SUNDAY SIOUX FALLS ARGUS LEADER

[SDSUFAN]

There is an eight page article explaining the two different directions that SDSU and USD are going. USD is going to become the Ivy League of the Plains, and maybe the Outhouse of the Plains too.

http://www.argusleader.com/news/Sundayfeature.shtml

[Riverman]

Insert NDSU and UND here and you have the same topic.

The new REA was given because he loved hockey and that UND gave him the EDUCATION to get to where he was.An Ivy League education if you will.

I have stated IMHO the reason NDSU is doing it. And I can see why SDSU is doing it. No one likes to be the Red headed stepchild.

But one wonders the Fargo Dome released that their bottom line was lower because noone showed for the later part of the season in football.hmm.Brings back the question will they come back to see them maybe lose in D1aa?This isn't a knock.Just something to think about.

I would dare to say they were not season ticket holders.That money would be in the bank right?

[star2city]

From the Argus-Leader article:

With the regents' approval this year, SDSU could submit a letter of intent to the NCAA applying for Division I status by Dec. 1, 2003.

The time-line keeps getting pushed back. Originally, the submittal was to occur this fall, then December, then by August of 2003, and now December of 2003. This timeline ensures SDSU will be in the NCC for the 2004-2005 season, as the NCC would have to be informed of a membership withdrawal by Sept 1, 2003.

There still has been no word on a conference, which SDSU has committed to having in its hand before moving. Forming a new conference will be the only real alternative, so SDSU will really have to be dependent upon other current Div II schools moving up over the next few years. Possibilities to make a conference with other declared Div I schools UNC, NDSU, and UVSU : NW Missouri St., C. Missouri St., Grand Valley St, Ferris St. In the meantime, recruiting will suffer and even forming a new conference is a high risk / low return proposition for a decade.

But Dykhouse said SDSU could play some football and other games in Sioux Falls in the future.

For SDSU or USD, Sioux Falls is the key to making a Div I move successful. But in order to become 'the' team in Sioux Falls, either school would have to partially sell out to Sioux Falls' interests. Moving games to Sioux Falls would detract from the stated goals of enhancing a university environment.

SDSUFAN,

Are the above and previous comments disrespectful of Miller's and your dreams for SDSU? You want us to respect your vision for SDSU, but you equate USD's vision to an 'outhouse'.

Money can fix almost any of the issues that have been brought up about SDSU's athletic future. But there has got to be a continual spring of money, not just the $2.5 mill gift that will be burned up in a year of two of Div I. For a community like Brookings and SDSU alumni to pony up that kind of money annuallly when there are so many pressing needs for economic development, dissent is not unhealthy.

Although it is still premature for UND to move, Grand Forks and UND infrastructure continue to get upgraded. Although Herald readers have already seen this, others probably haven't:

Alerus Center Development

Alerus Entertainment Complex

At some point, Div I in all sports might be additive from a dollar and marketing perspective to UND, Grand Forks, and North Dakota. Until that time and a decent conference affiliation is in hand, a move is premature.

[SDSUFAN]

Star2city

Dont be putting words in my mouth. I have never said anything disrespectful of President Miller. I have no reason too. I do respect her vision, as sketchy as it has been on some occasions. I appreciate her as much as the Late Hilton Briggs, Sherwood Berg and Robert Wagner. Those are President Miller's predcessors.

I guess I need to explain something to youse yungins from Nord Daktoa.

USD and the outhouse reference goes back a long ways and I dont know if in PCM's days at SDSU, the SDSU students used to sing a little jingle to the tune of a serious alma mater song. It

went like this:

Far cross from the plains of Brookings

Stands an old abandoned outhouse

Called the University. (Meaning USD). I may not have the exact words, but it went like that and used to pissed the USD students off.

This jingle kind of died after SDSC became SDSU in 1964. Before that there was clearly STATE AND U. Now its SDSU and USD.

My point is that USD despite having all the professional schools has not had as good track record of adminstrators over several decades and most USD grads will admit that. The enrollements speak for themself. Despite the 4 years of professional schools of law, and medicine and the Business School, USD has lagged behind SDSU in enrollments and thats been going on for a long time.

