parents live in South Dakota. That tends to help me remember where I came from.

I can tell you that where I come from, people are allowed to have honest differences of opinion without restorting to childish insults, name calling and race baiting. Where I come from, you don't stereotype and slap disrespectul labels on people you don't even know. Where I come from, you learn to educate yourself about a topic before lecturing others about it. Where I come from, it's considered rude and crass to crash someone else's party, engage in boorish behavior and overstay your welcome.

Obviously, where you come from, the exact opposite applies.

Notice President Saigo says publicly, but what would he say privately?

If Saigo doesn't have the courage to publicly state and defend his opinion on the Sports Illustrated poll, then whatever his private opinion might be is absolutely meaningless. All his statement tells me is that he either knows he's wrong or is too big a coward to publicly debate the poll's results. It's probably a combination of both.

While 80 percent may have told the pollster they were not offended, they may have done so to any one who would buy them a drink.

Un-friggin'-believable. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a bleeding heart liberal like you assumes that the Peter Harris Research Group conducts polls in the same manner that Democrat Tim Johnson used to win his election in South Dakota.

It seems to bother PCM more, and maybe its a conscience thing.

No, Clair, it's the lying thing. You see, Clair, you know nothing about me. You know nothing about how I grew up or who my friends were. You know nothing about how I conduct my personal and professional lives. You know nothing about how I treat people. Other than this one silly little issue, you know almost nothing about me.

And yet, you call me and everyone else who disagrees with you on this issue a racist -- repeatedly. Then, being the pathetic person that you are, you whine about being wounded by "personal attacks" while claiming that everyone you label a racist has thin skin.

You have to be one of the most classless, clueless, shameless, hypocritical people ever to graduate from SDSU.

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

Gee thanks for your comments. This conversation is pointless and I regret that you have such a thin skin. What else can I say? I dont have the time to reply to all your trash. And should I know all the people who work on the UND campus? Why would I really give a Damn? I did not feel any need to reach for the Alumni directory until you started to cut me up in pieces? This thing is not one way? What right do you have to attack me? I dont want to waste my time coming here and read about a bunch chest pounding, macho, beer sloshing hockey fans who want to deny their racism in proclaiming the God given right to be racist in using the unauthorized Sioux Label.

[SDSUFAN]

PAT;

"You have to be one of the most classless, clueless, shameless, hypocritical people ever to graduate from SDSU."

You meant person and not people did you not? A person would think with a nearly a full career in communication that you would not make those kind of mistakes.

Obviously, you are not perfect as you want others to think.

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

One Harris poll by itself can not be conclusive. To compare that with Johnson's Senate race where countless polls were made at various time points is like you have said before comparing apples and oranges.

I really dont know what all Native Americans are thinking, but if suffienct tribes and individuals petition the university to stop using their name as a logo, why fight it? That what this issue is all about.

Yes, I know little about you except that you said you grew up in the Pierre area. West river and central South Dakota due to their location and interaction to the Indian Reservations do not have the most positive preception of Native Americans.

People from that area are not as honest as you like us to believe. Many I have met would often make the comment" The Indians are drunks, or they are undependable or the only good one is a dead one." This kind of comment and thinking has filtered and believed all over the state so there is plently of blame to go around for everyone. Wild Bill Janklow, as the Native Americans call him, reversed all the reconciliation efforts of the Late Gov Mickelson. So South Dakota attitude towards Native Americans leaves a lot to be desired.

My final point is the entire upper midwest had a racist attitude and outlook towards Native Americans. UND could do their part by eliminating the logo. This discontinued use would not solve the entire problem of negative perception of Native Americans, but it would be one of many positive things that need to happen.

Although I dont care for the Argus Leader, I do think they have done a better job recently covering issues on the Reservation than they did in the past.

One of the things going on at SDSU is that they are working with Native American community colleges in developing courses and curriculum. The other thing that I am aware of that has just started is a working relationship with the Indian boarding school at Flandreau. Those attending this school come from a seven state area and not exclusively Lakota. The junior and senior classes are brought to campus and shown all the opportunitites in edcation. I dont know how successful this effort has been but its something that never was done before. Its a try to end racism and build self-esteem among high school students.

[PCM]

Okay, have it your way.

You have to be one of the most classless, clueless, shameless, hypocritical person ever to graduate from SDSU.

Yeah, that's so much better.

Sorry that being one of many people threw you for a loop.

[choyt3]

<snip>

My final point <snip>

If only we could be so lucky...

[Goon]

PCM:

One Harris poll by itself can not be conclusive. To compare that with Johnson's Senate race where countless polls were made at various time points is like you have said before comparing apples and oranges.

Oh, I know that senate race, the one where voter fraud ran rampid...

[Goon]

My final point is the entire upper midwest had a racist attitude and outlook towards Native Americans. UND could do their part by eliminating the logo.

Whew, I am glad this is your final point. And no the UND FIGHTING SIOIUX LOGO is going no where, except maybe to the Final Five and the Frozen Four...

[mksioux]

I dont want to waste my time coming here and read about a bunch chest pounding, macho, beer sloshing hockey fans who want to deny their racism in proclaiming the God given right to be racist in using the unauthorized Sioux Label.

Really? Hmmm, it seems like you've been spending quite a bit of time in here with us chest pounders and beer sloshers. Oh, and thanks for calling me a racist again.

As long as you believe that all people who want to retain the Sioux nickname are racists, we can agree that this debate is meaningless.

