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(Was going to call the big classes bulges, but I didn't want to title a thread: comparing the bulges.) Kermit had this insightful post in the Murray thread: ------------------------ The Sioux were a decent team in 2001-2, and they weren't far from being a very good team. Several of the freshmen had very good years. Bochenski and Schneider were outstanding. Schneider, Jones, and Fuher ranked 2,3, and 4 on the team among d-men in plus/minus. The team had some excellent goal scorers (Bayda, Skarperud, Bochenski), but lacked a great playmaking center. The biggest problem was in goal where Andy Kollar had a very disappointing year. I also thought that the senior defensemen (Mazurak and Schneekloth) regressed that year. The next group of incoming freshmen has at least as much talent, but much less experience than the 01-02 group. Chris Fournier played FOUR years in the USHL, Brian Canady 3, Andy Schneider 2+, Nick Fuher 2, James Massen 2, etc. Maybe that explains why some of these guys didn't improve as much AFTER coming to UND. ------------------------ This got me thinking about taking a closer look at the two classes. Here are comparisons of the players' ages (The age shown is the player's age on September 1st of the year they entered school.): Forwards: 21.1 Canady 20.5 Faul 19.6 Connelly 19.6 Massen 19.6 McMahon 19.4 Bochenski 19.4 Fournier 19.9 AVERAGE 20.5 Martens 20.1 Duncan 19.6 Miller 19.2 Kozek 18.8 Watkins 18.7 Oshie 17.3 Toews 19.2 AVERAGE The difference in the average age works out to about 8.5 months, which is pretty significant. A more telling observation is that four players in the 2005 class would be the youngest player in the 2001 class. Defense: 20.5 Fuher 20.1 Schneider 18.1 Jones 19.5 AVERAGE 20.7 Alexander 18.6 Jones 18.4 Lee 18.3 Chorney 19.0 AVERAGE Although the difference in the average is only six months, it's pretty clear that the 2001 class had two seasoned players and one relative pup, while the 2005 class has three pups and one older player. Overall, I agree that the 2005 class has perhaps greater potential than the 2001 class, but it might not be realized in the first year, due to the relative youth and inexperience of the 2005 players. As to the quality of the team the classes are moving into, Kermit nailed the comparison. In 2001-02 both Bayda and Skarperud finished in the top five in WCHA scoring. In addition, very solid and dependable forwards like Lundbohm, Notermann and Spiewak were present. The current returning group (knock on wood) of Zajac, Stafford, Spirko, Prpich, Porter and Fabian compares favorably, but it's close. On defense, Schneekloth, Mazurak, Hale and Leinweber returned. The preseason view was that this was a solid base to work in three newcomers. It didn't work out that way, as Hale's health issues and Schneekloth's and Mazurak's spotty seasons forced a baptism by fire for the freshmen. As trying as that was, the returning group in 2005 is even more questionable. (I personally expect the NHL to fix its issues, with Greene pursuing his career, and Bina to be unavailable this year.) That would mean the returning players would be Smaby (a rock), Radke (not far from a freshman himself) and Marvin and Foyt (more forwards now than defensemen). This time around, we know the kids will be required to play significant roles. Unfortunately, they'll all be just 18, rather than 20 as Schneider and Fuher were. Fortunately, they might ultimately be more talented overall. The big difference, as Kermit noted, is that UND has two very capable goaltenders for 2005, which should help alleviate the main problem with the team in 2001-02. The last point of comparison for me is that the league overall seems much tougher in 2005 than 2001. CC, Denver, MN and Wisconsin all look very tough, with all the lower tier teams (save perhaps SCSU) seemingly able to beat anyone on any weekend as well. The coaching staff has a big, big job ahead of it next year. It will be frustrating at times, but also fun to watch the potential.

I understand that David Hale turned down very solid first-round bonus money to return for his junior year at UND, largely because he wanted to get the prgram back on track after a disappointing season in 2001-02. The big problem that has bitten the Sioux in the last few years is professional offers that sunset for one reason or another. Parise's choice was to take a big bonus (close to $1 million?) or wait for at least a season for what would almost certainly be a smaller bonus. Hard to say "no" when the offer expires soon, with no idea what a future offer might include. Murray faced a similar dilemma. I don't understand the specifics of the Swiss league eligibility issue, but on the surface it appears that he either took this offer now or nothing later, as it wouldn't be available to him later. It's disappointing, as I had hoped he would stylistically be the heir to Jeff Panzer, but totally understandable. I wish him well. I have thought for a while that UND since the new arena was built has turned into Michigan. Terrific high-level recruits, regularly nationally competitive, but falling short at the end, partly because of a lack of experienced impact players. UND's top line has had the following makeup in the last few years: 2002-3 freshman, sophomore, other 2003-4 freshman, sophomore, junior 2004-5 freshman, freshman, sophomore I think the near-term and medium-term future is bright, but this will continue to be a drag on UND and other top programs.

Nicely done, The Sicatoka. I had done the work and was about to type it up when I checked one last time, and you had beat me to it. Seeing Walski in your post reminded me to check Alexander, who wore #2 last year for the Jets.

