Anti D-I petition circulating at SDSU

[PCM]

I think PCM answers his own question and exposes the myopia that exists about Decision 1.

I'm basing my "myopia" on 18 years of being associated with research in both university and industry settings. As far as I can tell, your claims are based entirely on wishful thinking.

Perhaps you're not aware that a major initiative of President Kupchella is to substatially boost UND's research funding over the next five years. Thus far, the university has met with considerable success in achieving the goals Kupchella set for increased funding.

Curiously, a move to DIAA is not part of the plan to increase research funding. And you'd think that if success in DI athletics created a corresponding rise in research funding, it would be fairly easy to prove at UND where seven DI national titles have been won. Yet I have never heard anyone at UND suggest that any such correlation exists. Why is that?

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

Maybe everyone has not taken the time to look. Does Kupchella hope to get those dollars by not inviting the politicans to a athletic event when they are in Town? I dont think so. My guess they are free ticket holders, since they have to do the leg work in Congress to get these dollars funded. Kupchella does not get his research funding over the next five years by himself.

Maybe my thinking and JBB'S is wishful, but I have no doubts there are some connections. Why are both Presidents at SDSU and NDSU leading the charge to D1AA? What prompted them to think in this fashion? Are they just misinformed and stupid? I don't think so.

Kupchella instead of learning from his experiences at Southeast Missouri State University in moving to D1, is bad mouthing the whole idea. Obviously Kup was not part of the solution down at SEMO, but more of a problem and could that be why he was looking for a new place like Grand Forks to hang his hat? Think about that for a while!!!

Why would you trade balmy Cape Girardueau for frosty Grand Forks?

One hand washes another and thats what I am thinking in terms of athletics and research. Maybe that is wishful thinking. Wishful in your mind but not in my mind.

What sort of proof do you need for a correlation between athletics and research dollars? A thesis with complicated statistics that only eggheads can comprend and of course throw in those stupid graphs. Now that's another way to look important. I know I sound anti-intellectual but I am not exactly dazzled by your career in research what ever may be. Maybe your research has to do with perserving flickertails for all I now. Yes PCM,.you know more about research than I do, but maybe there is status quo in research in terms of quality and quanitity and maybe it is not uncommon. I think research departments are like all others on campus and if it were not for the publish or perish prinicple a great number of people would only be found on campus on pay day and anywhere and elsewhere the rest of the pay period.

[SDSUFAN]

Easy there, killer. I went to the site. If you'd simply scroll up, you'd see that I was the one who provided the link to the site and quotes from the story in first place.

BTW-- not reposting copyrighted materials isn't my rule, it's the law of land. I was simply asking if you'd seen the pamphlet that the article indicates she distributes. I've already been bombarded with all the pro-move propaganda that the school distributes, I don't need to see any more of that. I was curious what she had to say, but apparently you've not actually seen it.

Mr. Dahl:

I understand your concern about copyright law and no problem.

Again I must state that The Brookings Register has done such a horrible job covering this issue. There are two Speakouts submitted and published on Nov 16 and again on Nov 20 that are critical of the Register's coverage. The two individuals who submitted the speak outs were Keith Jensen and Eric Lingren. I know Mr. Jensen. He worked for a while as news reporter and then was SDSU Alumni Executive Director for a few years and finished his working career as Executive Director of South Dakota Newpaper Association. I do not know Mr. Lingren. If you would send me a fax number to below email address I will be more than glad to fax you copies. These columns are not on The Register website, and after reading these two columns you will see why.

Both writers are supportive of many of the arguements that I have made, but were stated in a more rational and logical format. Also I would be willing to fax a copy of Chuck Cecil's column that is not on the site either, but thank god for print versions. Otherwise I would not have been aware of these articles.

cdhusby@megavision.com

[SDSUFAN]

Just another tidbit about the Brookings Register. Rod Thomsagard, who has been very negative about the move to D1, started a poll at the Register about D1. The question was" Should SDSU make the move to D1 for athletics?"

I checked last evening November 27 at 11:00pm and of the 416 responses , just a little over 50 per cent favored yes. This is a significant jump from the Argus leader poll a month ago and also another poll of the same question that was run this summer by The Brookings Register in which the response of "No" to the question was running nearly 70 per cent. These polls have a lock on them by email address so you can only vote one time.

RT is mentioned in the two speak outs column noted in the previous post and is severly criticized for not giving this issue proper coverage. Instead of doing interviews, RT has blasted away from his column and has attack President Miller and Dr. Oien both.

