A couple of UND threads on the Tech Board

[mksioux]

Why did the 2 schools stop playing in 2003? Was it because NDSU jumped to the GWC?

Why didn't the 2 schools continue the rivalry even though the conference shift?

Don't beat me up too bad. Just trying to figure it out.

Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest! Books could be written about this issue.

The extremely short version is that NDSU moved up to DI-FCS in 2004 and UND remained DII. UND refused to schedule NDSU. UND moved up to DI-FCS in 2008 and NDSU is now refusing to schedule UND. The reasons will vary widely depending on which side you're talking with.

[Hammersmith]

Why did the 2 schools stop playing in 2003? Was it because NDSU jumped to the GWC?

Why didn't the 2 schools continue the rivalry even though the conference shift?

Don't beat me up too bad. Just trying to figure it out.

Trying to be neutral here(I'm an NDSU alum/fan).

When NDSU moved to DI, it offered UND a 2+2 contract to continue the football games. The games would alternate between the schools with the first at NDSU(it was our turn). The contract was for two years with an automatic renewal for two more if both sides agreed(it was assumed any scholarship advantage would begin to show itself around year three). NDSU's AD sent the contract to UND's under the impression that it was going to be signed. It never was. At the time, the wacky rules to select DII playoff teams actually penalized DII teams that played DI-AA opponents. There were also hard feelings between the schools because NDSU had wanted the NCC to move up as a conference and UND wanted everyone to stay where they were. Beyond that, words were exchanged between some NDSU/UND coaches. The DII playoff rule was changed a year later, but enough damage had been done to the relationship to keep either side from offering an olive branch. Skip ahead a couple years. NDSU had finished its transition and found a new football conference home(MVFC) with eight games a year already scheduled. NDSU likes to play one FBS team a year, so that only leaves two slots open(FCS normally has an 11-game season). Meanwhile, UND reversed its decision to stay DII(new AD and outgoing Pres) and found itself in a five team football conference with seven games to schedule every year. While the UND administration has turned over completely, NDSU still has all the same people from back then and is acting very cautiously. North Dakota politics will not allow NDSU to refuse to play UND forever, but the safe bet is that NDSU will wait until UND is finished with its transition in 2012. It boils down to a "you didn't help us in our transition, we won't help you in your's." It's more than just that(there are real money issues involved), but that's how a lot of people see it.

So SS people, was I fairly objective?

[UND92,96]

Trying to be neutral here(I'm an NDSU alum/fan).

When NDSU moved to DI, it offered UND a 2+2 contract to continue the football games. The games would alternate between the schools with the first at NDSU(it was our turn). The contract was for two years with an automatic renewal for two more if both sides agreed(it was assumed any scholarship advantage would begin to show itself around year three). NDSU's AD sent the contract to UND's under the impression that it was going to be signed. It never was. At the time, the wacky rules to select DII playoff teams actually penalized DII teams that played DI-AA opponents. There were also hard feelings between the schools because NDSU had wanted the NCC to move up as a conference and UND wanted everyone to stay where they were. Beyond that, words were exchanged between some NDSU/UND coaches. The DII playoff rule was changed a year later, but enough damage had been done to the relationship to keep either side from offering an olive branch. Skip ahead a couple years. NDSU had finished its transition and found a new football conference home(MVFC) with eight games a year already scheduled. NDSU likes to play one FBS team a year, so that only leaves two slots open(FCS normally has an 11-game season). Meanwhile, UND reversed its decision to stay DII(new AD and outgoing Pres) and found itself in a five team football conference with seven games to schedule every year. While the UND administration has turned over completely, NDSU still has all the same people from back then and is acting very cautiously. North Dakota politics will not allow NDSU to refuse to play UND forever, but the safe bet is that NDSU will wait until UND is finished with its transition in 2012. It boils down to a "you didn't help us in our transition, we won't help you in your's." It's more than just that(there are real money issues involved), but that's how a lot of people see it.

So SS people, was I fairly objective?

I wouldn't say you weren't being objective, but it seems to me that the only person who can really, truly give UND's side of the story is Roger Thomas. Did he ever give reason for Taylor to think that a contract would be signed? I can't say, because I don't know. I do think it was rather foolish and short-sighted that the two schools ever stopped playing in men's and women's basketball, but the football issue is a complicated one.

[mksioux]

So SS people, was I fairly objective?

As objective as a partisan can be, I suppose. I'd add that another likely reason NDSU refuses to play UND is that they have built up a recruiting advantage over UND due to being in a better conference and some high-visibility wins (most notably against Minnesota a couple years ago). There is little for NDSU to gain by playing UND and a lot to lose. One sure way to lose the advantages they have built up would be to lose to UND head-to-head. I think NDSU will continue to hold out as long as is politically feasible. Everyone seems to think 2012 or 2013, but I'm not so sure. I think NDSU will hold out longer if they can get away with it. (That is, of course, unless UND does something to close the perceived gap, like beating Texas Tech. )

[SiouxMD]

As objective as a partisan can be, I suppose. I'd add that another likely reason NDSU refuses to play UND is that they have built up a recruiting advantage over UND due to being in a better conference and some high-visibility wins (most notably against Minnesota a couple years ago). There is little for NDSU to gain by playing UND and a lot to lose. One sure way to lose the advantages they have built up would be to lose to UND head-to-head. I think NDSU will continue to hold out as long as is politically feasible. Everyone seems to think 2012 or 2013, but I'm not so sure. I think NDSU will hold out longer if they can get away with it. (That is, of course, unless UND does something to close the perceived gap, like beating Texas Tech. )

ROLL THE RAIDERS!

[Shawn-O]

I never get tired of watching that.

I wonder if Rocky still wants to be buried at the 50 yard line at Dacotah Field?

If I ever get my own sports talk show I'm stealing one of Rocky's lines:

[DreamSequence]

...that puts another show in the books...I'd like to thank tonight's guests, Fighting Sioux hockey head coach Dave Hakstol [applause], Minnesota Twins manager Ron Gardenhire [applause], and tennis star Maria Sharapova [wild applause] and "REMEMBER, THE SCOREBOARD HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER TELL US HOW MUCH WE LOVE YOU!". GOODNIGHT, AND SEE YA NEXT TIME! [insert music here...I'm open to suggestions]

[/DreamSequence]

[RaiderMan]

It just occured to me to ask. What's the significance of "ROLL THE RAIDERS"?

[UND92,96]

If I ever get my own sports talk show I'm stealing one of Rocky's lines:

[DreamSequence]

...that puts another show in the books...I'd like to thank tonight's guests, Fighting Sioux hockey head coach Dave Hakstol [applause], Minnesota Twins manager Ron Gardenhire [applause], and tennis star Maria Sharapova [wild applause] and "REMEMBER, THE SCOREBOARD HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER TELL US HOW MUCH WE LOVE YOU!". GOODNIGHT, AND SEE YA NEXT TIME! [insert music here...I'm open to suggestions]

[/DreamSequence]

I like it! I had forgotten just how cheesy Rocky sounded in that NFL Films segment.