cornerhouse901 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 As a graduate of both UND and Toledo I have been looking forward to this one since the schedule came out. The Sioux get to share in some history, since this will be the women's first game in Savage Arena since the completion of a $30 million remodeling project. I am expecting a close game, and a large crowd. Toledo used to be one of the better women's basketball programs. They were in the NCAA tournament 7 times from 1991-2001, and won 3 first round games. They were still good for a couple of years after that, and had a home victory over 4th ranked Duke. Since 2003 they have fallen off the table, with 5 straight losing seasons. Home attendance was just 1700 per game last year. They seem to be playing much better under new coach Tricia Cullop, who was coach of the year last year in the Missouri Valley Conference while at Evansville. This year the Rockets are 2-4 and play at Missouri before facing the Sioux. They beat Arizona and Hawaii before losing 4 straight. Their best player is Naama Shafir, a freshman guard from Israel who averages 18 points a game. She is very quick and likes to drive to the basket. She gets her points on layups and short jumpers and draws a lot of fouls. If it is close at the end she will have the ball. They have two pretty good inside players in Tanika Mays, who has scored 20 points a couple of games this season, and Lisa Johnson who is a good rebounder and has a soft shot. It should be a great game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux2 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Toledo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big10Sioux Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerhouse901 Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Score? Toledo 68-60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Considering Youngblut, Guinn and Bagaason combined for three points, I'm surprised it was only an eight-point margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxdude Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I agree, and I also agree with Coach Roebuck that sometimes you have to have girls in there that will take the ball to the basket if the opponent is in your hip pocket. I'm not sure I would play zone with a minute to go and down 9. I would pickup full and possibly foul, and try hit some threes. Subbing offense and defense at the end made sense, even if we couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, at least you show them that you still have faith in them. We have started so slow offensively in most of the games we have lost that the hole gets too big. We have to be able to score consistently because D1 teams can score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I agree, and I also agree with Coach Roebuck that sometimes you have to have girls in there that will take the ball to the basket if the opponent is in your hip pocket. I'm not sure I would play zone with a minute to go and down 9. I would pickup full and possibly foul, and try hit some threes. Subbing offense and defense at the end made sense, even if we couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, at least you show them that you still have faith in them. We have started so slow offensively in most of the games we have lost that the hole gets too big. We have to be able to score consistently because D1 teams can score. This is a DI team only in title. We are far from a DI team in talent. Please remember that. Here's a question to start some discussion; I know we lose 2 seniors but how many players from this team will the coaches bring back next year? I say, half of them are gone. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxdude Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Could very well happen. Might have to get some JUCO's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedgreen04 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 What JUCO's are better than the girls we have now? You can't tell me that a JUCO could play D1 better than the girls we have now........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spineguy Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 This is a DI team only in title. We are far from a DI team in talent. Please remember that. Here's a question to start some discussion; I know we lose 2 seniors but how many players from this team will the coaches bring back next year? I say, half of them are gone. JMO Playing for a D1 college team is a huge commitment on behalf of the players. It seems you are suggesting that the coaching staff no longer honor the commitments they have made to 5 or 6 of the current players. I wonder how much success UND would have recruiting new and JC players when they and their parents know that this program would be willing to pull their scholarship and discard them. The word would get around and hesitation to get involved in such a program could be expected. The UND program currently has a history of standing by injured and developing players and to deviate from this philosophy now would be wrong to do and would hurt recruiting of new players for years to come. I am going to get radical and suggest that the won/loss record of a team is only one of several ways to measure the success of a team. I am going to respectfully disagree and suggest that next year at this time there will be 11 of the current players and the 4 expected freshmen on the squad. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Playing for a D1 college team is a huge commitment on behalf of the players. It seems you are suggesting that the coaching staff no longer honor the commitments they have made to 5 or 6 of the current players. I wonder how much success UND would have recruiting new and JC players when they and their parents know that this program would be willing to pull their scholarship and discard them. The word would get around and hesitation to get involved in such a program could be expected. The UND program currently has a history of standing by injured and developing players and to deviate from this philosophy now would be wrong to do and would hurt recruiting of new players for years to come. I am going to get radical and suggest that the won/loss record of a team is only one of several ways to measure the success of a team. I am going to respectfully disagree and suggest that next year at this time there will be 11 of the current players and the 4 expected freshmen on the squad. JMO Fair enough. Your thoughts are respected and probably accurate. However, lets throw this thought into the mix. How many times have we come to this site and heard about how the coaches are responsible for the losses of this bball team? In my opinion, way too often. Now for those of you who believe that Roebuck and Co. are the ones hurting this program, wouldn't you want him to replace those who can't play w/others who can? Face it, this team has no chance at playoffs for 4 more years so it really doesn't matter who wears the uniform or not. That being said, next years freshman class will be playoff eligible in their senior year. Shouldn't we open some more scholarships to bring in others who will be a part of that team in 4 years? If we are going to blame the coaches, shouldn't we require change of players first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 What JUCO's are better than the girls we have now? You can't tell me that a JUCO could play D1 better than the girls we have now........... Maybe not a JUCO from the state but, believe me, there are alot of JUCO players out there that would come in here and play right away. Iowa, Wyoming, Texas, and Kansas are great JUCO states. Lots of players who would do just