A night and day comparison with Jeff Kolpech of the Fargo Forum.

[PCM]

What sort of proof do you need for a correlation between athletics and research dollars?

SDSUFAN,

I am not a researcher or a scientist.

Let me make this simple for you. I have sat through hours and hours of meetings with CEOs of companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars and listened to them discuss where and how they would invest their research dollars. Never once in all of these discussions did anyone ever mention a university's athletic teams or its NCAA division level as a reason for steering research dollars to a particular institution.

On the university side, I have sat through countless hours of meetings at which the discussion focused on attracting government and industry research dollars. Never once have I heard anyone suggest that UND would do better in this area if it moved to the DIAA level. I suspect that anyone who suggested such a thing would be laughed out of the room.

I've worked closely with UND researchers who are big Fighting Sioux hockey fans. I've been here for two DI hockey championships and a DII football championship. Although I interact with researchers nearly every working day, never once have I heard even one of them suggest that UND's success in athletics translates to more research money for the university.

This is all anecdotal evidence, of course. However, I do believe that if there was anything to what you and JBB claim, there's a good chance that at least once in my 18-year association with industry and university research, someone, somewhere, at some point would have at least mentioned the connection between athletics and research dollars.

I will put my practical experience up against your wishful thinking any day.

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

I am willing to make truce here on this issue and maybe I am confusing corporate sponsorship with research. With corporate sponsor ship, the firm is using the athletic events to advertize their products or to give their firm image. Selling industry and government both on research dollars I sure is not an easy job.

From what I understand, the chances for being a particpant in grants and research which deal primarily with agriculture and agri-business will be better with a higher level of athletics. Wishful thinking yes, but it sure can not hurt. Why should SDSU hang around D2, when there are schools like Sacremento State and Cal-State Northridge that are D1AA and have no where the athletic programs that are at SDSU and NCC. I just think this issue is about the future and what it can do for SDSU, be it academics or research. I think there is some relationship in there somewhere.

[JBB]

Research dollars are part of the picture, but they are by no means the entire picture. When a university feels it is at the D1 level athletics will also be played at the D1 level. This does include research dollars, currently for NDSU they are at the highest level in history. The research facilities are all being upgraded and continued growth is expectted far into the future.

The cooperation between local business and NDSU has never been greater. Fargos tremendous growth is reflected in the growth at NDSU.

it also includes student body: NDSU's undergraduate programs are attracting a D1 size student body,

it also has to do with Graduate Programs: NDSU is at a D1 level with its graduate schools, New programs are being added on a continuos basis.

it also has to do with progress and direction of the University: NDSU is growing with a new Downtown Campus housing the school of Architecture, a new business college building is being built (this will create dramatic growth in the school of business), new dormitories are being built, All you have to do is drive around campus. You will quickly see all the new buildings have at least doubled the size of the campus and the construction activities seem to be everywhere.

it also has to do with faculty: salaries are on the rise and this is in line with the NDSU goal of retaining faculty members and attracting new quality faculty (this is a very important factor in the future of NDSU, more so than athletics).

One area where NDSU has to focus is on a new library. If anyone has seen the new library on the SCSU campus you know what an A1 facility is.

[SDSUFAN]

JBB:

Apparently PCM has not had a chance to attend a Cereral Bowl at his Alma Mater, SDSU. What usually happens at Half time is about 4 crop organizations turn over big checks for research projects going on at SDSU. These checks are the carboard kind that are photo opportuntities The Pres of SDSU accepts these checks for research in their area of concern. The checks this fall totalled about $400,000. Moving up to D1AA and bringing in more people for the game, this opportunity will only broaden for SDSU. I dont know why they do this at a football game, we should be like UND and do it behind close doors so as not to offend someone.

Do these Crop groups care about athletics? I think they do otherwise the Cereral bowl game would be a big flop. Its an event thats growing.

I think with land grand universities, SDSU and NDSU, with the emphasis on Agriculture there is an opportunity to honor providers of research dollars at athletic events. Maybe research at UND is different and if so, so be it. They seem to be missing an opportunity to grow in athletics and research.

[ScottM]

I'm basing my "myopia" on 18 years of being associated with research in both university and industry settings. As far as I can tell, your claims are based entirely on wishful thinking.

I agree Pat. Attempting a link between D1 status and a school's research capabilities is tenuous at best, and can be dishonest at worst.

