Independent conference

[ND4Life]

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

Just wondering what Sioux fans' opinions are of the potential conference made up of the Division I independents, NDSU, SDSU, et. al. Do you think UND would have any interest in such a conference, perhaps as an entree into Division I? Or do you think it's the Big Sky or nothing?

Not trying to stir up the old DI-vs.-DII debate. Just curious what others think.

[greenandgold01]

The Gateway + another conference is also an option.

[star2city]

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

Just wondering what Sioux fans' opinions are of the potential conference made up of the Division I independents, NDSU, SDSU, et. al. Do you think UND would have any interest in such a conference, perhaps as an entree into Division I? Or do you think it's the Big Sky or nothing?

Not trying to stir up the old DI-vs.-DII debate. Just curious what others think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This new conference, if it gets running, will have an extremely difficult time sustaining itself. Once all the schools attain full DI membership (IPFW, TxAM-CC, UTPA already have full DI status, Longwood needs two years, NDSU & SDSU need three years for full DI status, Utah Valley needs four more years [it has longer probation because it moved up from junior college ranks], NJIT needs four more years), a seven year clock starts ticking for the Big Dance auto bid. During the seven year wait, any school defecting could cause the seven year clock to reset, but the clock would be restarted only if a new full DI status member could be added.

The conference really needs 14-16 founding schools in geographically remote regions, to give it decent odds that the conference could make it to full term.

Without a DI midmajor school in Minnesota to provide a window for conferences toward the east, the Big Sky probably is really the only option for either UND or NDSU. The MidCON (which wants basketball schools) might have a slight interest in SDSU, but only after it is fully a DI member.

[greenandgold01]

TAMU CC and UT PA are being considered for the Southland.

[star2city]

TAMU CC and UT PA are being considered for the Southland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UTPA will not get an invite. TAMU-CC, even though it has a decent basketball program, a great downtown facility, and a decent media market may also be left out because it doesn't have football. Central Arkansas is practically a sure thing, and Tarleton State may get in rather than TAMU-CC.

Of the eight schools looking into that independent conference, NJIT and Longwood probably can get into conferences within two years. UTPA and Utah Valley State have fewer options and less hope than NDSU/SDSU.

[bigmrg74]

I don't think UND is going to be looking at moving up until NDSU has gone out and got themselves into a stable conference already. Until then, its keeping the NCC together with Baling wire and sheet metal, Keeping UNO happy so they don't jump to the MIAA and trying to get another team to join in the NCC.

[greenandgold01]

UTPA will not get an invite. TAMU-CC, even though it has a decent basketball program, a great downtown facility, and a decent media market may also be left out because it doesn't have football. Central Arkansas is practically a sure thing, and Tarleton State may get in rather than TAMU-CC.

Of the eight schools looking into that independent conference, NJIT and Longwood probably can get into conferences within two years. UTPA and Utah Valley State have fewer options and less hope than NDSU/SDSU.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UTPA does have an advantage over those schools in that it's part of the UT system like UT San Antonio and UT Arlington.

[bincitysioux]

UND, nor NDSU has any shot at the gateway. The independent conference is bad, but it is a conference. If UND moves within the next five years, they will be in the Great West and the Independent conference. I think the best option for non-football sports after the probation period is the Horizon Leauge. The chances for the Big Sky are very slim for either NDSU or UND (if they move) unless Sac State and/or Portland St. leave. If they stay, the Big Sky will look to schools farther west than the Dakotas if they expand. However if they did consider a Dakota school, I think UND would have an advantage, even during the probation period, over SDSU/NDSU, simply because of facilities, acadamics, and a prior history in DI competition.

