extremerouge Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 in 2000 brandon askew and josh hunter were finalists I believe i dont think josh hunter was a finalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Just the same, there are a few elementary procedures that can enhance the fairness of awards. The old process of three finalists could create problems based on regional issues (lack of contact for east coaches for some west players and vice versa for west coaches and some east players). Two players from one region can potentially dilute the vote for that region. An even number of players makes more sense. If this new process helps to enhance the fairness of the award, and I think it does, then I am all for it. That logic just doesn't wash here. When there were three finalists, the extra was always from the East and the East still usually got Mr. Hockey. They didn't cancel each other out. If you are right and there are four finalists with three being from the East (which is what will happen), they would dilute the pool even more and Jundt would win. And trust me, Jundt will not win! As for enhancing the fairness of the award, when has it not been fair? The award is to the winner, not the other finalists, so when has the winner been wrong before that a fourth finalist would have changed who won? I'm guessing never. So the "fairness" issue is just about one more player being able to say he was a finalist? Fine, if that's what's important. I don't think that's what should be important, but, your mileage may vary. Personally, I don't like singling a player out in team sports at the HS level, and I know my bias there shows through. I don't think we should have Mr. and Miss anythings. The ones who are truly good enough will become obvious because they will advance to the next levels and continue to excel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND Pride Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 That logic just doesn't wash here. When there were three finalists, the extra was always from the East and the East still usually got Mr. Hockey. They didn't cancel each other out. If you are right and there are four finalists with three being from the East (which is what will happen), they would dilute the pool even more and Jundt would win. And trust me, Jundt will not win! As for enhancing the fairness of the award, when has it not been fair? The award is to the winner, not the other finalists, so when has the winner been wrong before that a fourth finalist would have changed who won? I'm guessing never. So the "fairness" issue is just about one more player being able to say he was a finalist? Fine, if that's what's important. I don't think that's what should be important, but, your mileage may vary. Personally, I don't like singling a player out in team sports at the HS level, and I know my bias there shows through. I don't think we should have Mr. and Miss anythings. The ones who are truly good enough will become obvious because they will advance to the next levels and continue to excel. Perhaps the best response is to focus on your last paragraph which I think is the correct approach. High school sport would be better served if that philosophy was used. To analyze the fairness issue you would need a list of all nominees over the years as well as plenty of performance detail to try and determine if there was a fairness issue. You would also need the voting data by region. This is information that you can never get there is probably little point in discussing it. I think on the girls side last year there might be some debate on the situation. In any case, it is not productive or practical to analyze the past as we do not have enough data to do it. I agree I think the awards have probably gone to the "right" player if that is the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Agreed! Now, can anyone help me with South. I need line combinations and defensive pairs as they usually skate. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Just doing my homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Personally, I don't like singling a player out in team sports at the HS level, and I know my bias there shows through. I don't think we should have Mr. and Miss anythings. The ones who are truly good enough will become obvious because they will advance to the next levels and continue to excel. I don't agree with this. Just because someone is the greatest in HS does not guarantee they will continue to succeed at the next level. I would think most people agree Tom Philion was one of the best HS players to ever play in ND, yet he did not have a great college career, same with Paul Murphy. Then there are the players like Askew and Jeremy Holm who didn't even follow up with hockey to focus on a different sport (golf & baseball). Mr. Hockey is awarded to the best HS player, not who has the greatest potential. Of course people will disagree on who should win the award, but I have never thought the winner was not deserving. I have never seen the kid from the West play so I cannot comment on him, but Galt, Weisgarber the Campbells and Mihulka would all be deserving players in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory1 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Agreed! Now, can anyone help me with South. I need line combinations and defensive pairs as they usually skate. