Classless Mexican Soccer Fans

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Here's an article in the Star Trib. The US lost to Mexico 4-0 in soccer, therefore we won't be at the Olympic games in Athens. Who cares? It's soccer.

This is the part that ticks me off about it...

The trouble was evident from the start. The American national anthem was first booed, then whistled and then drowned out by chants of "Mex-i-co!, Mex-i-co!" In the 26th minute, the throng began chanting "Osama! Osama!" at the Americans.

I say we just go down there and turn it into a glass-bottom parking lot. I think the Houston Texans need more spaces.

[elmduf]

I say we just go down there and turn it into a glass-bottom parking lot. I think the Houston Texans need more spaces.

Maybe that's the attitude that makes countries like Mexico do tasteless cheers like "Osama! Osama". I'm not going to defend the cheer, but look at your attitude. If they don't like us....NUKE THEM??? Calm down buddy....leave the 5 tank divisions and the rest of the marines at the door.

I was watching the game last night in a restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, off the beaten path in a barrio north of the hotel zone. PV is in the state of Jalisco, the state capital is Guadalajara. I was the only gringo in there, and the Mexican's cheered their team and told me it was too bad that both teams couldn't go to the Olympic games. That's the breaks. I also shouted out after the third goal, "Ahora, podemos mirar hockey sobre hielo?". or...Now can we watch ice hockey? They laughed.

I'm not saying what those fans did in Guadalajara was right, but keep a couple of things in mind. We aren't exactly making a lot of friends in the international community right now. Mexico is incredibly into international football...that's their sport and the USA has dominated them recently. Their fans were extremely excited and did and said some stupid things...probably after a good borracheado.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

For all that the U.S. does for Mexico, this is a sad commentary. Their poor citizens stream across our border illegally & receive billions of dollars of free medical care, education & social services--& they in turn wire home $$$ to the tune of 14.5B/year, making this larger than their huge tourism industry. We're supporting Mexico's poor class & we get booed? Talk about ingrates.

Yeah, elmduf, right. It's our arrogant national attitude that causes others to hate us & for this you could care less that a bunch of backwater 3rd worlders cheer "Osama" while the American taxpayer is basically carrying that pathetic, corrupt country on its back. You're not defending the "Osama" cheer but you're also not condemning it either. Sad, sick & disgusting that a fellow American would feel this way. This speaks volumes about your weak American patriotism. Over 3k people died on 09/11--I'm sure surviving family members of that incident would agree with your giving imbecilic Mexican fans a free pass on this one.

[CoteauRinkRat]

When I heard about this, it made me sick to my stomach. I'm so sick of this government giving a free pass to all these illegals in this country. These Mexicans must not understand everything the U.S. does for them as a country.

[elmduf]

This speaks volumes about your weak American patriotism.

Yeah, I guess I should sign that loyalty oath before I come back.

Don't ever questions someone's patriotism in the way you did. Disagreeing with our foreign policy and internal policy is my right as a citizen of the United States. Unless that has changed in the last three weeks since I came to Mexico.

Although I don't have to answer to you, I will let you know that what they did does piss me off. All I am saying is that they were drunk, stupid, jealous of our country and did what they thought would piss us off. Why respond so angrily? That's what they want.

Now, I'm going back to read about Sioux hockey, which is why I came here.

[mksioux]

Typical "Blame America First" garbage. Maybe if we just hand over power to the U.N. like John Kerry wants, then everyone will like us again.

The bottom line is that Mexicans should thank us for allowing their poorest to come into our country, reap all the benefits from our country, and send it all back to Mexico. It's a nice gig if your President Fox...why worry about your domestic problems when you can just ship them to the U.S.A.? Just the first step in "re-claiming" the American Southwest.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

Yeah, I guess I should sign that loyalty oath before I come back.

'Loyalty to what?' is what I'd like to know.

Don't ever questions someone's patriotism in the way you did.

Ever heard of free speech? Don't your buddies at the ACLU preach this or does this concept apply only to liberals? Whenever I come across someone with diluted American beliefs I'll be more than happy to call them like I see them.

