I'm actually not totally against the name change..

[Brent_Bobyck]

Why not? You obviously don't have a much care for the Sioux nickname. Well, there are many thousands of people who obviously care about it very much. You keep jumping around my question. Why not benefit both? A little compromise by each with a large benefit to both? You seem to only want a clear "winner" while I believe we don't need one. Doesn't seem very smart to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My reply answers your question directly. UND does enough. Why should they have to do more simply to keep the nickname. I care very deeply about the nickname. I would like to see UND keep the name, but if keeping the name means no playoff games, get rid of it. From a financial standpoint and simply a fan's standpoint, it would not be worth it if it meant not hosting playoffs.

To get back to your question, you are stating a hypothetical situation. Why not help both sides instead of determining one winner? That is not the issue that we are trying to determine. That idea should have been thought of before this ruling came about. You have to concentrate on the issue at hand and that is if you do not drop the name, you do not host playoffs. Yes, I know the wording is fuzzy and there will be appeals, lawsuits, etc. But for right now, change your name or no playoffs. With the situation at hand, I would rather see the University of North Dakota "Fill in the Blank" host a playoff game rather than seeing the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux be barred from hosting the playoffs.

Insider, I have said it before and I will say it again. Your ideas are great ideas and I agree with what you are saying. But your ideas are 1.) too late and 2.) not financially smart.

[ESPNInsider]

It's not too late. This can be challenged and the ruling is not clear yet from the NCAA. They have even stated that they will need to look into it more.

Going back to UND does enough. Obviously not. Obviously the Sioux people are not happy with what UND currently does. Why not offer them more and see if that would be better? It is not too late. Look at NC Pembroke, the NCAA is allowing them to keep their name. Why not build our relationship and keep ours?

So you are in favor of just dumping the name because it may save money? I bet you would like us to become the University of North Dakota "Microsofts" too. Or maybe the UND "Pimp my rides" You can't just look at the monetary side of something like this. Sure it is a big part of it, but you can't base your decision solely on it. Besides, you don't think UND has an extra couple of thousand dollars to put on a camp here and there? I'm sure if the they needed to raise some funds in order to keep the name the alumni would pull through. This is a chance for UND and the NCAA to do some real good for these people. Let's give them the option. If they don't want it, then by all means change the name.

[Brent_Bobyck]

It's not too late.  This can be challenged and the ruling is not clear yet from the NCAA.  They have even stated that they will need to look into it more. 

Going back to UND does enough.  Obviously not.  Obviously the Sioux people are not happy with what UND currently does.  Why not offer them more and see if that would be better?  It is not too late.  Look at NC Pembroke, the NCAA is allowing them to keep their name.  Why not build our relationship and keep ours?

So you are in favor of just dumping the name because it may save money?  I bet you would like us to become the University of North Dakota "Microsofts" too.  Or maybe the UND "Pimp my rides"  You can't just look at the monetary side of something like this.  Sure it is a big part of it, but you can't base your decision solely on it.  Besides, you don't think UND has an extra couple of thousand dollars to put on a camp here and there?  I'm sure if the they needed to raise some funds in order to keep the name the alumni would pull through.  This is a chance for UND and the NCAA to do some real good for these people. Let's give them the option.  If they don't want it, then by all means change the name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For an idea like camps, it IS to late. The decision has already been made and UND is on the list of 18. NC Pembroke or whatever is off the list because there student body and faculty are mainly native americans. If we wanted to call ourselves the Fighting Norwegians we could get away with it.

I am not in favor of dumping the name simply because of money. I am in favor of dumping the name if it means no more playoffs, which indirectly means less money. Less money means programs have to take budget cuts. If enough money is lost, programs have to be cut. Are we willing to risk taking cuts to our athletic programs simply to call ourselves the "Fighting Sioux?" Are we willing to provide less to our student athletes to simply print Fighting Sioux on the front of our jersey? I don't think it makes sense.

Let me reiterate, I WOULD like to see the name stay! But I would rather see playoff games more.

[ESPNInsider]

I just think if you hurry up and change it just because the NCAA made this statement it would not be a good thing.

Looking at this year what playoffs would we even miss out on the possibility of hosting? Opening rounds for the national basketball tourney, what else? The NCC tourney could still be here right? The NCC baseball tourney could still be here. That would be a full year of researching and scouting opportunities before we had to make a decision, and UND would lose out on POSSIBLY hosting a few events? How much money would those bring in anyway? Next year would be a different story when you start talking football.

[Diggler]

You seem to be saying that UND should just give up though and change the name. They shouldn't attempt to get an exemption or anything from the NCAA, just give up. The NCAA Executive Commitee made this decision and though they said that exemptions could still be granted, it's hopeless. UND is screwed. You seem to have a complete defeatist attitude.

[ScottM]

Going back to UND does enough.  Obviously not.  Obviously the Sioux people are not happy with what UND currently does.  Why not offer them more and see if that would be better?  It is not too late.  Look at NC Pembroke, the NCAA is allowing them to keep their name.  Why not build our relationship and keep ours?