Abbott might be the exception to the piss poor adminstrators at USD. He wants to build a strong school of medicine and there certainly nothing with that goal as it would benefit the entire state of South Dakota. Its fullfilling a need.

USD is not even close to being a UND and thats a compliment. They have no research center like the one PCM works in.

The other thing there is no town/gown relationship in Vermillion. Grand Forks seems to have much more of that than Vermillion. The town folk in Vermillion could care less about their University.

The USD athletic department only had 100,000 in season ticket revenue last year all sports. Why, because they owe the donors for the new roof and they get freebees and usually on the 50 yard line. Higgins is remembered for catching the winning touchdown against NDSU in the 1970's but other than that he is no Fred Oien. In other words there is little vision in the athletic department as far as I can tell. Again Status Quo Is good just as Guam is Good. Having spent 18 months on that crappy island in the service, Guam is not good and neither is status quo.

No I have no problem with USD and their vision. The problem seems to be that USD has little or no vision other than status quo.

Four of the current Board of Regents have degrees from USD. The Regent Chairman is a USD trained attorney who lives in Aberdeen, named Harvey Jewett. Harvey hails from Flandreau. What is the hometown of Governor WILD BILL JANKLOW. The answer is Flandreau, 27 miles south of Brookings.

Who has the most to lose from SDSU making its move D1? USD and NSU in Aberdeen. So this week will be indeed interesting.

Another thing that Star2City does not understand the significance of 2.5 and 5.5 million talked about in the article. You guys from UND accuse me of being me being clueless. ("") The 2.5 million is endowed money raised from people like myself. I have my own scholarship in my name at SDSU.

What this means is that only the interest from invested endowments is used to fund scholarships. The 2.5 million will be around longer than REA in Grand Forks. Assuming a 5% return on invested endowments, there would be enough income to fund 28 to 35 scholarships every year from the 5.5 million. This funding would be there each year before one ticket is sold and one student activity fee is collected.

There is a rich lady in Chicago, named Mildred Stoker White. She just died and left at least 2.7 million. Only the interest for that will be used. The prinicpal is held in trust forever or until the institution ends women sports as I suspect thats the scholarships that she designated to the gift to be applied to.

The interesting thing about Mildred and Roger White is that they had very little contact with South Dakota after they left. Roger enrolled at SDSU in 1928-1929 and ran track one season. He dropped out of school due to the bad times of the big crash and the depression. They moved to Illionios and somewhere in time started a furniture manufacting that made a ton of dough and the Whites sold firm it at retirement age. Roger died first and Mildred was a widow for many years living in a nice brick home in Winnetka, near the shores of Lake Michigan and Norwestern University. She gave gobs of money to Northwestern and often hardly got a thank you. She always remembered her husbands account of running track at SDSU. It was best experience of his life so she has told people at SDSU. She contacted SDSU and offered to give $100,000 for scholarships. SDSU just fell in love with lady and we treated her very gingerly and have often expressed our gratitude. She then gave $450,000 more for endowed scholarships while she was still living and that is part of the 2.5 million. She appreciated all the attention she got from SDSU. Its not now surprising that she has given at least 2.7 million in her final will. Something tells me it could be more.

When your wealthy die, it takes a lot of time to complete that final 1040 form for the Uncle Sam. I would expect you will not know what other gifts Ralph Englestad had given to UND and not announced for some time. My attorney showed me the final return for his mother who had a good sized portfolio. It was about an inch and half thick. He was only one person and worked day and night for several weeks to complete.

So not all of the money going to the Jackrabbit CLub is used in an operational year. Many have like myself set up a scholarship fund and donate to it monthly or annually.

Its not easy to get on the Foundation Board at SDSU. You have do two things before you are even considered. You have to give at least $50,000 and you have to know others with money who will be generous. So the report in the Argus does not explain fully what is going on in the Foundation. The fact that the movers and shakers showed up last week with genuine promises is good enough for me.

