NDFlyer Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 At this particular moment in time if I am a GM I would take Kessel over Crosby. Remember, this is based solely on performance in this tournament. Kessel has shown that he can do it all. End to end with the puck. Can skate, forecheck like a werewolf and can simply create offense with his instincts. Crosby is an excellent finisher, but he has also been the recipient of some uber sweet setups from some very talented linemates. If the same USA Hockey people who picked the forwards for this team could have picked some equally talented defensemen then Team USA might be in a different position. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that this is just a bad year for young American defensemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 At this particular moment in time if I am a GM I would take Kessel over Crosby. Remember, this is based solely on performance in this tournament. Kessel has shown that he can do it all. End to end with the puck. Can skate, forecheck like a werewolf and can simply create offense with his instincts. Crosby is an excellent finisher, but he has also been the recipient of some uber sweet setups from some very talented linemates. If the same USA Hockey people who picked the forwards for this team could have picked some equally talented defensemen then Team USA might be in a different position. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that this is just a bad year for young American defensemen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may be why you are not a GM, NDFlyer. Considering you hate Gretzkey I can't respect your opinion too much. Did you see Crosby play? The kid is a freak of hockey. Kessel had one amazing game, but none of his other performances were that noticable. Crosby can take over a game single handedly and Kessel can't. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxtatoo42 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 i am a huge crosby pimp. I think he is the real deal. one thing i have noticed about him in the tournament is the shortness of his shifts. It seemed to me that whenever his line was out there. they would get the puck up ice, get an opportunity, backcheck, and then he'd come off on a line change while burgeron and the right winger got the puck in the offensive zone and started cycling. make's me curious about his conditioning. Great finisher, great setup guy (bergeron has seen some uber sweet setups himself from crosby), and he's a hard worker down in the corners, he almost always came out with the puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Take it easy, there, Marty. There are many reasons why I am not a GM. Hating Gretzky has little to do with it. You are entirely delusional if you believe I care the slightest about your opinion of me. Uh, yeah, I have seen Crosby play every game. I have seen all but one game in GF. I have cheered for and followed the Canucks the entire tournament. I also predicted that USA would be very lucky to get a medal and that Brian Lee would contribute nothing except for being a solid bench door opener during this tournament. This thread was intended to discuss Kessel and Crosby. Tell Wayne I said, "hey" the next time you talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Uh, disagree with NDFlyer. I was hoping Crosby would score vs the Czechs (he did get an assist) but there is a few things worth noting: Crosby makes plays develop. Not just because he is getting set up. A few times during that game it was Crosby vs. 2 or 3 Czechs riding him into the zone while the rest of the Canadians change and he'd still nearly score. He CONSISTENTLY is the first to a puck. It seemed like he could cross the ice from side to side to beat the nearest Czech defender to the puck. He's flashy, but he's not like Dawes or Carter in so much that Carter, IMO, always seemed to try to make it look pretty. He is a MASTER positioner around the net. Gosh I can't believe I'm going to make this comparison, but Crosby is a lot like Vanek in the offensive zone without the need for cherry picking. He was clearly the best on the ice to me even though he didn't get player of the game. No, Kessel isn't as good as Crosby, but he could be. The fact is, Crosby is a great skater with unbelievable hands who usually can finish (He should have scored twice against the Czechs) every time. Lastly, Sidney has had a better tourney OVERALL than Kessel, but Kessel can playmake right alongside Sidney if he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfreak Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Anyone that thinks that Kessel can hold a candle to Crosby is extremely delusional IMO. Considering how deep the 05 draft class is, to have Crosby on top of that list for the last 2-3 years is absolutely amazing (especially considering he is nearly a year younger than some of the kids available). Kessel is not even thought of as the consensus number one american for the 06 draft and that is not as deep as the 05 draft. Just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Anyone that thinks that Kessel can hold a candle to Crosby is extremely delusional IMO. Considering how deep the 05 draft class is, to have Crosby on top of that list for the last 2-3 years is absolutely amazing (especially considering he is nearly a year younger than some of the kids available). Kessel is not even thought of as the consensus number one american for the 06 draft and that is not as deep as the 05 draft. Just my opinion though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kessel had one good game. He tried doing his moves against Russia and had the puck taken away from him every time. The Russian's 3rd (?) goal was a result of him trying to carry the puck through two defenders. He lost it and it created a 2 on 1 for the Russians. The kid has great skills, and will be a very good player. However he doesn not have the awareness Crosby has. Crosby is like Gretzky - he is always in the right place and always makes the right decision. He sees the ice better than anyone in the WJ tourny. If Crosby had the ice time, he would easily be leading the WJ's in scoring. For some reason he only plays about 3 minutes a period. Kessel will likely be a mid first round pick. Crosby will be the #1 pick, and will be the highest touted pick since Eric Lindros. Let's just hope he doesn't end up whining about which team picks him and refuse to play until he's traded like Lindros did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 He tried doing his moves against Russia and had the puck taken