[FargoBison]

First of all NDSU and SDSU both have a great chance at getting into the Gateway all it would take is one of three schools going IA(SIU, WKU, or MSU). If either one of those schools leave NDSU and maybe also SDSU, NDSU could be potentailly added alone. And that Big Sky comment was an absolute joke. The only way UND is getting in the Sky is with NDSU because they would want to add the rivarly to their conference. And UND has ZERO shot at getting into the sky while in D2 sitting behind both NDSU and SDSU. NDSU is a football school that has beaten Big Sky schools and has the best football program between the three Dakota schools if they took one team NDSU would be a lock. If UND wants to be in the Sky you better go DI otherwise it ain't happening, same with the Mid-Con and the Horizon these conferences aren't going to add D2 UND with NDSU and SDSU waiting for a conference. DI hockey means nothing to the Big Sky, none of their schools play it and none are ever going to play it. The Sky isn't going to take in UND because they can play hockey good. Academics are pretty equal among UND, SDSU, and NDSU so there is no advantage there either. You may have an edge on Facilities but the edge isn't huge(the BSA will be renvoted or replaced before UND even enters DI.)

[greenandgold01]

I personally don't think that the Big Sky is going to be an option for NDSU or UND.

When Sac State leaves for the WAC, I think the sky will add UC Davis.

[FargoBison]

UC Davis is happily in the Big West and will be there unitl they go IA in football. IF UC Davis wanted to be in the Big Sky I'm pretty sure they would already be playing there.

[iramurphy]

First of all NDSU and SDSU both have a great chance at getting into the Gateway all it would take is one of three schools going IA(SIU, WKU, or MSU). If either one of those schools leave NDSU and maybe also SDSU will be in because there is no school in the area that can match what NDSU bring to the Gateway. NDSU could be potentailly added alone. And that Big Sky comment was an absolute joke. The only way UND is getting in the Sky is with NDSU because they would want to add the rivarly to their conference. And UND has ZERO shot at getting into the sky while in D2 sitting behind both NDSU and SDSU. NDSU is a football school that has beaten Big Sky schools and has the best football program between the three Dakota schools if they took one team NDSU would be a lock. If UND wants to be in the Sky you better go DI otherwise it ain't happening, same with the Mid-Con and the Horizon these conferences aren't going to add a D2 with NDSU and SDSU waiting for a conference. DI hockey means nothing to the Big Sky, none of their schools play it and none are ever going to play it. The Sky isn't going to take in UND because they can play hockey good. Academics are pretty equal among UND, SDSU, and NDSU so there is no advantage there either. You may have an edge on Facilities but the edge isn't huge(the BSA will be renvoted or replaced before UND even enters DI.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for setting me straight. I was under the mistaken impression that because UND beat the Agricultural College 10 of the last 13 games and also owns a decisive edge in the series, that everyone, except the jock-sniffers in Fargo, would believe that would be the criteria one might consider when trying to decide which is the better team. Obviously, I was wrong. Unlike the rest of the world, you simply declare it to be the case. Where do I get season tickets.

That also means that Army is better than USC, Rutgers is better than U of Miami or Harvard is better than Michigan. Some time back I believe they were better, especially Army. Times change buddy and UND has been a much better team in the last 15 years or so. If you wish to consider all of history the same holds true.

There was a decade or so in the 1980's when they used creative accounting to increase their scholarships and were the best DII program in the country. The NCC made them stop it and they were no longer dominant. One of your beloved former assistant coaches outlined how it was done over a few beers. I figure it created almost 13 scholarship equivilants. That is a rough estimate but it was significant. Once they were back on a level playing field UND resumed our dominance.

As for being comparable academically I was again mistaken. US News and World Report rankings year after year rank UND in the tier above the AC. A number of other ranking services do the same. These ranking services see clearly UND is a better academic institution. They obviously have not heard from Fargo Bison and I would assume you will straighten them out.

[Bison101]

The best option for all of us is if Sac State goes to the WAC. Portland State is a joke and NAU belongs in the Big West

My conference.

NDSU

UND

USD

SDSU

MONTANA

MONTANA SATE

IDAHO STATE

WEBER STATE

EASTERN WASHINGTON

UNC

I don't care who you are, but that would be one hell of a conference that all members could live with for a long time.