[PCM]

In no way do I condone the behavior of the Mexican soccer fans. However, I find it ironic that while some people are offended by anti-American cheers by foreign sports fans, they see no reason why anyone should be offended by obscene cheers at Engelstad Arena. Can you say double standard?

[sioux fan in phoenix]

In no way do I condone the behavior of the Mexican soccer fans. However, I find it ironic that while some people are offended by anti-American cheers by foreign sports fans, they see no reason why anyone should be offended by obscene cheers at Engelstad Arena. Can you say double standard?

I think the double standard argument would apply to an apples/apples situation: such as, we can tell you that your goalie sucks but don't dare say anything about our beloved Brandt. The Mexican fans went outside the realm of sports & chose to cheer for a terrorist who had an indirect hand in the deaths of over 3,000 Americans. I can handle an f-bomb directed at my goalie if he lets in a bad goal but it's a different matter if it's directed at a country that already does so much for them in the first place. Had they decided to just swear at our team's performance & not for a terrorist who has wreaked havoc on this country this thread wouldn't even exist.

I'm not saying that I condone expletives at sporting events because I don't. However, I think a distinction needs to be drawn here between the nature of the expletives.

[BisonMav]

I got in a pretty good debate with my taxi driver in Mexico last spring. It was almost like he was a Martin Sheen or Dixie Chick clone. He said the Mexican people don't like George Bush and the American Government. He said they like the American people. Of course he made his living off American tourist. It almost sounded like they have a fear of the US invading Mexico. What they said was uncalled for. Can you imagine the Mexican economy if the US even did a tourism boycott of Mexico.

[PCM]

The Mexican fans went outside the realm of sports & chose to cheer for a terrorist who had an indirect hand in the deaths of over 3,000 Americans.

That's the way you see it, but I'm sure they see it as good, clean sports fun and helping their team win by intimidating the opposition in any manner they can. And isn't this the exact same reason we're told that profane cheers should be allowed at the REA? Because it helps the team?

I agree 100 percent with the editorial below. And while the fans' behavior at the Sioux hockey games has yet to set "a new standard for imbecilic sports fans," saying that we're not as bad as them certainly isn't much to be proud of, is it?

St. Petersburg Times

Published February 15, 2004

Rant: Mexican soccer fans strike a new low

By PETE YOUNG, Times Staff Writer

Stuffing a stadium for a sporting event frequently brings out the worst. The bounds of good taste are regularly ignored by fans, who often think the purchase of a ticket gives them the right to be a blight on society.

Sometimes drunk individuals hurl vulgar insults or dangerous objects.

Sometimes college students mock players who have endured serious personal problems - a death in the family, etc. - with vicious chants.

What is and isn't proper in these settings can depend on the ear of the listener. Every American, however, must have been appalled by the words of Mexican soccer fans after an Olympic qualifying match between Mexico and the United States on Tuesday in Guadalajara.

According to the Associated Press, "As U.S. players left the stadium for their bus, several fans - some clutching beers - chanted "Osama! Osama!' in reference to al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden."

Surely many Mexicans also were offended by such behavior. And a handful of drunks don't represent a significant part of the population.

This much is certain: Big sporting events tend to evoke boorish behavior, and the folks in Guadalajara that day established a new standard for imbecilic sports fans around the world.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

Nice post, BisonMav:

He said the Mexican people don't like George Bush and the American Government.

I don't understand why they would have a beef with G.W.--he's a globalist neo-conservative who wants to eliminate our borders. Paleo-conservatives who value sovereignty, small government & fiscal responsibility are outraged at him.

It almost sounded like they have a fear of the US invading Mexico.

That's goofy to assume. They're balkanizing our country to the tune of 2,000 illegals/day--they're also driving down wages & destroying the middle class because they'll work for peanuts on the dollar. The construction industry used to be a noble profession until they took it over.

Can you imagine the Mexican economy if the US even did a tourism boycott of Mexico.

Yes, I can. We would have an even bigger flood of them across our borders looking for work here.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

That's the way you see it, but I'm sure they see it as good, clean sports fun and helping their team win by intimidating the opposition in any manner they can. And isn't this the exact same reason we're told that profane cheers should be allowed at the REA? Because it helps the team?