That's it! Fire Hakstol.

Fair enough, but which shoulder (and I don't mean right or left). Both Murray and Miller had shoulder surgery, and Prpich was rumored to need it after the season.

Yttrium has had solid info on Oshie going back to the beginning, so I personally consider it to be prettly likely. Thanks for the info, and good luck to Oshie. I think he's going to turn into a terrific player: a rare combination of strength and hands. Just needs to get a little quicker IMO.

I don't disagree about Oshie being better in years 2-5. I have only included him based on word here on the SS board (didn't you know that everything you read on the internet is true?) that he was likely to come in this Fall. It's fine with me either way. As CouteaRinkRat says, I'll trust the coaches on this one.

I expect Stafford back, but I'm not as certain as you. We don't know what the professional hockey landscape will look like with a new CBA, so it's hard to be sure what will happen. There may be a rush of signings; there may be few. I just know that with a first-round draft choice, the risk is always present.

There were 13 forwards on last year's roster. In the Final Five, Murray, Kaip and Prpich were out, and Fabian was hurt but played anyway (I think). That's 4 down, leaving 9 forwards and a few converted defensemen. I think 13 is too few by about two. Aside from the regular injury concerns, I think the Sioux forward roster has three specific risks: Stafford leaving early, Kaip suffering another concussion, and Miller's shoulder rehabilitation not being complete by the Fall (although maybe this is already fine, and I'm just not aware an a distant observer). With all 15 forwards present and healthy, playing time would be a tricky issue. My preliminary guess is that these guys are "regulars': Prpich Murray Porter Stafford Spirko Zajac Toews That leaves 5 spots for 8 players: Fabian Kaip Duncan Kozek Mertens Miller Oshie Watkins Again, without seeing anyone play, my first guess is that the guys most at risk for sitting in the stands are Fabian, Kaip, Mertens and Miller. It's hard to see Fabian, who was not far from being Frozen Four MVP, and Kaip, who was a promising regular, on this list, so maybe my first guess is not a good one at all. It should be interesting to watch, and unfortunately injuries will make the coaches' decisions a little easier.

Sorry I can't add any info, but I do recall that the rumor was that he was going to play next year in the USHL and then try to walk on.

Martens played two years in the MJHL, at age 16 and 17, before moving on to the BCHL for two more years. 2001-02 Selkirk Steelers 59 GP 5-13-18 2002-03 Selkirk Steelers 57 GP 19-30-49 However it works out at UND, I've got to feel good for a kid who has stuck with his (assumed) goal of playing NCAA hockey, and finally made it. Edit: Martens was picked by Swift Current in the 9th round (157 overall) of the 2000 WHL Bantam Draft.

A little perspective on Martens. His DOB is 3-10-85, so he's about 4 months older than Duncan, and more than a year older than Watkins and Kozek. His numbers obviously don't compare too favorably with the other three: Kozek 60 GP 48-49-97 Duncan 57 GP 48-43-91 Watkins 60 GP 36-38-74 Martens 60 GP 22-40-62 However, when you consider the teams they played on, and Quesnell was lousy, his numbers look a little brighter. With Martens' 62 points, he contributed to 35% of Quesnell's 177 goals scored. Here's how that compares: Kozek 39% of 246 Martens 35% of 177 Duncan 34% of 268 Watkins 32% of 232 One last note: His hometown is listed as Selkirk, MB, which makes him another Canadian prairie kid headed to UND. He's 20 now, so I'm sure the coaches have seen him play more than a few times in the last five years.

I searched the GF Herald site for "Marto" to see if there was a story about the USHL draft, and I found that the kid must indeed be a heck of an athlete. In the last week, these are the mentions in the paper: May 6: Jake Marto had three hits and Brandon Kreitinger got the complete-game victory in Game 2. May 8: Marto was 6-for-8 with a home run and Dan Cary 4-for-7 on the day for the Knights. May 11: Jake Marto was the winning pitcher and also went 3-for-4 at the plate. May 13: Grand Forks Central's Jake Marto was the second overall pick in Thursday's United States Hockey League draft.

I would highly doubt that Alexander would play in the USHL next year. UND needs him now. My guess is that he is coming because Bina got injured. If we assume the NHL finally gets going and Greene pursues his pro career, and Bina is unavailable for 2005-06, the Sioux defense roster looks like this: Smaby Radke Chorney Jones Lee Marvin Foyt While I really appreciate the roles Marvin and Foyt play for the team, they were the 8th and 9th defensemen last year for a reason. This roster is just plain short, so another guy is needed for next year. I have thought all along they might add a 21-year old from Canada, because he would at least be physically mature. You can't have FOUR 18-year-old defensemen. So they picked up Alexander. (Fargo's almost Canada, right?) It's probably better to add a guy like Alexander, who has at least been through the wars in juniors for a few years, than to mess up the development timetable for guys like Hardwick and Ammerman. Alexander might not be a blue-chipper, but the staff is in a bit of a bind when they need to go defenseman shopping in April. I'm sure they've followed him and think he can help. [Handyman, are you reading? He's from Armstrong. Do you know anything about him?] Welcome aboard, Todd. You probably grew up wanting to be a Gopher. Now you get to relish beating them.