Those that testified would not say what they did without backing it up or knowing they could back it up. Thats where I have confidence and encouragement.

[Riverman]

Dont be putting words in my mouth.

I guess I need to explain something to youse yungins from Nord Daktoa.

The 2.5 million will be around longer than REA in Grand Forks.

Many have like myself set up a scholarship fund and donate to it monthly or annually.

All I see is smack talking. And when talking about the Dakota's N is before S.Maybe in your part of the Dakota's S is before N.?

Really now 2.5 million will be around longer than the New REA?

I will take that bet any day of the week. The REA is a cash cow.The money the Ralph is making, makes our AD smile. Not to mention 10% on all things w/the new Sioux logo ect..(thanks Ralph) Now you have HIS daughter and wife running the show.Quote from Kris McGarry in the GF Herald.:"My father was passionate about this city.He loved the university and hockey program"she said.But it was her last words,"GO FIGHTING SIOUX" that caused the crowd to get on their feet and cheer.IMHO I think Ralph&family are going to make sure UND makes the right moves.And the cow doesn't go dry.

FYI,NO money spent BY UND a PRIVATE DONATED gift which is being turned over to UND in time is what Ralph wanted.

[star2city]

Dont be putting words in my mouth. I have never said anything disrespectful of President Miller. I have no reason too. I do respect her vision, as sketchy as it has been on some occasions.

SDSUFAN:

We seem to have a failure in communication. I was not inferring that you were disrepectful of President Miller, but I was expecting you might assert that I was disrespectful by asking these unanswered questions: Why has SDSU's decision been postponed to Dec of 2003? Why would SDSU need to play some football and other games in Sioux Falls? Wouldn't relocating home games to Sioux Falls detract from Miller's stated goal of creating a Div I environment? In what form are Miller and SDSU working to increase the economic viability of Brookings and South Dakota, other than increasing the student population and expanding the SDSU bureaucracy?

[SDSUFAN]

star2city:

The delays in the dates have to do with review of the studies that were made and opportunity to give the constituents the information about the move. I see no reason to be overly concerned about the delays as I believe SDSU wants to do this right and we will. We wont be status quo like UND and USD. The move will happen its a matter of getting all the small problems resolved like finding a conference. The move will happen. The delays are not a reason to declare failure. In fact I would expect a bigger delay if the Board of Regents disapprove the move later this week. Even if the move is disapproved, its not the end by any means. Yes we will probably be in the NCC through 2005 and could be later. I dont see that as a problem. At least we have plan. At UND you are doing nothing and could that be a sign of being clueless?

What is the President doing to promote economic development besides expanding the bureacracy of SDSU? I am not sure, but the CEO of Daktronics is working on an industrial park concept that will be connected to SDSU. Brookings has gained 2000 manufacturing jobs in the past five years according to the Economic Development paper from the City of Brookings. Brookings was about 6000 when I was growing up and had no more than 2000 students. When I left in 1965 for the military service, the enrollment was maybe 4200 and Brookings had no industry period. In the 1970'S 3M and a few other firms move in and the community has changed since. I believe the article said the current population is 18600 excluding the students so with them its about 28,000 and growing.

Growth has been slow but constant. I think we have a bright future without depending on Canada for development.

As far as Sioux Falls, being 50 miles south and accessable on I-29, its part of the market as defined in the both of the studies. Carr & Associates had made this recommendation about playing games in Sioux Falls and I have not read the marketing report but I would not be surprised if they made the same recommendation. We have no problem selling out to Sioux Falls interests. We need them to make this move work. Some of the movers and shakers on the foundation board live and work in Sioux Falls. SDSU is a land grant college that serves the entire State, and why should we not want to get Sioux Falls as part of the Market. We are not talking Fargo and how Grand Forks preceives Fargo. USD is located in Vermillion and not Sioux Falls. If USD was in Sioux Falls, it might be different. Sioux Falls does not support Augustana worth a damn, despite all they have tried to do. This seems like not a disrespectful question but just a negative question that would support the scheme of failure in your mind.