I agree 100 percent with the editorial below. And while the fans' behavior at the Sioux hockey games has yet to set "a new standard for imbecilic sports fans," saying that we're not as bad as them certainly isn't much to be proud of, is it?

PCM:

I have to leave now to pick up my wife at work so I have but a few minutes to respond & probably not very soundly due to my hurriedness. I agree with you that profanity is not to be condoned & I never said it should be. Arizona State bb fans taunted Steve Kerr (former U of A player) at a game shortly after his dad was killed in Lebanon (I think) & I found that deplorable.

I was merely pointing out that there are various shades of gray in the taunting repertoire, some acceptable & good-natured & others vulgar & uncalled-for, & when I refuted your double standard argument earlier I should have clarified that I was not for obscene chants. If you read that article again, you'll notice that the Mexican fans were saying that after the game & not before so I see it as mean-spirited & not just rooting on their team like you stated (because the game was already over)...

[UMDDogz]

In no way do I condone the behavior of the Mexican soccer fans. However, I find it ironic that while some people are offended by anti-American cheers by foreign sports fans, they see no reason why anyone should be offended by obscene cheers at Engelstad Arena. Can you say double standard?

I don't think those two situations are at all related. UND fans are not chanting "Death to all who cheer for the Gophers", or chanting the name of someone who just murdered 3,000 Gophers students. Yes, they were probably drunk (what else do they do in MX), but that doesn't excuse their classless behavior.

[PCM]

I don't think those two situations are at all related. 

You're missing the point. Let's try it this way with a hypothetical rewrite of the editorial I quoted above:

Grand Forks Herald

Published March 3, 2004

Editorial: Duluth fans strike a new low

Stuffing an arena for a sporting event frequently brings out the worst. The bounds of good taste are regularly ignored by fans, who often think the purchase of a ticket gives them the right to be a blight on society.

Sometimes drunk individuals hurl vulgar insults or dangerous objects such as brooms on to the ice.

College students mock players who have endured personal problems - an arrest or an accident or poor grades, etc. - with vicious chants.

What is and isn't proper in these settings can depend on the ear of the listener. Every Sioux fan, however, must have been appalled by the words of Bulldog hockey fans before a game between Minnesota-Duluth and the North Dakota last Saturday in Duluth.

According to the Associated Press, "As North Dakota players arrived in their bus at the DECC, several fans - some clutching beers - chanted 'Pull tabs! Pull tabs!' in reference to Sioux goalie Jake Brandt's misdemeanor conviction last summer."

Surely many Bulldog fans also were offended by such behavior. And a handful of drunks don't represent a significant part of the population.

This much is certain: Big sporting events tend to evoke boorish behavior, and the folks in Duluth that night established a new standard for imbecilic sports fans around the WCHA.

Now I'm sure as a Duluth fan, you'd read such an editorial and think, "Oh, but that was all in good fun. We were just being enthusiastic fans helping our team. Brandt's a two-bit criminal punk and deserves every insult we can think up. He's fair game because he celebrates too much and the Sioux team and their fans always think they're so great. Plus, they play in that $200 million bunker that Ralph the Nazi built for them. Besides, this kind of stuff just goes with hockey. Anyone who objects is a thin-skinned wuss and should be watching shuffle board games instead."

Do you think any of those Mexican soccer fans will apologize for what they said? No, they're just going to use the exact same excuses to rationalize their behavior that you'd use to justify the behavior of Duluth fans and that some Sioux fans use to excuse their boorish behavior.

I am not saying that the "Osama! Osama!" chant is on the same level as "F__k the Gophers!" It's not. However, the reasons fans use to excuse their own behavior are exactly the same.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

Rep. Tancredo demands apology from Mexican Ambassador

[nodakvindy]

Arizona State bb fans taunted Steve Kerr (former U of A player) at a game shortly after his dad was killed in Lebanon (I think) & I found that deplorable.

ASU may have taunted Kerr, but it was Duke that "cheered" in a manner no better than the Mexican fans. During the Duke-Arizona game, the Cameron Crazies were chanting "PLO, PLO" at Kerr. That incident pretty much cemented my lifelong hatred of Duke.