Sorry to be so dense, but does that mean at UND starting in the Fall of 2005 or 2006? Thanks.

Oilers' reps go on to say they really, really, really want Matt playing pro hockey next year. In my opinion, he has physically dominated college hockey and I can see why Edmonton would wish that. Of course, they can have their wishes and I can have mine, which is that he would return for his senior year.

If I'm reading this right, Zach just missed a penalty shot with 1:25 left in the third against the Ukraine. The game ended in a 1-1 tie. SOG were 39-9 US.

This is from a Q&A at USCHO regarding Jeff Jackson being hired as Notre Dame's new head coach: ---------------------------- Q: Of course, the obligatory question is, what is your favorite memory? Obviously, you won the two championships, but is there something outside of that, a moment that really captures the essence of your time at Lake Superior? A: It may stick out just because of recent events. In my first year

Believe it or not, that was the only home game that season that I missed a part of. I had to work and got there about halfway through the game. In the interest of the team (as I know they must have been worrying about me, hence the performance), I was never late again.

sprig, I saw that picture quite a while ago and got a kick out of it. Around the same time someone commented that they were going to paint the golden arches in the crease so he would feel at home there. Good stuff, but I'd love to see Reaney come to UND and succeed.

Surrey's loss means that all of the committed Sioux recruits are done playing hockey in the 2004-05 season. 38 pages in this thread following the future Sioux. Wow. Here is how their teams finished: Toews - SSM won the national midget title. Miller - Green Bay failed to qualify for USHL playoffs. Duncan - Salmon Arm lost in the second round of the BCHL playoffs. Watkins -Vernon lost in the BCHL finals. Kozek - Surrey won the BCHL playoff title, then lost to AJHL champion Camrose. VandeVelde - Moorhead was the MN state HS Class AA runner-up. Oshie - Warroad was the MN state HS Class A champion. Jones - The US Under-18 team won its World Championship. Chorney - SSM won the national midget title; also played on the champion US Under-18 team Lee - Moorhead was the MN state HS Class AA runner-up. Marto - GF Central was the ND state HS runner-up. It was a lot of fun following the recruits, and I'm sure next year will be fun as well, with perhaps a bigger focus on the USHL. For many of us (myself included), most of these guys are just numbers and letters on a page or screen. It'll be great to get to know them as players over the next few years.

I hadn't gone through all those pictures until now. Thanks to the photographer who did a marvelous job with them. Unfortunately, now I'm mad all over again. How many of those pictures are of Mannino making saves or with the puck bouncing around in front of him? Argh. It's also interesting that there are no pictures of Porter without a Pioneer between him and the glass. Devsrule, I may have met you a few hours after the title game in the computer room at the Holiday Inn. I was the frustrated Sioux fan reading USCHO when you came in to print boarding passes. If that was you. Either way, nice job with the pictures.

Athough it was a tough penalty to take at the time, Greene crosschecked BC's Bertram right in front of the net while the Sioux were already killing a penalty. The photo of the aftermath of this hit was on USCHO's front page the next day. Although it was very nasty, it was one of those crease-clearing hits that the NHL guys on ESPN basically condoned as needed in front of the net. You could see Bertram on the ice immediately afterward, wondering exactly where he was: "let's see, I was standing in front of the net trying to corral a loose puck, and now I think I'm lying face first on the ice ... am I still alive?" Anyway, I don't think Bertram got close enough to the crease the rest of the game to even tell you what color it was.

I still think there is not much of a gap between the two players, even as collegians. Size is valued by professional and college scouts for a reason, as big players who can skate can do things that smaller players cannot. Someone described hockey as a bunch of footraces to the puck and wrestling matches for the puck. Bigger guys win more wrestling matches. I was in awe of some of Zach's shifts, but the fact is that the defenders he was wearing did diminish his effectiveness. I saw Zajac able to fight through checks that would have slowed Parise down, which is why I think he is a similar caliber player, despite having a slightly lower skill level.

I appreciate your thoughtful post but respectfully disagree that it was so clear Denver was the best team at the end of the year. (Going on memory on the seeds here, so might be off a bit:) In the tournament, Denver struggled with the #15 seed and had a tough game with #8 before dispatching #3 relatively easily. UND simply dominated the tournament's overall #1, #4 and #10 seeds. Going into the final game, UND in fact was playing the best hockey of any team in the country. As for the final game, if that game was enough for Denver to clearly demonstrate they were playing the best hockey, if they were that dominant, then we just have different standards for that conclusion. I have yet to read a game story that failed to mention how brilliant Mannino was in goal for Denver; a goalie doesn't get the chance to be brilliant if his team dominates a game. I can agree that Denver was a great team, and they played especially well with the lead, but halfway through the third period the game was 2-1, and the two Denver goals bounced in off a skate and Stastny's butt. Don't misunderstand, Denver was a deserving champion. They got the bounces, their goaltender played great, they tightened up defensively with the lead (allowing UND just 45 shots on goal), and most importantly they scored more goals than UND. However, I don't think they were CLEARLY playing the best hockey in the country at the end of the year.