As far as the Hilarious articles that you cited, I did read them and "great pie in the sky" was my conclusion. The City of Grand Forks has to make all sorts of concessions in the form of taxes and promotion to Canada. Does not sound to great to me. Winnipeg is further from Grand Forks than Brookings is from Sioux Falls. With Winnipeg having its own entertainment spots, why would they want to come to Grand Forks? If they are going to states, why not go big time and go to the Twin Cities. I found out a few years back that happens a great deal as a plane I was on from Chicago to Grand Forks was empty until I picked up my connecting flight from Mpls to GF. All of a sudden a large group of Canucks filled the plane and they all stayed on to make the connection to Winnepeg.

Another thing, you have the Hilarious center, REA and the FargoDome now competing for an AeroSMith Concert and some one is taking it in the shorts to get the concert. Dont you think this situation is a bit risky?

Riverman:

Do you know what an endowment is? I dont think so. The building of REA will look a little different 30 years from now and by then a zillion ice arena's will have been built that out shine your facility. Will the ghost of Ralph be around to refurbish it? I dont think so. The 2.5 million I was referring to was endowed funds of which the prinicpal can not be spent so 30 year from now when the REA is outdated and decaying the 2.5 million at SDSU will still be earning cash for scholarships. Thats what I meant oh clueless riverman.

[Riverman]

sdsu/NDSU fan,

Oh please spare me your bs.So what you are telling me is that The New REA is not banking any $$$ for the REA-III?You are kidding I hope.

And you wonder why people jump on you?Clueless?Did you say?

Yet you take a shot at a city you don't live in?Ok are you and jbb brothers/sisters?

I can see your logic and many did say that about the new REA, yet it stands as a corner stone for UND and Greater Grand Forks.

A 104 million dollar(not paid for by tax payers) building block for the future. Having made it past 1997's flood. Nothing can change my mind that the Greater Grand Forks area and UND are moving in a way that noone could imagine.

Would you like to hear what Moody's had to say about GF?Inspite of

of a national recession?Rating it Aa3 do you know what that means or are you cluless?The only problem Moody's wondered about, The GF debt burden is a little high around 12.3-12.6%.But still manageable.The Al does figure into this.67.6 million in bonds.(however this is insured)

Heck the dike around GF doesn't sway them and that's 35 million!

By the year 2006(3yrs away) The peak dept on all bonds will occur.Lowering the debt burden alot don't you think?Again Clueless?

That means "great pie in the sky dreams" or a part of them can be funded.

As for risky not at all. If the Fargo Dome flops o'well.The Al and Ralph are working together for Grand Forks do you think they give a rip about the Fargo Dome?

Aerosmith is on tour again? I just seen them at the Al!

[JBB]

The hilarious and ralph fill the same niche. They are competing by driving down rents to a point where the hilarious lost money this year. I don

[tony]

A drunin sailor?

[choyt3]

A drunin sailor?

Didn't NDSU educate this guy?

[tony]

I blame it on his hanging out on a UND board. JBB, come back to the light!

[SDSUFAN]

What really makes this board interesting is how the UND fans are constantly looking for distractors. Maybe they should worry about the next flood instead about JBB's spelling.

[jimdahl]

What really makes this board interesting is how the UND fans are constantly looking for distractors.  Maybe they should worry about the next flood instead about JBB's spelling.

Pretty weak attempt at distraction, yourself, SDSU. But sadly for your point, Tony is not a UND fan. He, like JBB, is actually a friendly Bison fan (and even runs a nice web site devoted to it).

Speaking of distractors, what's up with the dig at a community for having been hit by a flood? I hope your community is never ravaged by a natural disaster. Those are the sort of immature digs that destroy your credibility here and prove that your real motivation is just to put down UND.

[choyt3]

Maybe they should worry about the next flood instead about JBB's spelling.

For someone who claims to be a well-educated and a prominent supporter of SDSU athletics, you sure are a tool.

[The Sicatoka]

I find it most amazing that 'tony' pointed it out first, and he's "scream yellow" all the way, yet it's the fault of UND fans.