A few years ago, I represented a local client whose CEO is/was a big booster of Michigan athletics. We were doing a joint research venture with a couple of well known universities, not Minnesota or Michigan. Not once did the athletic departments of these respective schools come into the conversations as we hashed out the details. Of course, these were DIII schools, namely the University of Chicago and MIT.

[SDSUFAN]

So Scott:

Should I be impressed?

[SDSUFAN]

So Scotty, are the presidents at NDSU and SDSU dishonest? That a kind implication from an UND egghead.

[SDSUFAN]

I just thought that I would give a little update on the petition leader here. Not that its important or not, but one of the things that Ms. Jost did not tell her signers besides having two nephews recruited by SDSU, is that her brother-in-law is Chad Lavin. Mr. Lavin is the head basketball coach at USD and though a quiet guy, he can be very sneaky. I will let others judge what influence he had on his sister-in-law, a very quiet scientist at SDSU.

I have no proof, but am willing to bet he(LAVIN) was talking to Mandy Koupal and the Schooley gal from Watertown before they transferred to USD. The joke is on Lavin though, he thinks he has got SDSU with the tranfer of Koupal and they still lost to SDSU 2 of 3 times last year. This year SDSU-USD will fill both facilities and may out drawn the mens game. I take my JACKS in both games.

[The Sicatoka]

SDSUFAN:

Very interesting.

Anything new on the "Grassy Knoll" or Jimmy Hoffa's location?

[PCM]

As long as we're investigating rumors in this thread, I'd like to know if Jon Durno really is the illegitimate child of Derek Smalls.

Jon Durno, Canisius College forward

Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap bass player

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

I am clueless, but since you have gotten so much smarter up their in the cold air of Grand Forks, you should be able to answer your own question.

What the hell is a hat trick?

[jimdahl]

What the hell is a hat trick?

It's an old cricket term that has been applied to sports in general (often used in ice hockey).

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=h...t%20trick

[The Sicatoka]

A hat trick in the context used to today or a hat trick in the original context which is normally called a "natural hat trick" today?

Originally, for a hat trick, you had to score three goals in succession. These days that's called a "natural" hat trick and just getting three goals in a game is called a hat trick.

When it happens at a game with real fans, all the hats in the crowd end up on the ice as a salute to the player.

The last one for UND at REA was Parise's against Niagara. Bochenski had one the night before.

[PCM]

What would I do without SDSUFAN to remind me of the tropical paradise known as Brookings, South Dakota?

[SDSUFAN]

PCM:

Thanks. Now I know. I really dont have any news on the grassy knoll or Jimmy Hoffa. No reason to speculate about Hoffa, he is in the concrete somewhere and I honestly believe there were several shots fired from the grass knoll. It had something to do with the 1960 election and winning Illinois. Joe Kennedy got to close to the wrong kind of friends in Chicago if you get the picture. If you dont get the picture I recommend the movie "Analize That" Billy Crystal and Robert DeNiro.

[The Sicatoka]

Hoffa? Concrete? North end zone, Giants Stadium. Didn't you know?

Why do you think the Pope held mass there a few years back? It was so that now it's considered sacred ground and Jimmy can rest in peace at a sacred place.

[SDSUFAN]

Its better than a hat trick, and like Coach Blais, I kind of like that guy. (The Pope that is.)

[Riverman]

Its better than a hat trick,

Remember your pencil, the topic is Checking from Behind.

Since we all see you have learned what a Hat Trick is.

[SDSUFAN]

Hey I can laugh at that

[JBB]

I see the Herald is at it again. Touting the non integrated D1 Hockey sport as the least scandal ridden of all big time college athletics, putting down all other D1 sports as too expensive and scandal ridden and conveniently forgetting that your DII basketball program is now dirty and facing sanction.

Rather than compare the NDSU move up to the top of the BCS schools why dont they present the situation as it will be? NDSU is going to play in the BSC not the BCS. Thats a lot different and makes a more realistic comparison.

In fact, why do they bother to mention NDSU at all?

I think thats 3 solid points and makes a hat trick!

[PCM]

I see the Herald is at it again. Touting the non integrated D1 Hockey sport as the least scandal ridden of all big time college athletics, putting down all other D1 sports as too expensive and scandal ridden and conveniently forgetting that your DII basketball program is now dirty and facing sanction.

I have to admit that I was disappointed to see the Herald go down that road again, especially after the Myron Allen incident.

By the way, nice hat trick! At least one non-UND fan knows how to use the term in proper context.