NSIC extends invitations

[Cratter]

I have to imagine that Crookston, Moorehead, and now Mary all being Division II, while our archrival moved to Division I, will be even more pressure amongst alumni to pressure UND to move to IAA.

Mary moving into the same division as UND will be the last straw for some.

[UND92,96]

I have to imagine that Crookston, Moorehead, and now Mary all being Division II, while our archrival moved to Division I,  will be even more pressure amongst alumni to pressure UND to move to IAA.

Mary moving into the same division as UND will be the last straw for some.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree that some people are going to look at those facts and question whether UND should remain in dII. However, until NDSU and SDSU find a conference for the majority of their sports, I don't think most UND fans will be pushing for a move. The idea of potentially being a dI independent for several years is far less enticing than remaining in the NCC in my opinion.

[GeauxSioux]

I would agree that some people are going to look at those facts and question whether UND should remain in dII. However, until NDSU and SDSU find a conference for the majority of their sports, I don't think most UND fans will be pushing for a move. The idea of potentially being a dI independent for several years is far less enticing than remaining in the NCC in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that going Division I without a conference plan would not be financially wise, nor would it be beneficial for the student athlete to have no conference championships to play for. I have read on other boards about the geography really hurting the upper midwest insofar as conference affiliation. I think that UND is prudent in continuning to update facilities for a long term goal of Division I when the timing is right.

[RD17]

[greenandgold01]

I'm curious, why does the NAIA even exist? It seems like every year more NAIA teams move over to NCAA D2.

What advantages are there to being NAIA?

[RD17]

I'm curious, why does the NAIA even exist? It seems like every year more NAIA teams move over to NCAA D2.

What advantages are there to being NAIA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The NAIA started as a national basketball tournament for smaller schools in Kansas City back in the 40's. It was attractive at that time because it offered the postseason possibilities for small schools that the NCAA did not.

When D2 began cutting scholarships in football (especially that last cut to 36 about 10 years ago) it became more and more attractive for the top NAIA schools to join. Almost every school that at one time played NAIA Division I football (there were two divisions at one time) has now joined NCAA D2. If not for the two membership moratoriums that D2 had in about 1996 and 2000, the NAIA would likely have collapsed by now.

The other reason the NCAA has attracted so many NAIA members is because the NAIA had no catastrophic injury insurance and also did not reimburse its members for postseason travel expenses like the NCAA does. Postseason play was literally bankrupting some of the NAIA schools that had successful athletic programs.

There are really two things that make the NAIA attractive to a segment of schools now. First, there are no overall sports sponsorship minimums to play in the NAIA. There are many, many NAIA schools that only offer 4,5,6 sports. To be D2 or D3, you have to sponsor 10 sports. Secondly, it serves as a place for small private schools that want to offer some athletic scholarships. Most NAIA schools could not be competitive in D2.

[greenandgold01]

The NAIA started as a national basketball tournament for smaller schools in Kansas City back in the 40's. It was attractive at that time because it offered the postseason possibilities for small schools that the NCAA did not.

When D2 began cutting scholarships in football (especially that last cut to 36 about 10 years ago) it became more and more attractive for the top NAIA schools to join. Almost every school that at one time played NAIA Division I football (there were two divisions at one time) has now joined NCAA D2. If not for the two membership moratoriums that D2 had in about 1996 and 2000, the NAIA would likely have collapsed by now.

The other reason the NCAA has attracted so many NAIA members is because the NAIA had no catastrophic injury insurance and also did not reimburse its members for postseason travel expenses like the NCAA does. Postseason play was literally bankrupting some of the NAIA schools that had successful athletic programs.

There are really two things that make the NAIA attractive to a segment of schools now. First, there are no overall sports sponsorship minimums to play in the NAIA. There are many, many NAIA schools that only offer 4,5,6 sports. To be D2 or D3, you have to sponsor 10 sports. Secondly, it serves as a place for small private schools that want to offer some athletic scholarships. Most NAIA schools could not be competitive in D2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see, thanks for the info.