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Just doing my homework. Line 1 Weisgarber Larson Powers D1 Galt Spriggs Line 2 Campbell Ramberg Doeden??? or Mcdougall D2 Wurden Jorgenson Line 3 Doeden or Mcdougall Grallum Grande D3 Normally don't play 3 d sets Line 4 Hooey Gores Fradraeck??? Normally doesnt roll 4 lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory1 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I don't agree with this. Just because someone is the greatest in HS does not guarantee they will continue to succeed at the next level. I would think most people agree Tom Philion was one of the best HS players to ever play in ND, yet he did not have a great college career, same with Paul Murphy. Then there are the players like Askew and Jeremy Holm who didn't even follow up with hockey to focus on a different sport (golf & baseball). Mr. Hockey is awarded to the best HS player, not who has the greatest potential. Of course people will disagree on who should win the award, but I have never thought the winner was not deserving. I have never seen the kid from the West play so I cannot comment on him, but Galt, Weisgarber the Campbells and Mihulka would all be deserving players in my opinion. Erick Galt is also the captain of the many time state champion golf team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Thanks for the lineup, cory1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I don't agree with this. Just because someone is the greatest in HS does not guarantee they will continue to succeed at the next level. I would think most people agree Tom Philion was one of the best HS players to ever play in ND, yet he did not have a great college career, same with Paul Murphy. Then there are the players like Askew and Jeremy Holm who didn't even follow up with hockey to focus on a different sport (golf & baseball). Mr. Hockey is awarded to the best HS player, not who has the greatest potential. Of course people will disagree on who should win the award, but I have never thought the winner was not deserving. I have never seen the kid from the West play so I cannot comment on him, but Galt, Weisgarber the Campbells and Mihulka would all be deserving players in my opinion. Perfect example! Tom Phillion was a great hockey player, a 4.0 student and a quality kid off the ice. My opinion, Mike Peluso at Bismarck High was the best player in the state that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Its nice seeing so many people with faith in Minot for this state tournament. Thanks I'm not going to make any predictions regarding Minot at state hockey. I would absolutely love to see Minot High win their first round game, but they've broken my heart one too many times, and I'm sorry to say that I've grown almost accustomed to attending the noon game on Friday. This is a great group of seniors though, and I wish them the absolute best! Minot vs. Central: No comment... Fargo South vs. Devils Lake: I saw someone post that this will be a 9-0 game, and I just can't believe that. Devils Lake is the hardest working team I've seen all season, and if they play well it will be a good hockey game. South has way too much depth and too much firepower. Final Score: South 5 Devils Lake 1 Grafton vs. Williston: It would be a tight game if Williston was healthy. Williston has a good d-core, but I think Grafton's top line will carry them to victory in this one. If Williston can shut down that top line it will be close. They may for a while, but it will get to be too much. Final Score: Grafton 5 Williston 2 Red River vs. Bismarck: Red River will win this hockey game because of the Mihulka magic, but Bismarck has been playing well of late and will make this a decent hockey game to watch. If Bismarck's first line can play with Red River's first line and Hillman plays a steady game it will be closer than the 6-0 game some have predicted. I'll say the last game of the day ends the way the one before it did. Final Score: Red River 5 Bismarck 2 Good luck to all the teams, I'll be the nervous guy at the Minot ALL GAMES on Thursday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck71 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Agreed! Now, can anyone help me with South. I need line combinations and defensive pairs as they usually skate. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Just doing my homework. cory1 was mostly right but I did notice some inaccuracies, at least from the several games that I've watched. Obviously lines change over the course of the season and injuries and matchups can mess with things, but this is how I have their lines: Line 1 Weisgarber Larson Powers D1 Galt Spriggs Line 2 Campbell Graalum (listed as D on roster and the stats site but I haven't seen him play any D this year) McDougall D2 Wurden Jorgenson Line 3 Doeden Ramberg Grande D3 Anderson Wagner (but they basically never play - Wagner is who filled in when Wurden was out for a game) Line 4 Hooey Gores Fraedrich, Riopelle, or Baumgarten (they only play 3 lines unless they're up big in the third period) I will note that Hooey replaced Grande on the third line at some or all of EDC, and even scored one of the goals against Red River. I'm not sure what the reason is, but it may happen at state too. It looked like they were shuffling the lines a little bit during EDC too, so cory1's lines may be more current if they did change very recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWPKD Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If the award of Mr. Hockey was just flat out the best hockey player in the state, Mihulka