away from him every time. The Russian's 3rd (?) goal was a result of him trying to carry the puck through two defenders. He lost it and it created a 2 on 1 for the Russians. I was wondering if that was noticed as much as the succesful rushes were against Sweden. It was especially frustrating to having PP possessions end that way. That said, can you imagine the terror that kid will be on the big ice at Mariucci. He's so fast that the defense will have to give him a cushion so they don't get beat wide, giving him space to operate. To summarize, I don't think he will be the complete player Crosby will; I think his game has limitations right now (but that is totally understandable since he is so young); and he will be way too much for his college opponents to handle. Also I think his draft status just got moved up to top 10, maybe top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVCL Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Since this is a kessel/crosby post Crosby is better, but... Bergeron is the better player between the two canucks. I don't care about the couple of years more experience. Crosby will be the next Jagr at best. He's definitely no Gretzky or Lemieux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Uh, yeah, I have seen Crosby play every game. I have seen all but one game in GF. I have cheered for and followed the Canucks the entire tournament. I also predicted that USA would be very lucky to get a medal and that Brian Lee would contribute nothing except for being a solid bench door opener during this tournament. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, you bagged on the USA team before the tourney and then after they beat Russia on Xmas Day you said you couldn't be more wrong in your pre-tourney assessment of the USA team. And now that they aren't playing for the gold you are patting yourself on the back with your pre-tourney prediction - I call that wishy-washy. I imagine your position will be very self-serving if they win the bronze! Btw, predicting Lee's lack of ice time wasn't exactly going out on a limb. As for Kessel/Crosby, they are both very good players, but Crosby is a much more rounded and complete player. Considering that he is near the top of the tourney scoring chart while only skating about ten minutes a game (very short shifts, no penalty kill, etc.) is a testament to the type of player he is. I agree that he has benefitted in part by some sweet passes from his teammates, but I have also witnessed him making some incredible passes, always coming out of the corner with puck, having an innate knack for where the puck will be and always being able to position himself for a goal while in the offensive zone even though everyone on the ice knows that he will hang out around the net, and still no one can stop him. I would guess that if Crosby saw as much icetime as Kessel has he would far and away lead the tourney in scoring. Kessel is also very talented, but is much more one-dimensional. His play in the defensive zone and away from the puck need some work and that will come with time. He put on a show against Sweden, but when he tried making the same moves against a much stronger Russian team, it didn't simply didn't work. That being said, he is going to torment college opponents for a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 For some reason he only plays about 3 minutes a period. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is a clearly an age-related pecking order on the Canadian team. Because of his youth, he doesn't get the icetime the older guys do and he doesn't have to due of their depth. Whereas most teams base icetime on talent, Canada seemingly bases it on age and experience. I bet next year he logs almost as many minutes as Phaneuf has this season. Two-years from now when he is 19 he will likely be tearing up the NHL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanm Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I didn't see the Kessel vs. Crosby thread and posted the comment in another thread before moving it here. One thing I've noticed about Kessel in the WJ's is that he always seem to be trying to dangle (deke, whatever you want to call it) the puck past the defensemen. It worked great against Sweden whose defensemen tried to play the puck, missed, and then watched Kessel go by for a goal. He tried doing that again against Russia, but the Russian defensemen played played the body more than the puck basically neutralizing that move. Based on the Sioux players I've seen come in and try that frequently (ex. Brady Murray), I think he'll find that move won't work as well in college as in junior/USDT play. I'm not saying he won't be a good player. If I'm right, I'm sure he'll adept and find something else that works. I guess I'm not alone since I see others commenting on how his moves didn't work against Russia. You can say Crosby's goals are partly the result of his linemates, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haas! Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Since this is a kessel/crosby post Crosby is better, but... Bergeron is the better player between the two canucks. I don't care about the couple of years more experience. Crosby will be the next Jagr at best. He's definitely no Gretzky or Lemieux. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There we go! I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. I mean Crosby is absolutely incredible but it seems as though his fame is somewhat shadowing Bergeron who btw is without a doubt one of the top 3 forwards in the WJ's IMO. Bergeron is a grind it out player and will have success on the next level when he does so. He's also a great playmaker. As for Kessel/Crosby I think it's a little foolish to think that Kessel is a match for Crosby. Crosby sees the ice like its a videogame and he can see plays FAR before they happen (the sign of a great hockey player). Kessel I think is also very good but still a little young and not quite as mature of a hockey player as Crosby is. It seemed to me that all too often Kessel really forced plays rather than being a little patient and seeing the play develop. To me thats a clear sign of slight immaturity as a hockey player.. But please don't get me wrong Kessel is an awesome player and with a few years of development I think he'll be dominating college hockey. He just needs those few years for experience and development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I just Hope Kessel Fell In Love with the Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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