So you are in favor of just dumping the name because it may save money?  I bet you would like us to become the University of North Dakota "Microsofts" too.  Or maybe the UND "Pimp my rides"  You can't just look at the monetary side of something like this.  Sure it is a big part of it, but you can't base your decision solely on it.  Besides, you don't think UND has an extra couple of thousand dollars to put on a camp here and there?  I'm sure if the they needed to raise some funds in order to keep the name the alumni would pull through.  This is a chance for UND and the NCAA to do some real good for these people. Let's give them the option.  If they don't want it, then by all means change the name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not agree with the premise of effectively bribing a group of people to use the name, especially when the name itself is so widely used in other contexts it probably doesn't "belong" to them anyway. Moreover, I would rather scrap the name and the Indian-specific programs on campus than kow-tow to narrow special interests who seek to extort money or conduct from people/institutions in order to further their own interests. If the NC$$ and certain whiny bedwetters (Indian and non) do not think UND does enough to support American Indians compared to other schools, I see to no reason to attempt to appease them any longer. I would rather UND go "nameless" than be turned into a proverbial ATM for a bunch of unhappy f88ks.

[ESPNInsider]

[Brent_Bobyck]

You seem to be saying that UND should just give up though and change the name.  They shouldn't attempt to get an exemption or anything from the NCAA, just give up.  The NCAA Executive Commitee made this decision and though they said that exemptions could still be granted, it's hopeless.  UND is screwed.  You seem to have a complete defeatist attitude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No they should not give up fighting. I would be at the front of the pack to help save the name. All I am saying is, if it came down to either keeping the name or hosting playoffs.....I choose hosting playoffs. I am not saying don't fight it, I am not saying don't try every possible route possible to save it, in fact just the opposite.

That being said, I would rather have no name then no playoffs.

[ESPNInsider]

[Brent_Bobyck]

[ScottM]

Yeah, and the feds call it "payola". Paying off somebody to use something they do not control (why have they not sued every entity using "Sioux") is nothing short of racketeering.

While not all programs would go into the dustbin, the school, now with no real connections to the American Indian, could have a clear conscience as it "dinged" American Indian applicants and forced to them to go to Dickinson or 'SU, especially when the new entrance standards go into effect.

[ESPNInsider]

I agree with ScottM. UND does ENOUGH. It is not building relationships. It is essentially "here is some money, now shut up."

Why should we have to go the extra mile just because our nickname is native american. Do you think the University of Nebraska Cornhuskers give money to the corn farmers of the state to "build a relationship"?

No, instead the University of Nebraska just sells out to NBC and Tommy Lee to have him on campus. Makes that school look like a joke!

But back to the point, how would having camps and programs be "here's the money, now shut up"? Sure, you think UND does enough, why not do a little more? Why not help some people who could use it, if they want it? I just don't see your point of not offering this as an alternative.

[ESPNInsider]

Yeah, and the feds call it "payola".  Paying off somebody to use something they do not control (why have they not sued every entity using "Sioux") is nothing short of racketeering. 

While not all programs would go into the dustbin, the school, now with no real connections to the American Indian, could have a clear conscience as it "dinged" American Indian applicants and forced to them to go to Dickinson or 'SU, especially when the new entrance standards go into effect.

No real connection to the American Indian? What about the programs that they currently have on campus? You think the nickname of the athletic teams is the only real connection? I see the nickname as the only thing holding back more of a connection. That's why I think we should try get the athletic department and the nickname more involved with programs for Native Americans.

[Brent_Bobyck]

[ESPNInsider]

I am not agreeing with your idea of "going the extra mile" and "build relationships." When I said to try every possible route I do not include your idea because I do not think it is feasible and I think we are past the point to mend the relationship that UND and the Sioux Indians have. If those camps are put into place now it would looked upon as simply a last ditch effort to help keep the name.

I am not retracting any statements. I have said all along, if the decision came down to name or playoffs, I choose playoffs.

That's too bad that you feel that way. I disagree, I think there is plenty we could do to mend the relationship. Dropping the name may be the only way, but why not sheck out other possibilities. To ignore other options would be silly for both sides.

[ScottM]

No real connection to the American Indian?  What about the programs that they currently have on campus?  You think the nickname of the athletic teams is the only real connection?  I see the nickname as the only thing holding back more of a connection.  That's why I think we should try get the athletic department and the nickname more involved with programs for Native Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As has been noted, the name connects the school to the tribes, and to the litany of programs, including the Indian-specific affirmative action programs for the idiots coming on board. Your argument that the school should be more accommodating and "build relationships" reminds me of those who advocated "negotiating" with Bin Laden after 9/11. As I noted before, I would rather UND drop the name entirely rather than bending over any further for certain groups of people who would not be happy, regardless of how much they squeezed the school.