of RR would win. No one in the state can compete with his size, strenght or general skills when it comes to battleing in the corners. If its gonna be all about #'s then it would have to go to Weisgarber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARS9 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If the award of Mr. Hockey was just flat out the best hockey player in the state, Mihulka of RR would win. No one in the state can compete with his size, strenght or general skills when it comes to battleing in the corners. If its gonna be all about #'s then it would have to go to Weisgarber. I dont totally agree with that. I do agree however that Mihulka is very good in the corners and has good strength which results in a VERY hard shot. But to say that he is the flat out best hockey player is a stretch. I believe that Weisgarber has better hands, can just see the ice better and has a very accurate shot, which results in all the points he has. So in my opinion, I think Weisgarber should win but if it's Mihulka, Campbell, or Galt, all of them deserve this award with the year they've all had but it will be interesting to see who it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND Pride Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I dont totally agree with that. I do agree however that Mihulka is very good in the corners and has good strength which results in a VERY hard shot. But to say that he is the flat out best hockey player is a stretch. I believe that Weisgarber has better hands, can just see the ice better and has a very accurate shot, which results in all the points he has. So in my opinion, I think Weisgarber should win but if it's Mihulka, Campbell, or Galt, all of them deserve this award with the year they've all had but it will be interesting to see who it is! This is one of those situations where you hate to debate the relative merits of each player because they each bring so much to the table. Four great players who are a lot of fun to watch - each with some variation in their skill sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Eagles #7 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Mihulka is flat out the best all-around player in the state. He has more goals than anyone, (with the exception of that McBain character), is the best penalty-killer in the state, and he single-handedly beat the "best team in the state" when they knew he was the only player they had to stop. I was not won over on Mihulka for Mr. Hockey before the EDC tourney, i always felt he was the best all-around player, now there is no doubt in my mind he is the best all-around player to come out of ND in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD603DD Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Here's my opinion on the whole Mr. Hockey debate. As an unbiased fan, I think that Mihulka is the best player in the state. From what I've seen this year (and I've been to alot of games) Mihulka is the only player in the state who drastically changes the game whenever he's on the ice. I've seen the Campbells play quite a bit and Weisgarber play alot, but Mihulka is really the only guy who completely changes the game whenever he's on the ice. Take Weisgarber off South and they're still one of the top two teams in the state. Take one of the Campbells off G/PR and they're still the third or fourth best team in the state. But take Mihulka off the Riders and they are a completely different team. Mihulka is my pick for Mr. Hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_11 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Perfect example! Tom Phillion was a great hockey player, a 4.0 student and a quality kid off the ice. My opinion, Mike Peluso at Bismarck High was the best player in the state that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specifics Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Here's my opinion on the whole Mr. Hockey debate. As an unbiased fan, I think that Mihulka is the best player in the state. From what I've seen this year (and I've been to alot of games) Mihulka is the only player in the state who drastically changes the game whenever he's on the ice. I've seen the Campbells play quite a bit and Weisgarber play alot, but Mihulka is really the only guy who completely changes the game whenever he's on the ice. Take Weisgarber off South and they're still one of the top two teams in the state. Take one of the Campbells off G/PR and they're still the third or fourth best team in the state. But take Mihulka off the Riders and they are a completely different team. Mihulka is my pick for Mr. Hockey. Marc Mihulka is a great hockey player. But to say he is the only player who completely changes the game when he touches the ice is hardly a fair analysis. I would be willing to bet every time Erick Galt touches the ice the offensive production of the opposing team decreases significantly. Or, when Weisgarber touches the ice his teams offensive production increases significantly. All are great hockey players but in my mind the only reason this Mr. Hockey award could go to Mihulka is if Galt and Weisgarber split votes. The most intimidating defensemen in the state is Erick Galt, and I don't think anyone will disagree (including the Lincoln Stars). And to say he doesn't change the game every time he steps on the ice is an injustice. -Weisgarber by a landslide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He Who Shoots Top Shelf Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 