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

You said: "Sorry that being one of many people threw you for a loop."

Your perception of me is the worst and thats fine, but why hide with a plural noun? I wasnt thrown for a loop, your intentions are very clear, but your usage certainly was a question in my mind.

YOUR TURN WORDSMITH.

[choyt3]

PCM:

You said: "Sorry that being one of many people threw you for a loop."

Your perception of me is the worst and thats fine, but why hide with a plural noun? I wasnt thrown for a loop, your intentions are very clear, but your usage certainly was a question in my mind.

YOUR TURN WORDSMITH.

Dude,

Pat said "You have to be one of the most classless, clueless, shameless, hypocritical people ever to graduate from SDSU."

The key here is 'one of'. Had he omitted 'one of' (which would have been entirely feasible), then the correct word would be 'person'.

I knew your "final point" rant was too much to hope for. Why would anyone reading your posts, though, expect you to actually be truthful in one of them? As others have said continuously, as long as you feel the need to call Sioux fans 'racists', you will get no respect on this forum.

[PCM]

One Harris poll by itself can not be conclusive.

Fine. Hire another respected, independent polling firm to conduct another poll. The results might be a little different, but I

[elmduf]

Growing up in Rapid City SD, in good old North Rapid, I can honestly say that I learned several nasty native words that were used against the local tribal members that lived in that town. And what a nasty town it was. Luckily, our family moved to Wahpeton, ND and got away from that awful, racist place. IMHO South Dakota is one screwed up state. Seems that Rapid City is now one big video casino with a pawn shop around every corner. The Natives that live there to be near the Black Hills are treated like S*&t. As bad as things can be on the reservations in North Dakota...South Dakotans should hang their heads in shame over the way things are in their own state.

I can see why South Dakotans have a very messed up image of the Sioux nickname. Never, in my years in Grand Forks, did I hear anything said negatively about the Sioux nickname from UND folks.

No tomahawk chops or any of the other stupid things that go on at Illinois or FSU. My Native friends both on campus AND in my fraternity were PROUD to wear the Sioux logo.

I am proud that UND has a strong Native American Studies program. And I do believe the Sports Illustrated poll. I think it's time for UND Alumni to just tell these idiots to back off, believe the polls and take care of their own business. Go to Martin and the Pine Ridge Reservation and give them a hand. Don't waste your worries or your time over the nickname issue. There are bigger fish to fry.

[PCM]

Give me a break, elmduf. I'm sure anyone who has grown up in either North Dakota or South Dakota has "learned several nasty native words." Knowing them and using them are two different things. The fact that some racist people use the words doesn't mean that Rapid City is any more racist than the existence of offensive Sioux-Bison T-shirts means that all Grand Forks is racist.

I spent some time in Rapid City over the summer because my sister has lived there most of her adult life. Your description of the town is nowhere near accurate. Deadwood, on the other hand...

While I agree that conditions on South Dakota's reservations are generally worse than on North Dakota's, since when did the reservations in South Dakota become the responsibility of state government? They aren

[Riverman]

Riverman

If you want to use my first name, spell it RIGHT. Its CLAIR AND NOT CLAIRE.

My only comment is the skin is thin in Grand Forks.

Talk about a thin skin. Did you really need to yell?

And wasn't Wordsworth in the movie Clue?

S'cuse me why I go slosh down a beer and watch a little hockey.

Now where is that smilie hic-up icon?

[elmduf]

PCM,

Although we probably won't agree Rapid City, (I still don't like that place!) my point is that there are big problems on the reservations. South Dakota's reservations are in worse shape than those of North Dakota. (Which are by no means any type of paradise.)

Racism exists toward Native Americans. That's a problem in both states. I saw an exaggerated view growing up on Silver Street in North Rapid. I don't know where your sister lives, but growing up near Lakota homes was quite an experience.

My point is, it's insane to think that the nickname is a real issue on the reservations. I can't believe these so-called leaders waste their time and effort. It's obvious from looking at the "protests" and seeing the polls that they have no base of support for this issue.

PCM, Is it true that Means is running for a tribal council leadership post?

[choyt3]

PCM, Is it true that Means is running for a tribal council leadership post?

Though I'm not PCM, I'll answer. Yes he did run, for the tribal chairman position of the Oglala Sioux tribe on the Pine Ridge reservation. He lost the election.

Source link

[UND Fan]

PCM -- Regarding your post of 12:35 PM yesterday -- Well said!!

[elmduf]

Clayton,

Thanks for the info through that link. I saw this in the Denver Post about our friend Mr. Means. Apparantly, Gov. Janklow gave him a pardon for his felony

Denver Post on Russell Means Pardon

[Riverman]

Clayton,

Thanks for the info through that link. I saw this in the Denver Post about our friend Mr. Means. Apparantly, Gov. Janklow gave him a pardon for his felony

Denver Post on Russell Means Pardon

sdsufan must be very happy with this news.

Pay back for the Republican votes?How sad.

[elmduf]

It looked a little wierd to me. Means seems to play politics for attention to keep the spotlight on himself. I can't see how he would think that these actions would help him get any type of coalition to put him in office? I'm thankful that the people of Pine Ridge, while probably supporting him on his problems with the conviction in "74", were inclined to not want him in a leadership role on the council.

Anyway, I doubt that Grand Forks has seen the last of him and his buddy from the Univeristy of Colorado.