[FargoBison]

To answer the football question NDSU is in IAA and playing and beating IAA teams until UND does the same they will not be on equal ground. I wasn't even talking about past success what NDSU is doing now in IAA is what matters. And I don't care what US news says their isn't a big difference between an NDSU or UND degree.

[bincitysioux]

I never said that hockey plays a factor for the big sky, I said having DI experience might, and UND has alot more DI experience than the Ag College. I hope you are a joking when you say that NDSU and UND are pretty close on an academic level. That's just funny. I never said UND could make the Sky as a DII, but would have a better chance than SDSU/NDSU while on probation. The Big Sky is a pretty lofty goal for any Dakota school, but if UND were DI, they'd have a much better shot than SDSU/NDSU.

[FargoBison]

The only DI expeirence UND has is hockey and that isn't going to mean anything to the Big Sky. The sky is never going to add one Dakota school it is either going to be 2 or 3 but NDSU has tons of support from both Montana and Montana St so they would be ahead of UND even on probabation. Academic wise the two schools offer different programs so comparing the two is hard but a degree from either is worth about the same. The Sky is no lofty goal, the last vote NDSU recieved an overwhelming majority but just couldn't get the unanimous vote it needed. A lofty goal for NDSU is the MVC not the sky.

[Bison101]

"I never said UND could make the Sky as a DII, but would have a better chance than SDSU/NDSU while on probation. The Big Sky is a pretty lofty goal for any Dakota school, but if UND were DI, they'd have a much better shot than SDSU/NDSU."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is insane. THe big sky is first and foremost a football league. NDSU would certainly be their top choice, it is crazy to think otherwise. However, as a package, UND and NDSU would be nearly impossible for them to pass up, in fact given the choice of the three Dakota schools, if they were only going to take two, poor SDSU would be screwed. But to think that that UND would offer more to a football league then NDSU is ridiculous.

As far as us ever joining the MVC, I just can't see that happening. The MVC is first and foremost a basketball league. NDSU and UND don't have that hat to hang on at least in mens basketball. We ahve to find a football conference.

As far as UND grads having a better recognized degree, I think it has hard to argue with that. How many big name politicians have a degree from NDSU? Not to mention, most of these magazines that rank institutions always favor Liberal Arts schools. However, I doubt that the educational experience is much different nor do I believe that UND grads are better prepared for the real world.

[CoteauRinkRat]

First of all NDSU and SDSU both have a great chance at getting into the Gateway all it would take is one of three schools going IA(SIU, WKU, or MSU). If either one of those schools leave NDSU and maybe also SDSU, NDSU could be potentailly added alone. And that Big Sky comment was an absolute joke. The only way UND is getting in the Sky is with NDSU because they would want to add the rivarly to their conference. And UND has ZERO shot at getting into the sky while in D2 sitting behind both NDSU and SDSU. NDSU is a football school that has beaten Big Sky schools and has the best football program between the three Dakota schools if they took one team NDSU would be a lock. If UND wants to be in the Sky you better go DI otherwise it ain't happening, same with the Mid-Con and the Horizon these conferences aren't going to add D2 UND with NDSU and SDSU waiting for a conference. DI hockey means nothing to the Big Sky, none of their schools play it and none are ever going to play it. The Sky isn't going to take in UND because they can play hockey good. Academics are pretty equal among UND, SDSU, and NDSU so there is no advantage there either. You may have an edge on Facilities but the edge isn't huge(the BSA will be renvoted or replaced before UND even enters DI.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to come on here and make a valid argument that is one thing, but to rant and rave and spew nothing but garbage is a whole different story. The tired and childish arguments you make are quite hilarious.

[FargoBison]

If you want to come on here and make a valid argument that is one thing, but to rant and rave and spew nothing but garbage is a whole different story.

[bincitysioux]

Damn, now I'm getting picked on at this message board, too.

[iramurphy]

[SiouxMeNow]

damn bison trolls