[ESPNInsider]

As has been noted, the name connects the school to the tribes, and to the litany of programs, including the Indian-specific affirmative action programs for the idiots coming on board.  Your argument that the school should be more accommodating and "build relationships" reminds me of those who advocated "negotiating" with Bin Laden after 9/11.  As I noted before, I would rather UND drop the name entirely rather than bending over any further for certain groups of people who would not be happy, regardless of how much they squeezed the school.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...Bin Laden? 9/11? Wow, you obviously have your priorities on a different planet. I'm not talking life and death here.

But, why not help both parties? I agree that if it is going to take millions of dollars then the name will have to go, I just wonder if there is a compromise that can be had that will benefit both parties.

[Brent_Bobyck]

[Siouxman]

Think a little broader than "payola." One of the functions of UND and NDSU is to assit in economic development for the State of North Dakota. The two campuses are much more than just plain vanilla educational institutions. Part of their charge is to assist economic development within the state. Doing a joint licensing effort with the tribes could be just a small part of the total picture for tribes.

Successful people and businesses do the most with what they have available to them. The Sioux may decide that their name is one of their assets, and if that can be leveraged to their benefit without impinging on their heritage or tradition, they should go for it. Sioux manufacturing is a successful tribal asset, and an example of what can be done. Like it or not, native tribes do have some economic and tax advantages in the federal laws to assist them in acquiring contracts in a variety of areas. The problem is usually getting enough momentum, and cash, to get to the point where you are able to achieve things. The licensing aspect could be just the first step, to create the funds necessary to do much grander things. It would be good for UND to be involved with that. The tribes are in ND, and improvements in their economic status would be beneficial to all of ND. I view it in a different light than just payola, and an opportunity for UND, the tribes, and alumni.

[ESPNInsider]

I am not saying native americans are not a worthy cause. I am saying that there are plenty other things UND could spend money on, and need to spend money on, other than MORE native american causes.

For instance....

What should UND be spending money on instead? You say "shelling out even more money", what money are they "shelling out" right now? Are you talking about the programs that UND currently has set up or what?

I don't see why you are so against it. I'm not talking huge dollars here. Obviously there is a point where it wouldn't make sense to go through with it, but why not explore this? I'm not real clear on why you think that UND is doing SO much already and that there is no way they should do any more. Please enlighten me on how much they are doing right now.

[Brent_Bobyck]

For instance....

What should UND be spending money on instead? You say "shelling out even more money", what money are they "shelling out" right now? Are you talking about the programs that UND currently has set up or what?

I don't see why you are so against it. I'm not talking huge dollars here. Obviously there is a point where it wouldn't make sense to go through with it, but why not explore this? I'm not real clear on why you think that UND is doing SO much already and that there is no way they should do any more. Please enlighten me on how much they are doing right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Please enlighten me on how much they are doing right now."

Here is what they are doing. A free education is a HUGE gift if you ask me. If you don't ask me, ask all of the recent graduates that are knee deep in student loan debt.

UND Undergraduate Cultural Diversity Tuition Waiver

2005-2006 Awards

Recognizing the educational benefit of a diverse student population, the University of North Dakota has adopted a tuition waiver program. Special emphasis of this policy is to recruit, assist, and retain enrolled members of federally recognized American Indian tribes and Alaska Natives and Villages, American Indian graduates of tribally-controlled community colleges in North Dakota, all other under-represented groups, and economically disadvantaged students.

Priority consideration will be given to applications received by April 15, 2005. Awards will be based on documentation received as of that date.

ELIGIBILITY

Applicants must:

be a U.S. Citizen or eligible noncitizen;

An eligible noncitizen is one of the following: A U.S. permanent resident with an Alien Registration Receipt Card (I-551);

A conditional permanent resident (I-551C);

Another eligible noncitizen with an Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) from the Department of Homeland Security showing any one of the following designations:

[ESPNInsider]

So please tell me how that is, as you put it "shelling out money" The waivers are given to many, many people. The women's hockey players receive waivers. That in no way is "shelling out money" So that is "more then enough"? Give out a few free waivers and they should not even look at doing more? I just don't get your stance on why UND should not even take a look at what else they could do.

By the way, I also received a waiver when I went to UND and I am Irish, German, Dutch, and Norwiegan.

[Diggler]

I wish I would've received a waiver.

[GrahamKracker]

I wish I would've received a waiver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too, I didn't get a waiver. I wish someone paid for my college to, unfortunately, my mommy and daddy can't pay for my education, so I have to pay for this education myself.

There are more scholarships given to athletes than to natives. And besides, out of all of the tuition waivers out there, less than 1/2 go to natives, more go to "other" minorities and people of need. Know the facts before you whine. Hetche to yelo.

[Diggler]

There are more scholarships given to athletes than to natives.  And besides, out of all of the tuition waivers out there, less than 1/2 go to natives, more go to "other" minorities and people of need.  Know the facts before you whine.  Hetche to yelo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When did I say anything about Native Americans getting the most waivers or even imply it? I didn't. You just assumed that is what I meant. I just said I wish I would have gotten a waiver. Who doesn't wish they could have gone to school without paying or at least having a portion of it paid for?