What do these moratoriums in 1996 and 2000 do to restrict the influx of NAIA schools?

[RD17]

I see, thanks for the info.

What do these moratoriums in 1996 and 2000 do to restrict the influx of NAIA schools?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The moratoriums basically stopped the momentum of so many schools switching and gave the NAIA time to make some changes to appeal to its membership. Kind of a cooling off period if you will. The NAIA improved its insurance package and also added this "champions of character" initiative that many of the private faith-based schools find attractive.

The other major thing the NAIA did is change its rules so that a school leaving for D2 or D3 would no longer be eligible for NAIA postseason play. It used to be that NAIA schools could continue to play in the postseason during their provisional periods into D2. So in some cases, schools were playing in the NAIA postseason one year and the D2 postseason the next. Now a school like U-Mary isn't eligible for any postseason play for a few years after making the switch. This makes the transition much more painful and encourages schools to think twice before making the change.

[greenandgold01]

What's the deal with the NCAA having a post season transition probation period for new teams?

Most teams that move simply won't be able to compete with the top teams in the division, and wouldn't make the playoffs anyway.

The few teams that would be able to compete at the top level right away deserve to be there, so why make them wait?

[RD17]

What's the deal with the NCAA having a post season transition probation period for new teams?

Most teams that move simply won't be able to compete with the top teams in the division, and wouldn't make the playoffs anyway.

The few teams that would be able to compete at the top level right away deserve to be there, so why make them wait?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The main reason it's there is for stability. If you didn't have that transition period in there, schools could jump around from division to division on a whim and simply move right back if it didn't work out. Basically the transition period insures that only schools that are serious about competing in the new division make the move. I do agree though that the probationary period should be shortened if a school can prove that it is reaching certain benchmarks sooner than expected.

[greenandgold01]

The main reason it's there is for stability. If you didn't have that transition period in there, schools could jump around from division to division on a whim and simply move right back if it didn't work out. Basically the transition period insures that only schools that are serious about competing in the new division make the move. I do agree though that the probationary period should be shortened if a school can prove that it is reaching certain benchmarks sooner than expected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They could get rid of the probationary period and simply say that a school that moves up can't go back down for 5 years.

[RD17]

They could get rid of the probationary period and simply say that a school that moves up can't go back down for 5 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but there are also a lot of little differences between divisions that necessitate the transition period. For example, the different eligibility standards between DI and D2. There are many D2 schools that sign JUCOs or high school recruits that aren't eligible for DI. In theory a D2 school could sign a boatload of these types of players with the promise that they could compete for a I-AA title when the school switches divisions the following year. You also have the issue where a D2 school could get a recruiting advantage over other D2 schools by promising to recruits that they will get an opportunity at the I-AA postseason in their careers.

You also have the whole issue with the NCAA now having a federated structure. By that I mean that D1, D2, and D3 essentially operate as seperate entities under the umbrella of the NCAA. They all enact their own legislation, vote exclusively on their own rules, etc. It used to be that all three divisions operated essentially as one. This will lead to more of these little quirks and rule differences between the divisions in the future.

[greenandgold01]

Yes, but there are also a lot of little differences between divisions that necessitate the transition period. For example, the different eligibility standards between DI and D2. There are many D2 schools that sign JUCOs or high school recruits that aren't eligible for DI. In theory a D2 school could sign a boatload of these types of players with the promise that they could compete for a I-AA title when the school switches divisions the following year. You also have the issue where a D2 school could get a recruiting advantage over other D2 schools by promising to recruits that they will get an opportunity at the I-AA postseason in their careers.

You also have the whole issue with the NCAA now having a federated structure. By that I mean that D1, D2, and D3 essentially operate as seperate entities under the umbrella of the NCAA. They all enact their own legislation, vote exclusively on their own rules, etc. It used to be that all three divisions operated essentially as one. This will lead to more of these little quirks and rule differences between the divisions in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That all makes sense.

I wonder, in fact, if the top level DI schools will split away from the NCAA in the future and form their own association.