This is one of the better Mr. Hockey races we've seen in a long time. Paul Campbell seems to always know where his teammates are at on the ice and can snipe like no other. Erick Galt has it all from the defensive stand point, a rocket, moves the puck well, tenacious in the corners. Paul Weisgarber great shot, great playmaker, really can dangle around some of the top players in the state, does seem a little weak in the defensive zone however but not nearly enough to effect his chances of winning a Mr. Hockey crown. Marc Mihulka IMO will be the strongest all around player to come out of North Dakota in quite some time. Size, strength, playmaking ability, deadly accurate wrist, snap, and slap shots. He does it all wins draws, works on the powerplay, and is good for one shorty a game. Marc Mihulka would be my Mr. Hockey vote with Weisgarber in a close 2nd place finish. ****Side note whoever said WDA Senior Athlete of the Year is automatically up for Mr. Hockey should lay off the crack pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck71 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The most intimidating defensemen in the state is Erick Galt, and I don't think anyone will disagree (including the Lincoln Stars). And to say he doesn't change the game every time he steps on the ice is an injustice. -Weisgarber by a landslide. I don't disagree with you, but if you let EDC swing your vote, as some here have indicated, you'd have to factor in the fact that Erick lost the puck behind the net on the power play which resulted in Mihulka's short-handed game-winner in the EDC championship. Arguably that single play won the game for Red River since it put them up by two instead of South later tying the game and having the momentum. If you let that game swing your vote, you'd have to let the deciding play swing your vote, which would almost force you to vote for Mihulka. Personally I don't think you should base anything on one play or even one game. But since the voters can't see all the games, individual games can sway the voting a lot more than they should, especially postseason games. With that said, I do think Weisgarber will win it, based mostly on numbers and a good performance at EDC (although overshadowed by Mihulka). I don't think it will be a landslide, and I wouldn't be surprised if any of them won it, since their numbers and records are so comparable on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Side note whoever said WDA Senior Athlete of the Year is automatically up for Mr. Hockey should lay off the crack pipe. Well, that was me! It was told to me by the head coach. If it's wrong, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He Who Shoots Top Shelf Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Well, that was me! It was told to me by the head coach. If it's wrong, I apologize. "The head coach" is a liar. Now you are informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARS9 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't disagree with you, but if you let EDC swing your vote, as some here have indicated, you'd have to factor in the fact that Erick lost the puck behind the net on the power play which resulted in Mihulka's short-handed game-winner in the EDC championship. Arguably that single play won the game for Red River since it put them up by two instead of South later tying the game and having the momentum. If you let that game swing your vote, you'd have to let the deciding play swing your vote, which would almost force you to vote for Mihulka. Personally I don't think you should base anything on one play or even one game. But since the voters can't see all the games, individual games can sway the voting a lot more than they should, especially postseason games. With that said, I do think Weisgarber will win it, based mostly on numbers and a good performance at EDC (although overshadowed by Mihulka). I don't think it will be a landslide, and I wouldn't be surprised if any of them won it, since their numbers and records are so comparable on paper. Your facts are a little wrong here. In that short handed goal Erick didn't turn it over, Wurden got the puck and then was picked by Mihulka and scored, so I don't see how you can put the blame on Erick in that situation or Wurden for that fact. Marc made a good play on Wurden and made a heck of a shot. P.S. I still don't see how Wurden didn't make all conference with year he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 "The head coach" is a liar. Now you are informed. wow. No offense, but you sure showed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He Who Shoots Top Shelf Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Wurden didn't make All-Conference because there are 8 other teams in the EDC and its hard enough for these coaches to humble themselves to give one school 2 All-EDC players yet alone 5 like Fargo South received. In the end there will always be some snubs, thats just the way it worked out. The only ?'s on All-EDC this year are Swanson from WF (although the 4 seed does deserve at least one) and mainly Simonson from GFC who plays forward. Eric Meland definitely had a better year than Simonson yet no Red River apologists are on here bagging for more. It's the All-EDC team not the Fargo South All Stars. I'm sure two-handing a player while shaking hands didn't help his chances either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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