fine in this atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 GF Herald: Rockets, pressure too much for UND The Rockets forced UND into 27 turnovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxdude Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I agree with spineguy. My message was not very well written. I meant for JUCO's to come in and fill in some gaps. My intention was not that our ladies would get cut and lose their scholarship. Although, maybe some of the players will choose not to return on their own like some have in the past. A signicant season doesn't always result in a championship. Our ladies are trying to enjoy their careers and I guess we should respect that. I still had fun when I played, even in games we lost. The journey for this team is going to be significantly different because of the transition to D1, and remember, these girls had NOTHING to say about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I significantly overrated the quality of play at the d2 level, and undervalued the level of play in the jump to d1-even in teams like Toledo or Wyoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxdude Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 The perimeter shooting woes the last few years, IMO, has a lot to do with having great post players, which is a good problem to have. I think the strategy of the team is to get the ball inside. If this is the case, when they catch the ball, they are not thinking about pulling the trigger, they are looking inside. Then, sometimes, Kimbrough or Ledger isn't open, and the perimeter player is open, so it is a second thought, and they miss. Some players have to be told that they have the green light to shoot ANYTIME they are open no matter how much time is on the shot clock so they relax more and they don't think so much. We held Toledo in the 40's with 10 minutes to go. That is pretty good defense against a D1 school with some tradition. Our offense on the other hand had only scored in the 20's or 30's. I know we had a lot of turnovers, but how many were committed trying to thread the needle, or reverse the ball to get it inside. Kimbrough is an All-American and she is going to do well as is Ledger, but just think how much more dangerous they would be if our perimeter players would relax and do what we have seen them do in the past so many times. When we ran that play when Youngblut shoots the 3, she does well on it because she knows before hand that she gets to shoot it, so she relaxes and strokes it. It's frustrating sometimes, so I can't imagine how frustrating it is for the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandforksioux Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I think you've got it siouxdude the offense is so revolved around getting it in to the post right now that the perimeter players are not just playing they are focused on looking inside with every touch. Kimbrough is a great post and deserves many touches every game but they will come and the perimeter players just need to play the game and not be overly focused on looking inside, they need to take what is there, if it is the 3 or drive or drive and dish or rotating the ball. They all seem to stiff and need to relax and play with more energy that seems to be lacking. We have to have Guinn, Youngblut, and Baagason score for us to be successful. It was nice to see Seay had a nice game Saturday if we get that type of play from the other 3 we will win our share of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND Ball Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I think you've got it siouxdude the offense is so revolved around getting it in to the post right now that the perimeter players are not just playing they are focused on looking inside with every touch. Kimbrough is a great post and deserves many touches every game but they will come and the perimeter players just need to play the game and not be overly focused on looking inside, they need to take what is there, if it is the 3 or drive or drive and dish or rotating the ball. They all seem to stiff and need to relax and play with more energy that seems to be lacking. We have to have Guinn, Youngblut, and Baagason score for us to be successful. It was nice to see Seay had a nice game Saturday if we get that type of play from the other 3 we will win our share of games. I watched the game on Toledo's webcast and Guinn, Bergan, Youngblut and Baagason had lots of open looks and even had plays set up for them and they didn't score. The players that played in the second half and were in at the end of the game didn't seem to have a problem scoring - - the fact is each player has to approach every game mentally and focused ready to play. If not, it sounds like the coaching staff will play players that are. If players can't accept that, they should go to small school where they don't receive a $15,000 scholarship yearly and play. The turnovers from the Toledo game were not caused from trying to get the ball inside, they were caused from lack of fundamental play and focus. Certainly not something you think would come from players that have been in the program for more than 1 year. Let's hope they continue on competing and those that do will continue to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux2 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I agree that the outside shooting is an issue, but I don't think it's because they are so focused on getting it into the posts. As has been said many times, it has plagued us for years. Sometimes shooters can be streaky or going through a funk. I haven't researched the stats, but it doesn't seem like we are taking a whole lot less outside shots than before, we are just shooting a poorer percentage right now. When you've got Kimbrough averaging 60 some percent FG shooting, how can you not look for that. It seems hesitation is more of a problem, because it affects shooting and it also plays a part when they miss the post player cutting or do it too late. There have been a lot of unforced turnovers (dribbling off the leg must've happened about 4 times in Toledo) so I have to agree I don't so much think its an issue that they HAVE to get it inside. We do need everyone to contribute however and consistantly. Hopefully that will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxdude Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 A 60% shooter is hard to ignore, but I know how perimeter players think, and on this team they may be thinking: If I don't make this shot, will I get pulled because I was supposed to get it inside. I have played with great post players myself, and until the coach told me to just take the shot when I was open and not worry about who else is open, then I shot much better. It's a GREAT problem to have: an All-American post player, but if we are going to compete at this level, we need to be hitting on ALL cylinders and not just having Kimbrough getting her 20 plus per game. I did not watch the Toledo game, so thanks to ND Ball for sharing. Sounds like the Razorbacks are going to be very tough! GO SIOUX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I significantly overrated the quality of play at the d2 level, and undervalued the level of play in the jump to d1-even in teams like Toledo or Wyoming. I think the struggles of this season are a combination of this year's version of the Sioux being probably below average compared to most other Roebuck-coached teams of the past 20 years, and a reasonably tough schedule. It appears there's no shortage of weak dI women's teams just like there's no shortage of weak dII teams: link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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